Watcher skills are a big help to all race/class combos that go Watcher. The problem isn't neccessarily the Cabal skills they get, but rather, the race/class the play, that determines how well they do. But some race/class combos will benefit more with these skills than others. Why? Taking the same example, look at a Stalker Feral Thief/Ninja. Trying to fight a vamp, damn tricky right? Should Stalker get a tweak because of that? No, because how about an Ogre Ranger/Warrior fighting the same vamp, combined with the Stalker skillset?

Just because Stalkers are sent to fight Demons/Undeads/Avatars doesn't mean that every race/class combo should be able to do it effectively. That's like saying that just because Knights have to fight Nexus, every single race/class combo that joins Knight should be able to do that task well.

I'm not sure if this is what you were getting at, and if not, I apologize - perhaps you could clarify? The Stalker skillset is a strong toolset for those out looking to do what Stalkers do best, infact, every single Stalker skill from Inductee to Elder is very useful (I can't say about Leader as I don't know what it does) and I don't believe anybody who says otherwise. As for Warders, I have seen only a handful of their skills (when used against me) and I know that a couple were pretty cool and helpful, but I can't say for sure on them. However, Warders are primarily the town-rampagers and I imagine their skillset is tailored to that type of thing, as opposed to the seeking and killing the unnatural people of Aabahran.

Dey

I've played both. I prefered Warder. But that aside. I was just talking to a few people and they thought there was a bit of an imbalance between the subcabals, I figured I'd bring it up on the forums. I don't think there's enough of a difference to warrant the trouble it would be to change things up, but I was trying to start a discussion.(as much as there can be without getting into things we can't talk about)

Between the individual Watcher subcabals, or between Watcher and the other people they fight? Sorry, I thought you meant that they were underpowered, skillwise, as opposed to the stuff other Cabals get, considering who Watchers have to fight. Which didn't make sense to me, as Watchers get powerful skills.

I would say that Stalker has a stronger skillset, from what I have seen used against me fighting Warders but not overpowered - perfect for someone who will be pitted against every Qrace and Qclass apart from Psi/Sader. But not all of their skills are for specific use against these qrace/qclasses, which perhaps might make them stronger than Warder in a sense - I don't know, I can't even begin to make an argument without having played a Warder, because just because I've seen a couple of Warder things used on me, doesn't mean there is a ton of Warder stuff that I don't know about.

Dey

I myself only see two problems. They're one of the three cabals with a very limited set of race/classes that can join. And they are pitted against a cabal that anyone can join. And two, yes, was the pets. I've never played in another cabal that had pets, so I don't know how other cabals gain theirs. I always assumed they just paid a lot of cps for them.

Mmmm. I don't know how taboo this is.

Look at the Watcher method of gaining pets. See a difference there, than to what you think other Cabals do to get their pets? Lot easier and simple to do, and it's just sort of like an added bonus to get. With Tribunal, one of their major points of power seems to be their Blood Guard. Such is not the case with Watcher, but they don't need a strong pet like that.

Dey

Warders have some passive skills few Warders know about.

That settles it then.

But definately, please delete this thread; it's making me want to delete my existing character and roll another Watcher. By far, and beating WM by a bit, the coolest Cabal ever.

Dey

I knew my recruiting tactics would work!

EDIT:: I really don't want anything changed with Watcher. Then everyone would be trying to join and I'd actually have to be good at PK to join...

PS I still want to see a slith warder something (thief or blademaster), that would be such a nice combi.

I would love to see a Dwarf/Human/Ogre/Stone Zerk Stalker. That would literally be my favourate class and Cabal.

Dey

Give me a slith ranger and I'll go for it...lol.

I want a slith Psi...wait...Nobody plays psi's! slaps self

Warders have some passive skills few Warders know about.

damn passive agressive warders

ok ok I better say something

Alright Ive played both the STALKER and the WARDER skillset to LEADER. (Aulian + Dulanain)

Alright. As I take it a cabal skillset is not supposed to make you god. Its supposed to aid in your other duties, but not supposed to really put you above the power of the rest of the uncabaled playerbase, or thats how I thought it was implemented.

As for the power of either Warder or Stalker, believe me they are both plenty powerful. The combination of skills in either of the sub cabals can, when used correctly, cause devestating results but like anything it requires a bit of time, patience and lots of experimentation.

Seeing as some things with the Watcher cabal have changed recently, (Eshaine will know what I mean ) Watchers now have a much greater leg to stand on. Personally in the area I thought we were lacking slightly.

The only other area I can only see perhaps some problem is the charmies! Yes, I think the level, like said before by someone (sorry cant remember but think it was DEY) greatly reduces the effectiveness compared to any other cabal charmy. Example : Tribby Blood guard.

Example where balanced: NEXUS serpent/Dragon and KNIGHT Inquisitor/Demon Hunter/Van Guard.

damn passive agressive warders

That made me laugh.

The only other area I can only see perhaps some problem is the charmies! Yes, I think the level, like said before by someone (sorry cant remember but think it was DEY) greatly reduces the effectiveness compared to any other cabal charmy. Example : Tribby Blood guard.

It was me who said that the pets being unbalanced ISN'T a problem, at least IMO. I don't think they need to be balanced with other Cabal mobs, level-wise, for the sake of them being equal to another Cabal Charmie. Why? I want to say, but I don't want to give any information away. But for like, Nexus, Knight, Tribby, the pets are a core part of their Cabal skillset. For Watchers, it isn't - it's more like a "free gift" on the side of everything else you get as a Watcher.

Dey

im not saying make them as strong, Im merely saying that as they are, they are pretty useless for any REAL PK use.

Oh, definately. But unless you're a class that hides/camos, then that 'free gift' pet is at the very least, better than not having one, even if they are of very little effectiveness with a skill that may only kick in once in a blue moon.

Dey

For that 'certain skill' you can buy better charmies and they would be the same level

I was under the impression that you could have both, much like how you can have a store-bought charmie + charmie summoned from scroll or other similar methods, due to the way the Watcher mobs are gained. Never tried it, so I might be wrong. But if that's not the case, then...mmm. I'll shut up.

Damn you and your Ranger-druidy Watcherness.

Dey

just think of it this way, watcher skills are often used more strategically in combat, in my opinion. Basically you can't just spam this one spell and do dmg or something like that nexus reaver one and kill people. So the proper combos = powerful watcher skills.