Adjustment to current forum rules

Direct copy and paste from my Philantees thread, however, in a more suitable forum. I had received a couple of PM's supporting the idea, but noone actually posted. Please, if you've anything to say about it, please speak up. Hopefully, we can have a nice mature conversation about the topic.

I would also like to bring one final thing to light. That is the current ruling and procedure over discussion of qclass/race and cabal skills and abilities. Now sure, some things should be sacred, however, I have been forum banned twice recently for what I consider minor infringements, if not crossing the line at all. My opinion on this matter is this. 90-95% of the players here well full well anything that I might be willing to tell them about, for example, vampires. The other 5-10% are newbies, who, quite frankly, would be getting trod all over by standard classes that they have ready access to, let alone quest classes/races. I am almost certain this would be rather disheartening for them. Sure, they could spend the time in working all this out, which, I can tell you know, will take thousands of hours. Herein lies the problem. The generation of people that play games like this are now aging. They are no longer at school, most are now finishing college studies or are beyond. Young people would rather go play wow, or some other graphical game. The generation that found enjoyment in muds now have alot less time on their hands. They cant spend thousands of hours learning a mud, working out how to be competitive in PK. This I think is why we still see the same old people. Very few new people come and stay. You might say 'but, the moderate tier, it is the answer'. No, it is not. It does not hasten this process at all. Learning everything will still take thousands of hours. I would suggest that perhaps these rules be looked at and perhaps overhauled. I do not mean revealing the inner workings of every skill, however, discussion of skills and well known means to help combat them, I feel, should not be outlawed. Discussions of armor, what areas certain things can be found in, which armors are good against which classes (even ID's of armors wouldn't be out of the question, imho, telling someone exact directions where to find a mob with the armor, yes, now that is probably going too far. Half the enjoyment is in getting a group together and exploring these unknown places) etc etc also shouldn't be taboo topics. These suggestions are of absolutely no benefit to me, so I am not suggesting them for personal gain. I think they would be in the interest of the MUD.

Signed.

The most relevant point here IMO is that new players suffer the most from this. Seasoned vets who have played a majority of the q things spent HOURS upon HOURS to get there and learn the stuff. Many who have not played all the q things have at least fought a lot of them and learned what they can do by seeing it first hand.

Now there are three choices when it comes to learning about the mysterious powers that are not to be discussed.

1. Spend a hundred hours getting a q thing.

2. Check the forums

3. Find out via AIM (or any equivalent)

So the best way obviously is #1 but let's face it, it would probably take years to play a demon, a vampire, an undead, a lich, a crusader, a psion, an avatar, each kind of cleric, and join all the cabals. I would say the vast majority have not and will not ever do this. #2 will get you banned and is just not going to happen according to divine mandates. #3 is the EASIEST way to find out anything about FL. Since most new players are brought in by word of mouth anyway (I am guessing) they are just going to ask their friend outside the game "hey buddy, so what is that vamp going to do to me, or why are undead able to do that to me etc etc etc."

My point is that most people know anyway. One Halloween madness can solve the cleric DI and HH mysteries for you, joining a subcabal will let you read help files on all the skills right up to L. SOME cabals allow you to read the help files for both subcabals, others do not. Playing a psion once will let you read about the 3 paths skills, and im guessing a crusader can have access to the help files for all the selectable skills whether chosen or not.

The only people who are gonna be clueless are those who stumbled across the game through TMS or some other equivalent. Now these are the ones we NEED most. Friends of friends can get comforted IRL after a harsh kill/loot. Experienced players who are addicted will eventually come back despite why they quit. It is those precious and valuable unknown newbies that we need to keep, and they are the most in the dark.

Now I know some of you will say right away "There is no rule about sharing information about the game IN GAME." Yes you are right, if you want to know how to beat that ask around in game. Sounds good on paper until you log in and find 5 people on the who list and get some cryptic answer at best.

Same thing exactly applies to the location and stats of items.

