Councilors allowed more laws?

I thought this might be an interesting conversation so I thought I would start a new thread with the post I commented on Byrsypherus's condeath thread.

It reads:

all of Martineius's laws are still in the tomes Wayward Knight. If Council ever gets back up and running his laws wont have gone to waste. They are a great example of what types of laws future councilors can make to aid the tribunal or the cities themselves. I think Council needs to be upped a bit' date=' allowed to make more laws per rank than the current 1. 1 law per rank per councilor is just not enough without like 4 councilors.[/quote']

Why?! its more then enough?

A law = absolute power. Something EVERY SINGLE player has to take heed of if they dont want to be WANTED.

I mean you can do anything with writing a law.

Example:

"All bladed weapons are deemed too dangerous to the common populace to be worn in town. These include; daggers, swords, axes, edged weapons, dancing blades, battlemages scythes, and polearms. If they are found sheathed or hidden upon your person you can be warranted and an arrest enforced."

Example 2:

"Any motion of warlike intent within a city can result in the issuing of a warrant. This includes the shouting of warcry's, entering into a beserked state, being dressed in a warlike manner, presenting arms, casting protective spells used in battle such as protective shield, sanction, fire shield, (ect). Also discussing fields of battle, past battles, battle plans, current wars, alliance negotiations or any other form of discussion will result in the issuing of a warrant."

Example 3:

"Tribunal supports only three major and annonymous temples. They are a multi-deity supporting empire and thus the use of warcry's, divine interventions, blesses, malforms, or any other link toward an identifiable deity is strictly in defiance of Tribunal's multi-deity standing. As such these transgressions will result in a warrant being issued and enforced by the Tribunals.

With a little bit of imagination (and the balls to actually enforce them) the tribunals have ABSOLUTE power over the three city states.

Anything is within their scope - I mean if they can make drinking from the fountains illegal, why not anything else

I think its JUST fine JUST THE WAY IT IS.

Heh, you kidding me? If I couldn't even keep prot shield up in a city, I'd NEVER be in them.

Just can't get enough.

Like I said in another post, there is a great way to "add" flavor to the councilors.

Each councilor will be allowed only one law per lifetime, that is fair. HOWEVER, allow them to revive the Martin laws and former Councilor laws and enforce them so long as a councilor exists. So basically their one law won't die when they do, only be lost until another councilor is able to retrieve them and enforce them.

Just can't get enough.

Like I said in another post, there is a great way to "add" flavor to the councilors.

Each councilor will be allowed only one law per lifetime, that is fair. HOWEVER, allow them to revive the Martin laws and former Councilor laws and enforce them so long as a councilor exists. So basically their one law won't die when they do, only be lost until another councilor is able to retrieve them and enforce them.

I like this.

So you're saying aslong as there is a Councilor in play all previously made laws would be effective? No way, now that's too powerful. There's already been enough laws made to influence the power of the Tribunes too much just by Martineius.

Aulian, while those laws made me laugh, the standards of the Council are to make laws that would benefit the Tribune and the citizens most. The fountain law isn't the best example of that, but Wyslign had some valid points when he suggested that law of why the law itself would help the cities and would not hinder the Tribunal in any way. These laws you mentioned would prevent even the Tribunal from being prepared for an attack while in town, that would hinder the Tribunal. It's trickier than one might think to make laws that are going to make a big difference when they are limited to one law.

Aulian, while those laws made me laugh, the standards of the Council are to make laws that would benefit the Tribune and the citizens most.

I disagree. The standards of the council is to make laws that will benefit the EMPIRE most. It's an empire - they rule by an iron fist. If you are a good aligned ruler, you will be taking the citizens into account. However, if you are an EVIL emperor, you take power into account. If the citizens fail to heed, you crush them under the heel of your boot.

The laws mentioned by Aulian would actually be quite fine, especially since the one in question specifically states that it is the GENERAL POPULACE that cannot bear arms. By definition then, the Tribunal is exempt.

I could be wrong on this, and I'd like Wathok's input (don't really care about anyone else's, since it's his decision).

Most of what Martineius wrote is NOT, in fact, law. It is merely a description of the different levels of crimes that TribunalSkill (j****) reports. Therefore, they do not follow the rule of inactivity when no councilors in office, because they simply clarify in detail, rather than append or add to the Maxim.

