I think we can all agree rangers can be very powerful in the right hands and it is much easier to do well with a ranger and hit the power peak than with any other melee class.
I would not say overpowered, but more powerful than they should be. Why not remove pugil? Force them to be less defensive if they want good offense and vise versa.
I don't agree.
Pugil is what allows rangers to be competitive against warriors, berserkers, blademasters, battlemages, necromancers, and dark-knights.
Remove it, and they'll be bum****ed.
yeah, and really..
"Hi I am mr. ranger, watch me make a staff from a log with my bare hands!!! "
Ranger makes ranger staff!!
"Kill something with it you say? pfft, I never learned to USE it..just make it!"
yeah, and really..
"Hi I am mr. ranger, watch me make a staff from a log with my bare hands!!! "
Ranger makes ranger staff!!
"Kill something with it you say? pfft, I never learned to USE it..just make it!"
Sounds like Aulian's druids... 
Dey
Just because a blacksmith can make a weapon, doesn't mean he can use it...
Rangers can camo, herb, and get dual parry, that's a whole lot more than any other rogue-ish class.(Bards, thieves, ninjas)
bards get hide, cure, dual parry...? and invis, and detect invis...
But then, most blacksmiths don't spend their lives training for combat either.
'ninjas get acupuncture, hide, invis, detect both, pugil, dual wield....
Sounds like Aulian's druids...
Dey
Well I dont know whats worse, the fact I don't know how to use it or the fact you died to me despite my ineptitude. 
Just because a blacksmith can make a weapon, doesn't mean he can use it...
Rangers can camo, herb, and get dual parry, that's a whole lot more than any other rogue-ish class.(Bards, thieves, ninjas)
A ranger isnt a blacksmith, this is your stride across the highlands, live off the wild, protector of nature warrior type beastmaster. Pugil just fits, and honestly rangers arent overpowered imho. Heck, My current drops them just fine.
I did not say they were overpowered, just MUCH stronger and easier to succeed with than almost any other combination.
I think they need a tone down somewhere. Bow/Arrow and pugil? Naw, too much. At least make pugil a selectable skill. Maybe put it with tracker?
I did not say they were overpowered, just MUCH stronger and easier to succeed with than almost any other combination.
I think they need a tone down somewhere. Bow/Arrow and pugil? Naw, too much. At least make pugil a selectable skill. Maybe put it with tracker?
rangers would be eaten alive my most classes without it.
rangers would be eaten alive my most classes without it.
I've played one or two rangers here or there and I'd have to disagree with that.- HOWEVER:
Ogre rangers in the past were incredibly strong, more so then they should ever have been with the way the playerbase has grown in respect to eq knowledge and being able to survive things that would of previously killed ogres more easily. (Due to under preperation.)
Ogres were changed and that is now no longer a problem.
Taking away pugil would not be good. It would make playing a ranger incredibly hard. Killing anything would be heavily reduced for you would have to rely on alot more use of a shield and a weapon, or risking dual weilding against some classes where a staff would be ideal to pump enough damage.
There are so many ways for you to disable so many of a rangers skills - they also have NO way of reliably lagging you, none at all. (even shield throwing isnt reliable, just ask Triathix) If you take pugil, make it back with giving them the ability to lag.
Rangers are NOT that powerful, hell if they were I wouldnt be fighting to draws with Dey now would I?
What everyone fails to forget is that it takes an experienced player to do great things with any class/race combo. I'm sure if Despiser had to come back and roll a dwarf bard and stomp 90% of the pbases faces in we would all be screaming about how bards are OP.
I can tell you by FAR that rangers do not need to be toned down. If this was the case then I would not be so close to condeath 
The last thing Rangers need is a more reliable lag, IMO. I don't think they need pugil removing either, however, remember that post before when someone suggested making pugil based on dexterity? The higher your dex = the more useful pugil is? That way, all rangers have pugil, but it's a lot more useful for the more dexterous races.
I don't think they're overpowered. They just have a high power spike (no higher than any other class with a high power spike) combined with survivability (camo), which can make things hard.
Meh, honestly, I don't know. I haven't even played a ranger before so I'm not really qualified to comment.
Dey
I am not saying rangers are overpowered. I am saying they are too easy to use and too easy to get to their power spike.
Forcing them to choose between being defensive and more offensive? That's what would balance them. I think.
You don't have to give me the "experienced player" crap. I know that by now. What i'm saying is, I could roll a ranger and stomp much of the playerbase much easier than if I rolled any other class. I also feel rangers are too strong versus other melees.
I would definitely NOT consider rangers to be overpowered. And for the supposed power spike, I would go as far as saying its lower than any other melee class except for bard. It is true that it is easier to reach their power spike because of their survivability, but a warrior or crusader (sudders) reaching their power spike will stomp a ranger even without entering a single command. Remember deravgner at his peak? I remember he only needed to touch you and you died.
I would definitely NOT consider rangers to be overpowered. And for the supposed power spike' date=' I would go as far as saying its lower than any other melee class except for bard. It is true that it is easier to reach their power spike because of their survivability, but a warrior or crusader (sudders) reaching their power spike will stomp a ranger even without entering a single command. Remember [b']deravgner at his peak? I remember he only needed to touch you and you died.
There was a reason we fondly nick-named him "The Wall"
I'm sure if Despiser had to come back and roll a dwarf bard and stomp 90% of the pbases faces in we would all be screaming about how bards are OP.
dwarf bards ARE incredibly awesome and versatile.