I say let it all out of the bag. Sure some people spent countless hours figuring it out themselves and databasing armor in excell etc...But a lot of those people WANT to share what they know on the forums. Look at Oblivion for example. You can get on the internet and find out anything you want. How to do certain quests, where to find certain armor, everything is revealed, from the smallest bit of info to the greatest spoilers. It does not make the game any worse. All it does is allow each player to decide how much they want to learn in game and how much they want to learn out of game.

If there was nothing sacred, if everything was allowed to be posted on the forum, I do not think it would hurt the game one single bit. There will still be some players who out RP all the rest, some players will still be better PKers than all the others. Knowing what a skill does or what stats armor has and where to find it does not = getting it and knowing how to use it.

I know where a lot of uber eq is, but until I lead a party through deso myself I will not be able to get it or know how to actually get it. I also know what undead and vampires etc can do to me, but they still do it and with success. At least I do not have the added frustration of HOLY S*&T wtf just happened to me, screw this game I'm gonna go play ******.

I would say that malforms should be the only secret truly kept because that is probably the HARDEST thing to find out without actually doing it.

I just dont know what people are worried about?!? Do you think we'd see an influx of power gamers rolling killer combos once they knew what each DI did? News Flash, some people will powergame anyway, others wont. That wont change based on access to information.

I agree with this, mainly because I kind of fit into the least played category on there. I knew about the game for 10 years, but never had any friends that I knew IRL etc who even wanted to play it. And now coming back and devoting time into it after such a huge break (like 1.0 to a few months ago break) It would be nice just to have access to all the help files. Equipment would be a bonus, But just being able to read the help files would at least give me something to go on.

Oh, and I rolled a healer so I'm working on discovering things myself. It's still hard, soloing as a healer is harder than I thought it would be. Hehe

/signed

I must be in the minority, or is it majority? (I see another controversial poll here!) That find the mystery associated with abilities, areas and remaining topic in the OP, allow the game to remain fun and fresh.

People will still need to explore to find the EQ, as I said, I think think exact directions should be given. Assistance on what eq offers mals to help fights shamans (at the moment, about all you can mention is non-rare stuff) etc wouldn't be a stupid idea. Mentioning what area things can be found in, I also dont think is silly. If its gear, winter, deso, discord, you still need to get a group and explore these areas to find the EQ.

If you know a bit about qclass skills, doesn't mean you get to use them does it? You still need to expend the effort to get that qrace/class to use the named skills.

I don't mean hand feed people everything, but a bit of general discussion on these topics, I feel would be very helpful in getting new players interested.

Come to a forum and see people discussing tactics and stuff to kill that seemingly indominable qclass. Sure take my fancy more then rocking up and seeing a nazi like regime in which you cant mention a word.

This is all IMHO. I don't mean reveal every secret of the game.

I wish I had access to more information. I found FL by checking out all the top 20 muds after the mud I'd played for ages closed. Ever since I've been here I've struggled tremendously with the lack of available information. Yes, I try to seek out things in game on a constant basis, and if I was able to play 12 hours a day I might feel like I was making in dent in all the things I was seeking answers to. Basically, I just had to resign myself to the fact that I'll never know about a large percentage of the game. It's okay now, I'm over it and trying to focus on learning just a few very specific things.

Sometimes I still wish there was someone I knew in RL that also played FL that I could ask questions.

I am really a fan of allowing this type of thing myself. If you know that adeptus torso is +X/X hit dam, its not gonna reveal any information on how to actually get it. Knowing that does shocking grasp to you would not be overpowered. Opening the reins would improve gameplay, but maybe it would shift it to more of a gear oriented WoW-like zone running event. But offering some increased knowledge of armor would not help. I mean hell if you been here 6 months, bracer of torment sounds awesome, Planar blade is the godliest thing ever, and you want Elfsmasher. At least we can save them some time. Espescially the poor newb who gets that l33t mask in the underdark. Poor bastards.

stamps half a seal of approval on the idea

Here's my take, though.

Quest class/race stuff SHOULD be off limits. If you really, really, REALLY feel like you need to know something, you should have to work to get it and play it. Or if you're overly frustrated in PK, take it to the prayer forum for tips. I don't believe the IMMs would give you the cold shoulder.

