Removal of the Who List

There was some discussion in a discussion thread about removing the who list.

I like the idea. I think that removing the who list would add more to the atmosphere of the game. It would make roleplaying more purposeful.

Some have argued that without a who list, grouping would become harder, with some saying nearly non-existant. So I propose a solution:

Have an introduction command, and/or a remember command.

syntax introduction

introduction

Citizens may wish to have their friends and family know there where-abouts within the realm. Introducing themselves will allow them to be remembered by either everyone on the room, or by a single person.

The command will put the player's name in the target's database, so only introduced or remembered characters come up on the who list. This will allow players to be able to reform groups, keep a list of friends and enemies and see if there is anyone they know currently playing.

syntax remember

Citizens may wish to remember a face, or a specific detail about someone for later use. By committing the name to memory, they will be able to know if that person is wandering about the realm.

The command will put the target's name in the player's database, so only introduced or remembered characters come up on the who list. This will allow players to be able to reform groups, keep a list of friends and enemies and see if there is anyone they know currently playing.

Another plus to this style of play is that the monthly polls will not be filled with people who just show up on the who list. No more default placement because they are the only one at 50 in that class. This style almost forces a player to make him/herself known.

Comments?

Grey

Well its a fairly common theme amongst RPI's, as the two I've played work almost identically to how your suggesting. That said this isn't a RPI, I've played, and still do play a RPI evey now and again, and when I go there, I get what I expect.

This is a Role-play enforced PK mud. Not a Roleplay Intensive mud. When looking at PK muds, PK playability is as, if not more, important than RPish "realism." What your suggesting works fine in a Roleplay intensive environment, but would cripple this mud in terms of its PK feasibility and balance.

Could RP be better enforced here? Yes absolutley, and thats something we as a Playerbase all need to take on board more. If we want to raise RP standards we need to be willing to accept some knocks to PK, but this is, IMO a bridge to far. We want to improve the RP within the MUD as it stands, not change the MUD into a Roleplay Intensive.

Arguments against removing the who list:

• Making grouping harder (as players must seek out other players in hunting areas and interact as opposed to doing ‘who group’ and sending a tell). Whilst the ideas above help alleviate this slightly, looking for groups will still be a harder, possibly even frustrating process. Sure, you will see people interact more to form groups – that shouldn’t suggest that it’s roleplaying. The people who roleplay will continue to roleplay as they do, and the people that just want to get into the thick of hunting with no fuss will instead of sending tells with the stock “Want to hunt?”, they’ll likely just simply run to hunting areas, ask people their rank and class, and then ask “Want to hunt?”. Either way, whilst the increase in interaction will be nice, is it going to be enough to outweight the frustration of finding a group? Don’t forget, our playerbase isn’t huge – sometimes finding a group is hard enough as it is, without having to run about everywhere just to find people you haven’t met before.

• If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. What’s wrong with the who list as it is? Why is this change warranted? Removing the who list isn’t a small change with small implications, it is a big change to the way the MUD works. You may say it helps people just pick out people of the opposite alignment and attack them without knowing them – why is this a bad thing? The problem is with the players that do this silently with no other interaction than just PK, not players that pick people out of the who list based on their race, and then interact with them – knowing who is who, us characters being famous players, is very reasonable. Removing who list IS NOT going to alleviate this problem well – as with above, the more well-rounded players will carry on as they have done. The silent PKers aren’t instantly going to start sacrificing PK to RP – they’ll likely see people in their where who are in their range and just attack them, or even pop in, ask a few questions (solely asked to see if they are a worthy PK target, not necessarily to roleplay) and then attack. Interaction through speech doesn’t necessarily equal roleplaying.

If your problem is that you feel having the who list is OOC, well, it’s already been mentioned numerous times that we are FAMOUS people in Aabaharn, and it’s ENTIRELY FEASIBLE to suggest that people know about us.

• Removing the who list = no more custom titles. Not a huge factor by any means, but one nontheless.

• A lot of the players here, are here for the roleplaying enforced PK MUD. This change pushes the MUD moreso towards a roleplaying intensive MUD with PK. Is this a bad thing? There’s not necessarily anything wrong with roleplaying intensive MUDs, but this MUD isn’t it. I’m sorry, but that’s fact – it is entirely possible to make it roleplaying intensive yourself, but without drastic changes to the system (such as removing the who list) that’s how it is. With the majority (at a guess) here playing for this sort of thing, removing the who list changes the MUD a lot, and will remove some players from the playerbase whilst attracting new ones. Unless the IMMS want to change the direction the MUD is going, then instead of trying to push square blocks into triangular holes, find a square hole – a more roleplay intensive MUD with PK elements. Materia Magica is a fantastic PK and PvM MUD, but I’m not about to go there and tell them to start enforcing RP because that’s what I like. I’m pretty much just parroting English Lad’s post here.

• Loneliness. Yes, you read it right, loneliness. I have played a MUD before where there was no who list, simply an indicator as to how many people who were online. I didn’t like it at all, because I just felt as though I couldn’t easily interact with anybody. In some respects, you are making it HARDER to interact – no longer can you just check the who and send a few tells to people you would like to speak to.

• Newbie Friendly. Although some of you disagree, I firmly believe that having the who list helps newbies determine who they can and cannot hunt with. I can just see an Elf Paladin trotting over to a Human DK, asking a little about him, and getting shamelessly pounded into the ground.

Arguments for removing the who list:

• Increased interaction. Why? Because you are forced into interacting with people to find out information about them. Counter-argument: Interaction does not equal roleplay. People who shy from roleplaying will simply be asking questions using IC language to determine whether they are a target/hunting partner.

