Forsaken Lands

Can we please have a new Average 25 mace 1 handed mace.

For a 50th good there is only one avg25 1h mace.

The maul, and this mace is used by all alignments.

Evils have the Nightfall, but no one uses it.

All other weapons are 2handed, and quite disadvantageous in most situations where your opponent does any melee damage, unless you are a giant.

We could recycle the Nightfall, into a lightweight socket-able mace, that can be used by anyone.

Evil communers already have the Fiber, lets us change the old evil mace, into fun for all.

Also, there is a chain in the Bathhouse, that could use a rework.

If no one uses a weapon, it means that perhaps that weapon should give something unique, or if it already does it should have it's malaise decreased.

For example in this case, a removal of the -50% trance.

Or at least a reduction to -10% trance.

I would also agree with more one handed maces...especially for goods. And maybe we could work on more 1-handed axes...?

I won't comment on whether or not we should have more of certain eq but I will say:

Goods gather eq easier than evils. Evils have greater access and (to some extent) 'cooler' eq than goods. Neutrals fall in between.

With this in mind the argument 'evils have it so what can't my goods have it?' is debunked.

There are some things goods have easy access to that evils get shafted on too - so its about swings and round-a-bouts. Holy weapons comes to mind.... Just because you're on a class that doesn't take advantage of this does not mean that overall things are not balanced.

Lytholm.

There is not enough eq in the game, period.

I could counter your holy weapons argument, but i will not.

I will speak of healing items, that goods get with ease.

Anyhow goods can only request one mace, and it's two handed.

Maces are like the ugly duck of weapon classes.

Right along with exotics. In my opinion exotic should be more plentiful and with special effects. Poison, faerie fire, etc...

Just to remind you, i am not speaking of avg30 weapons, but avg25 weapons, that a 50th should have acquire with some ease, alone.

I won't comment on whether or not we should have more of certain eq but I will say:

Goods gather eq easier than evils. Evils have greater access and (to some extent) 'cooler' eq than goods. Neutrals fall in between.

With this in mind the argument 'evils have it so what can't my goods have it?' is debunked.

There are some things goods have easy access to that evils get shafted on too - so its about swings and round-a-bouts. Holy weapons comes to mind.... Just because you're on a class that doesn't take advantage of this does not mean that overall things are not balanced.

Lytholm.

killing for > requesting for

There is an avg 27 mace somewhere that is one handed, but pretty heavy. Its effects are quite useful, however it seems to be pretty hard to get, and is for both alignments -- but easier to get as a good and not requestable. There is also another avg 27 mace, the mace of unholy spirits, strictly for evils which is pretty hard to get (depending on circumstance). There are also a multitude of avg 18-20 maces (some of them even socketable) that are for both aligns. In this, I will also say I agree completely with Lytholm on the subject.

Regarding maces and their users, why must we always have rare weapons to fight with? As a warrior, I found myself with lets say, 4 rare weapons in my inventory, plus one wielded. All the other weapon types were non-rares and did just fine IMHO.

"avg 27 mace somewhere that is one handed, but pretty heavy"

PM me with the Name, i think you are referring to one of the Two handed maces.

"killing for > requesting for"

True, except in the case of Shamans. Freaking Undead.

"Regarding maces and their users, why must we always have rare weapons to fight with?"

Why should we strive to win at all ? After all it's just about fun ?

Seriously, 20 avg <<< 27 avg. If you decrease the eq gap, it becomes mostly a game of skill.

I'm sure I can say the name without really giving out the location or the effects of it. It is called the smoking hammer, and no, it is not two handed.

Trust me

A quick glance of the information on the forum reveals the following:

Maces are the most defensive 1h weapon for a clerics/shamen/healers.
Mace/shield is superior to 2h mace or staff for defense vs melee as shield block is less negatively affected than 2h by being blind (eg dirt kick).
Mace/shield also means all your defenses aren't taken in a single disarm as would be the case with a 2h mace or staff.

So, in essence you are asking for more high damage weapons that provides several classes the best kind of defense. Already this is posible but you have to either sacrifice defense with the 2h mace/staff or sacrifice damage with the 1h/mace shield (unless of course you can get the maces that many want and few can have).

I think that having clerics/shaman/healers make this choice is a good thing. Make the option of high defense and high offense very common impacts on the class vs class balance of the game.

Lytholm.

Smoking hammer? Never seen or heard of

Smoking hammer is in a pretty common area, though most people who go there are after 1 mob in particular, and only go the paths required to get to him. I suggest exploring more areas.