But let's NOT bring the Qclass/race stuff to the forums/keep it vague because the mystery/excitement is what keeps some people going. Same with cabal skills. Same with tatts.

You go and lay out a walkthrough guide for things, does someone really appreciate it? Sure, maybe they do, but if it took them TIME to work it out, there's other things to get hooked on. More to see. More to learn. There's PLENTY of information around. Like Reccum said, someone could hop on AIM.

This forum environment protects a minority. I like that. It also forces people to put time into the game. Experience is more than that little number that you count down until your next level. It's something that happens to you as a player. Something that happens to your characters to help develop them.

Instant gratification is nice for some people. But instant gratification usually doesn't keep people around. It's that DESIRE to KNOW. That DRIVE to WIN.

I don't mind people knowing about items or what location they're in. That'd be hella nice for people to know. You know I didn't know about they nymph heart for the first seven years I played here? I've only known about it for the last two. No one told me about it in game. No one showed me. I didn't even know consumables outside of the shops existed until it started being talked about on the forums. Too much information is kept hidden.

We're already a lot more lax on these things now:

Divine Mandate > Forum Rules:

Update.

Objects and Object affects no longer need to be edited out of RP/PK logs unless they relate to a quest/quest race/Cabals/quest class/malform weapon/tattoos or any other prohibited items of discussion.

We're already a lot more lax on these things now:

Divine Mandate > Forum Rules:

Now, that was not exactly what Tot was talking about

I think we should go back to old days of free PK Logs, at least non Q/class race stuff.

I prefer some Dwaving PK logs to no logs.

hrm. OK, Knowing a warrior can bash me, does not mean that he can not. Knowing a warrior can bash me, only allows me to know what to expect. This entire topic pushed my memories to Jevril vs Masokant. H&R will tell you, as a warrior I bashed and I bashed at this guy, to no avail, I have been here for years and could not figure out why I was failing a mastered skill against what I considered a similar sized creature. Knowing the things you imply we should all be able to know, would have saved me from that mistake, true, but it would not have been the fun little puzzle I got to figure out. I am no against this Idea, but if we remove the unknown entirely, I would have no reason left to stay honestly. Also, q-things are specific to Aabahran, if we post willy nilly all the facts about them, they will be adopted(stolen) by other muds who have "spies" in this forum. You do not have to be paranoid for people to be out to get you. And frankly I remember when Stryth came here a few years ago, I must have gotten 50+ IMs from him asking about this skill or that, how it works, does it lag, blah blah blah. And for those of you who think he did not USE the information he gathered, go check out how he implemented bows and volley. So I am a fan of keeping things sacred to Aabahran in AABAHRAN. Do what you will, but understand data theft only occurs when you leave your data out in the open. My thoughts, listen or don't, it will be your mistake to make.

hrm. OK' date=' Knowing a warrior can bash me, does not mean that he can not. Knowing a warrior can bash me, only allows me to know what to expect. This entire topic pushed my memories to Jevril vs Masokant. H&R will tell you, as a warrior I bashed and I bashed at this guy, to no avail, I have been here for years and could not figure out why I was failing a mastered skill against what I considered a similar sized creature. Knowing the things you imply we should all be able to know, would have saved me from that mistake, true, but it would not have been the fun little puzzle I got to figure out. I am no against this Idea, but if we remove the unknown entirely, I would have no reason left to stay honestly. Also, q-things are specific to Aabahran, if we post willy nilly all the facts about them, they will be adopted(stolen) by other muds who have "spies" in this forum. You do not have to be paranoid for people to be out to get you. And frankly I remember when Stryth came here a few years ago, I must have gotten 50+ IMs from him asking about this skill or that, how it works, does it lag, blah blah blah. And for those of you who think he did not USE the information he gathered, go check out how he implemented bows and volley. So I am a fan of keeping things sacred to Aabahran in AABAHRAN. Do what you will, but understand data theft only occurs when you leave your data out in the open. My thoughts, listen or don't, it will be your mistake to make.[/quote']

Wisdom! In all seriousness, I've had exactly 1 qsomething and there has literally been no other experience in my time here that gave me the same sense of accomplishment and excitement about the character. It was that special feeling that people like Columbus must have felt. There is something more, something left to be discovered. And yes, people will steal things if you just leave them lying out. This is why cars go in garages and silverware is behind a locked front door.

"Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean someone isn't out to get you"

Probably should have written

Divine Mandates -> Forum rules. One sub post of Divine Mandates. Clear now, I hope

Wisdom! In all seriousness' date=' I've had exactly 1 qsomething and there has literally been no other experience in my time here that gave me the same sense of accomplishment and excitement about the character. It was that special feeling that people like Columbus must have felt. There is something more, something left to be discovered. [/quote']

^ This

I have played Avatars, undeads, a vampire, demons, and still have much much more to do in game. Whats the fun if there is some guide that tells all and leaves nothing to mystery?

Hell, Q-things aside, in the long term you still have all the different paths of the different classes as well as cleric paths, cabal powers.

Revealing everything will only do two things in my book. Devalue the accomplishment, Ruin the since of mystery.

^ This

I have played Avatars, undeads, a vampire, demons, and still have much much more to do in game. Whats the fun if there is some guide that tells all and leaves nothing to mystery?

Hell, Q-things aside, in the long term you still have all the different paths of the different classes as well as cleric paths, cabal powers.

Revealing everything will only do two things in my book. Devalue the accomplishment, Ruin the since of mystery. Thank you, I must have missed the point, but this is where I was going. Knowing a malform and leveling one are two distinct accomplishments, one could be handed to you, the other must be earned. Which is more appreciated? Which actually makes you a better player? Someone can tell you everything about the game, but knowledge alone will not make you better. Its like training a new employee, I can tell you everything, but letting you get hands on experience will teach you more in a day than I could tell you in a year. Meanwhile, if you are getting pwned by the varius qthings in game, keep this in mind. Those qthings often earned that spot by pwning with their base class, so you are not taking on easy prey. Also, those qthings are often pwning a large percentage of the pbase who DO have specific knowledge of the qthing. Even if ALL players had access to ALL help files, the well played qthing would still steamroll through the pbase. Why? Because as I began earlier, knowing that warrior can bash you, does not mean you can avoid it, you might be able to, but the knowledge alone does not grant you the ability. And I stand by the above comments, that the "discovery" of q-abilities and the like, IS the driving force that keeps veteran players returning. Holy crap you all must have struck a nerve with me on this one, I seem quite long winded on the subject. My apologies to staff if I have misspoken in regards to any q-abilities.

I'd like to see added to the forum a good quality map that showed all the areas in relation to each other. This wouldn't divulge any shrines or hidden rooms but at least a new player could come to the forum and get a birdseye of the world. Additonally I'd like to see an item database on the forum that showed all stats and locations (just area) of all items. Cabal items and Unique items could be named but have hidden stats. Quest items would not be in the database but I think all rares should be out in the open.

For all those who are defending the mystery...I understand why you are, I like the mystery too. Not all players do. Each person has their own line in the sand concerning how much they want to figure out themselves. Why forbid open discussion for those who want to partake? No one stops anyone from saying the majority of the pbase already knows all this stuff, and no one stops people from PMing each other with all the info that is being kept secret. No one can stop the passing of this information through several other avenues, and isn't the entire code even downloadable?

More mystery can always be added with new qraces, new qclasses, new areas, new quests, new items. I really don't think revealing more things openly will drive anyone away.

Exactly Croyvern.

Opening up the books wont create some magical edge against these classes and their players.

All you will be doing is removing the need to actually play the game to learn the neat stories and complicated systems that are hidden from many of the people here.

Even YESTERDAY! I Discovered something new in a cabal I have been a member of (an Elder in even) off and on for years now. Several YEARS and I found something else new and fresh that i had missed. This is what makes FL fun.