• Stops people picking people out of the who list and attacking them without interacting. Sure does that – people will have to interact to find out about them. Counter-argument: Again, interaction does not equal roleplay. Picking people out of the who list based on their race/cabal/class also isn’t even the problem – it’s the players that don’t roleplay. This change won’t likely turn those players into Herald wannabes.

• Increased realism (arguable). Counter-argument: some OOC tools are required to maintain the functionality/playability of this sort of MUD – not so much in an RP intensive MUD. Besides, having the who list is NOT unrealistic.

I still don’t approve of this change. I know it’s all opinion at the end of the day, but I cannot find any real positives with removing the who list. Just my opinion and thoughts, feel free to pick my post apart and disagree. It is essentially changing the MUD in a way that does not need to be changed unless the IMMs feel the MUD is in need of a new direction. If you like RPGs, don't play an FPS and then complain about the lack of character development - play an RPG and be happy (an example).

Dey

If your problem is that you feel having the who list is OOC, well, it’s already been mentioned numerous times that we are FAMOUS people in Aabaharn, and it’s ENTIRELY FEASIBLE to suggest that people know about us.

I don't have a problem either way. Just offering suggestions.

The idea of removing the who list is just weird. I think it may be the single worst suggestion I have ever seen on the forum.

Removing the who list will create a greater dependency on actual OOC contacts, ie, AIM, yahoo, msn. If you can't find a group IG, why not chat up your buddies?

I don't have a problem either way. Just offering suggestions.

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound aggressive or like an *** there. Just a little poor wording on my part.

Dey

aabahran would be a much more open place without a list. exceptions for a mini-list could be dictated by clan membership and other special features like those mentioned. loneliness is a bad thing? already, no one can or wants to sit in CC anywhere, a place/setting where people actually would want to congregate. so a feeling of feral mindset and loneliness is really already in place.

People want to sit and chat in CC plenty. They just are smart enough not to. Without a who list at all, you can guarantee I'm never sitting in one place for long, or if I do it's INCREDIBLY off in the middle of nowhere. I'd be very unlikely to find, all the time, and I'd be very bored very fast. I loved that I was able to spend a lot of Ilendriel's time just sitting in Shas, but without a who list, how many people would've ever come out there and found me to talk? In a week of playing an hour a day, probably 5. It'd have been no fun at all.

There would be a good RP boost that would come from removing the wholist, but only to an extent. I think that the cons outweigh the pros.

aabahran would be a much more open place without a list. exceptions for a mini-list could be dictated by clan membership and other special features like those mentioned. loneliness is a bad thing? already' date=' no one can or wants to sit in CC anywhere, a place/setting where people actually would want to congregate. so a feeling of feral mindset and loneliness is really already in place.[/quote']

More like a much more lonely place.

You would never be able to find anyone.

Im with those who say the lands would become a ghost town, even if 20 people where on...it would still be a ghost town.

i think the average player is a little more competent than that. that said, i know the idea is too experimental to be implemented. other things would need changing to maximize its benefit. one thing for sure though, is that the MUD would be a much more romantic place. no, not sYb3rs3ks romantic but romantic in the classical sense. encounters would mean a lot more to a player. i generally RP b/c i have to, but you can bet i would RP like an uber-original Herald everytime i met someone in a no-wholist world. this is because i would actually care about what's news, unlike how it is where everyone knows who's in the Fishbowl, other than rogues.

i think the average player is a little more competent than that. that said' date=' i know the idea is too experimental to be implemented. other things would need changing to maximize its benefit. one thing for sure though, is that the MUD would be a much more romantic place. no, not sYb3rs3ks romantic but romantic in the classical sense. encounters would mean a lot more to a player. i generally RP b/c i have to, but you can bet i would RP like an uber-original Herald everytime i met someone in a no-wholist world. this is because i would actually care about what's news, unlike how it is where everyone knows who's in the Fishbowl, other than rogues.[/quote']

GB, the fact that you "RP B/C you have to" is more of a reason for lack of flavor and lack luster experience.

I Rp because I enjoy it. Not because I have to. I write descriptions, backgrounds, and quest apps because I like to write, I express myself in widly varying ways through my characters becaue its fun.

If with no who-list you can "RP like an uber-original Herald" then why cant you do that NOW. There is nothing stopping you, the who list is by far a non-restrictive factor.

yeah i think it's largely a matter of "why do you play" that's the final issue. when i play, i play for shinies, hard equipment runs, and PK. even though i suck at PK. in the years playing, i havent gone OOC in probably almost 6 years back when i used to temper tantrum. sometimes i even tried to do great RP and was moderately successful. to me though, the Fishbowl mentality makes information about what's going on too cheap to come by.

Information about what's going on? All it does is tell you who is currently on that you can see.

hi guys!

oh, we're still discussing this ridiculous proposal.

hi guys!

oh, we're still discussing this ridiculous proposal.

Honestly, we all know you're VERY opposed to this change, but not allowing other people to discuss will breed contempt. Let anyone who has honest thoughts about it go ahead and say what they want. Don't just post stuff that'll get a flamewar started. Please.

Honestly' date=' we all know you're VERY opposed to this change, but not allowing other people to discuss will breed contempt. Let anyone who has honest thoughts about it go ahead and say what they want. Don't just post stuff that'll get a flamewar started. Please.[/quote']

just saying...

maybe people should brainstorm some other ideas

this is very obviously a change that would NEVER work on this or any other sortof similar Rom (or whatever) mud game, ESPECIALLY one with as many rooms as FL has. it just wouldnt, not without a complete overhaul and basically a completely different game. integrating this terrible idea would kill this mud, plain and simple. if you cant see that, i feel sorry for you.

how about...talk about something worthwhile? not trying to be flamey you guys, but this is just silly. lets all go roll lowbies and rp for an hour instead of putting more thought to this stupid who list thing.

man i haven't thought about the concept of "Flame warZ" in a long, long time.