Some things I think differently.

I use a Weapon and Shield when:

My opponent has weapon superiority, (is using a weapon i do not know). As dualing axes.
When he can disarm my weapon. Blademaster/Monks.

I use a Staff when:

I know the weapon he is using. Monks, Whip warriors.
When I am fighting charm armies (h2h). Rangers/Necros

I find Exotics more defensive than Maces, but everyone knows exotics, so it's less offensive than maces.

I do not fight dirted. No good comes from it. I do not play the dirt game with a Cleric. You dirt i flee. It's lose-lose for me.

I do not use 2 hands maces, ever. Unless it's a vulnerability weapon and he is already quite hurt.

"So, in essence you are asking for more high damage weapons that provides several classes the best kind of defense."

This already happens with "end game" weapons (maces) with average 30 and nodrop socket or norem and 1 handed.

I want more common (rare) weapons, for all. Not iron rubish, not antigood rubish, not 23 STR only rubish.

"I think that having clerics/shaman/healers make this choice is a good thing."

Shamans and Evil clerics have a mace just for them.

Shamans and Healer don't have two handed, so they should never use a 2handed staff.

Even then Shamans for me are better of with Exotics, than Maces. Unless they wish Flameblind.

Healers are better with healers staff, or if vs a warrior an Exotic.

"impacts on the class vs class balance of the game."

A average 25 mace should be a common thing.

As is an average 25 sword, and an average ~25 dagger, or an average 25 polearm, or an average 25 whip, or an average 25 flail, or an average -25 exotic.

The reason you see maces not being used by other classes, is not Mace off/def ratio, but the difficulty of getting a very good mace, coupled with the fact that the other weapon classes have better and more available alternatives to common (rare) maces.

Just an Idea, why not put a shop with weapons for sale:

All weapons classes, non rare, average 25.

No hit/dam bonus.

Level 40. (For enchanting purposes)

No extra flags. (no socket, no nodrop, no norem, no bless)

Non-magical Damage type.

50 000 gold coins per weapon.

That would simplify many things. Especially for the Smurfs. (Blue PK guys.)

Make a weapon "Rare" flag actualy mean something. As an weapon with an special property. (Nodrop,Norem,Socket,High Bonus,Bless)

Free lesson on weapons.

For me weapon defense is as follow. You can argue it, but this is what i get from my feed back from the game:

1 handed.

Spear, Sword, Exotic, Mace, Flail, Whip

Combo for Clerics:

Staff > Exotic + Shield > Mace + Shield > Holy Hands + Shield > Flail/Whip + Shield.

If opponent is a magic resist race, do not use a staff. Use a Mace or Holy hands.

If it's a magic vulnerable race, or a meele with bad saves, I use holy hands wait for effects to happen then cancel it and wield weapon.

If it's a berserk and i do not have a Burnprof weapon, I use holy hands. It works very well most of the fights.

I never use Holy hands vs a very high output meele opponent like a warrior, or an Armie - Necros/Rangers.

Now on Clerics:

Clerics kill many times based on enemy thinking he is winning.

You can heal, they cannot (most of times).

Keeping HP at ~50% is a good idea to keep them in battle.

Sometimes curing is more useful than casting Ray/Path.

Cure Critical 20 mana - > ~50 Hp

1 Ray <=> ~100 HP cured.

If you are not doing CAP's with Ray, then take an defensive posture.

Stick and do nothing, then cure a bit. Then do nothing.

Let your Meele and your Steel wall slowly erode his HP.

Let him cast (if you have high saves), save your mind.

Use kick. Kick is an underused skill in Cleric PK.

I get quite a few kills with Kick. It's also quite an insult to kick someone to death.

So many little things you can do with a Cleric, with so few offensive spells.

Clerics shine in Plans not on Invocker style Pk.

Some things I think differently.

I find Exotics more defensive than Maces, but everyone knows exotics, so it's less offensive than maces.

Pure Gold.

mya, the fact that you only ever play one class does not give you a very broad idea of general game balance. All of your suggestions seem to be only to the benefit of clerics..

And Paladins.

Mostly because other classes can fall back to other better weapon classes.

And i do not only play one Class.

I have played all classes, except Quest things. Not all to pinnacle, but close.

Still i agree with you on the fact that my experience on the Meele strategic department of the game is not great.

Still i have a very good idea on the weapons available. Not all, but most of the most used ones, coupled with some quite obscure pearls.

New 1 handed mace average 25.