My last lvl 50 warrior fought three different clerics a total of eight times. No deaths on either sida (my lard@$$ means I can't run fast enough
) However' date=' six out of eight times the clerics ran for the hills.[/quote']
Weapon Lock is a pain for a Cleric. You know why, but we cannot talk why.
As is Mino charge...
As is someone who decides to pick up some saves.
And running for the hills is not a winning. It is losing consumables. The Cleric flight 1/35 charges and your sanctuaries, herbs and other things.
This used to be a great way to get kills. Attrition of consumables. Glimmering stave changed that. Herbs to.
Auto things work for evil and good Clerics.
If anything the most dangerous cleric is a Elven Combat Cleric armed with a Mindflayer. A goodie.
Close by with a Combat Duergar very secret stuff.
Calm, the spell.
weapon lock? really?
wow, I never really have much issue with it.
ACTUALLY! Weapon lock has killed more warriors than not fighting my cleric.
and I am sorry, I find a certian holy hands to be the buffest if geared right for it
Evil clerics however.. so little skill involved in just a couple spells/auto things..
pick for me a class that doesnt have just a few things that must fall into place for a victory? lso using different configurations, holy hands vs a weapon, intervention vs some spell, do you go for dispels? or stack spells? chekcing their spells for duration, knowing when to flee, all these take the "skill" word you so easily throw around.
God... I hate how people like to replace habits developed over time for skills. Choking someone out with their own arm... skill. Knowing to mash a certain combination of keyboard keys... learned behavior.
In my opinion, Clerics are MORE than fine. Shamans even more so. I mean... I've personally done thousands of hp worth of damage to a cleric before... that was furied, dirted, and insect swarmed. Casually walked away (I don't care what anyone says chasing is 1 part knowledge to 3 parts luck/guessing) and came back a tick later at full health. I mean, yeah that is their thing... but all the while I'm dealing with the nigh on 100% accurate minister...which despite my saving it on every tick STILL screwed my managain (which is completely broken in my opinion... I save... but I still don't get my mana...). I mean... clerics are borderline unkillable and all the while you are busy wondering why your save saved you a little lag... Oh wait... did I mention that a communer that heals as well as anything else except a healer is also lagging you with a spell that lands as often as it rains in the summer in florida (in case you were wondering I've actually set clocks by the summer rains down here)? Honestly Mya... less QQ more...roll something that isn't a cleric...
pick for me a class that doesnt have just a few things that must fall into place for a victory? lso using different configurations' date=' holy hands vs a weapon, intervention vs some spell, do you go for dispels? or stack spells? chekcing their spells for duration, knowing when to flee, all these take the "skill" word you so easily throw around.[/quote']
I'm sorry, I should have put it this way: It's the easiest class to PK with and requires absolutely no skill on my part. It may require some other people, however, to be very cautious and/or use that skill word.
requires absolutely no skill on my part.
Wow. Just...wow.
I also agree that minister shouldn't stop managain, especially not with a successful save. It should also be much more difficult to land. Evil clerics getting a chance to lag without lagging themselves is more than enough for any one spell.
Some holy hands are WAAAAAY better than other ones.
Portal can be used offensively, not only defensively! I'd still much, much, much rather have minister.
Basically evil clerics get the better spells (cut mana gain/lag and get good mals).
Turn undead should be much more difficult to save against...this is pretty much a worthless spell (why is it two rounds of lag?).
Why don't good clerics get earthquake?
Wow. Just...wow.
Being honest here. it's so easy for me to kill with evil clerics, I simply can't get over it. 
Dang, I'm trying to read this thread, but there's a big e-peen in the way.
Don't you mean Wiipeen
...
Please don't give good clerics that idea. I've seen on do it (pretty sure he was an old school 1.0 playing in 2.0) and it wasn't pleasant
I won't say more because, as someone said, this is turning into something other than a meaningful dicussion. If anyone wants tips on cleric killing I'm happy to talk via PM or put them on another thread.
L-A
You all suffer from the disease named "I'm allergic to saves.".
Get saves, all spells unlike Skills can be saved. Well except rust.
And a Vamp having problems with evil Cleric?
Afraid of Path? (which does not hit a vuln)
Afraid of TurnUndead? (which they do not get)
And even I can cure Poison/Plague with consumables.
You just need a very LARGE backpack.
What you need is someone to roll up a Shaman Syndicate Death and start killing all that moves. 16 hours plague FTW!!!
Hysteria.
Mya, you've obviously not got a clue. I've more experience then most with vampires, and I can tell you, an evil cleric is much much more potent against against them then a good cleric, which, IMHO, is rediculous. I've never died to a goodie cleric as a vampire, EVER.
Yeah, I am afraid of path. Why, because minister is, IMHO, more powerful then another other lagging ability. It doesn't lag the user, AND guess what, it lags you at those most PERFECT times, right when you sanc drops, leaving you up for 4 lags of *** whoopin, this is enough to kill you if your unsanced, unless your in absolutely perfect health. Jibber can attest to this I am sure, it is how Nyra got captures on Philantees, on more then one occassion. So yeah, I am afraid of path, when I am unsanced and lagged for four rounds.
Minister is also PARTICULARLY devasting against a vampire, for a myriad of other reasons.
I will agree with L-A when he says a meelee should do alright vs clerics. I used to do well vs clerics with warriors. Get them hurting and sometimes you could get lucky and kill them in charge lag as they went to try cure. If you cant lag them though, good luck. Vampires are completely different. You are reliant on some spells, you have limited mana and I am 99.999% sure that vampires have been tweaked to make spells less effective, sometime between Azaghtoth and now. Add spell turning to this, and limited mana supplies (of which minister has an uncanny ability to massacre) and you're in alot of trouble.
I'll agree with Celerity, turn undead is near on useless. And poor purity clerics take the shaft with their divine intervention. I've tried using it, it is bloody useless.
I don't know what the deal is, but your always trying to fabricate reasons to strengthen the class your playing Mya (ie, pretty much primarily clerics). Evil clerics don't need anything, infact, I think they need a step backwards. Sermon is the prime reason for this.
Philantees was dressed quite well in saves
And sermon's duration is ridiculous. Not to mention that you get to lose mana even if you save.
Yes, I had killer saves. I had to have about -70svsmental (as well as resistance to mental) just to keep myself ALIVE vs evil clerics. What this meant, my hit/dam took a serious hammering, and save VERY VERY VERY lucky circumstances, I had no real chance to kill evil clerics. I didn't have the burst damage output to nail them when they were hurting.
It was because of Nyra that I equipped in saves.
Ah well, I am going back to my cave.
Dang' date=' I'm trying to read this thread, but there's a big e-peen in the way.
yeah jibber's got quite the ego, if reality set in he would probably combust, so lets leave him alone haha.
Feel free to PM me with Cleric killing tips L.A.
I've played so many shamans, and not a single evil cleric. Guys are making me want one. 
Will be vacation time for a couple of you guys soon if you go on like this.
Will be vacation time for a couple of you guys soon if you go on like this.
but it is entertaining
Make minister lag random, not just at the top of the hour. Make it happen no more than once every tic, but sometimes it might skip a tic and hit randomly on the next.
No, it is good as it is, just make the mana regen normal if you save it. The current duration and the fact that it stops mana regen even if you save it is ridiculous.
but it is entertaining
It's entertaining until it's you who have half the forum taking pot shots at you.
Minister is also PARTICULARLY devasting against a vampire' date=' for a myriad of other reasons.[/quote']
Ack--why didn't I think of that? Duh.