I could be wrong, but I view it as: Severe Crimes as stated by Martineius should be treated like it exists at all time.

shrug Just an opinion. Could be wrong.

So you're saying aslong as there is a Councilor in play all previously made laws would be effective? No way' date=' now that's too powerful. There's already been enough laws made to influence the power of the Tribunes too much just by Martineius. [/quote']

Okay so maybe they can start new, he made a lot of laws.

Or, the lead council member, or in the event of a tie an agreeing pair/trio/whathaveyou, can decide which laws they wish to bring back. As far as Martins laws, I think that some go too far but some were needed.

How does it work at the moment?

IMHO, I think that one per character is more than enough (personally all I see is a pbase going to find a way to abuse this but time will tell...). When the character is not longer a Tribunal (ie condead, inactive, booted by Prax) then the law ceases to exist.

L-A

Lol yeah those examples were OVER THE TOP on purpose

But one thing I have to say is that I think a lot of people fail to GRASP what Tribunal actually is. Its a Tyranny (sp?). It is there for itself and itself alone.

If tribunal were so 'concerned' about their citizens there would be a few minor adjustments to them. AKA: no thieves would be allowed in town to protect the citizens, same with ninjaz/assassins.

You see Tribunal is more of a, as before mentioned, iron first ruling the three major cities. They rule by MARTIAL LAW. There is no judge or jury. You are decided guilty as soon as the Tribunal feels like it.

But really, I dont see why there would be many restrictions (besides obvious ones) to making laws. Its a tyranny. They can do what the hell you like and you lawful citizens better do it, or be treated like an enemy to the state

As is you can make one law per Council rank for a maximum of 3 which in most cases is pretty much 1 since you wont be promoted to Elder very often. The last Elder Council was Unst and he got it just before he condeathed practically. If he's no longer a Council member via condeath or otherwise those laws are no longer existing though they can be brought back one by one by future council members.

Aulian, those are the types of laws that the Councilors have the ability to append. And those are ones that would benefit the citizens aswell as the Empire. The maxiim is Very vague, it leaves room for so much different change. I like the way the maxiim is set up now allowing councilors to create these appended laws for the duration of their reign because of that fact that the types of laws in effect will constantly change as the counilors do. But just look at how many laws Martineius made, and how long he was in power. There are Very few players that could do that for the duration, Tribunal is a difficult cabal to remain on top for an extended period of time. Not many people can become Leader of Tribunal so that means right now a good council that makes it to elder could have Two laws. These laws have to be very specific to be approved so while each one of those laws can be very powerful, by themselves they wont cover a whole lot. I'm not saying they need to be able to make 2-3 laws per rank, but maybe two at trusted then one at elder one at leader. One extra law would make quite a difference.

You know Warmongrel.

Im actually talking out my arse. Ive never had a tribby..

But that being said, im very interested to hear Prax's side of the story.

It just seems the power of making something everyone else in the game has to adhere to is quite large.

My examples were a bit over the top and I suppose in good measure.

I suppose that the power of the laws and the number lie with Immortal regulation. If perhaps more laws are allowed - they would have to reflect their number by their power. Fewer laws perhaps need to be more powerful/ristricting.

Just to make sure you understand - im not for or against this. I just chose to argue one side of the story

But you are choosing to argue quite vigorously which makes it obvious:

Aulian is WATCHER!

You have been unmasked, with your forest-dancing and your hippie treesex...

Hey theres nothing wrong with hippie treesex if no trees get hurt...

Hey theres nothing wrong with hippie treesex if no trees get hurt...

And they are mutually consenting woodland creatures, of course

So these laws though, do they only apply when the councilor is actually present, or are the upheld even while the councilor is not in the lands. Im curious as to why the law will be done away with when the councilor is actually gone.

Think of it as random cabal IMM x saying that for the cabal he/she is leading nobody is allowed to fight in groups under any circumstances. Well, when the cabal IMM changes for that cabal, that is no longer true unless the new cabal IMM decides to continue the boundary.

Caballed: But they GANG UP ON US!

IMM: hands over lube BOHICA. (Bend Over Here It Comes Again)

As it stands right now, the laws a councilor makes are now new laws as if they were in the maxiim, until that councilor is condead or deletes. If the councilor is nolonger on the roll call, then the law is nolonger in effect, but as long as they are on the rollcall the law is to be enforced.