Make it so that when you rage in this path, you actually lose control of your character for the duration of combat. Your special techniques will be randomly chosen by the MUD. Maybe gain some new skills during rage? Or up the hit/dam? to compensate for this.
It makes sense when you consider the rage differences, anger you can relax, fury you can't flee and so devestation you can't control your character.
I don't like it. 75% of the fights I won with my Berserker were down to very carefully timing certain skills for devastating effect, such as letting someone do a two-round skill to me, then just as the lag is about to wear off, haymaker, and they do another two-round skill right afterwards, leaving two rounds of no sanctuary and me being able to trip/bodyslam before their lag wears. Same sort of thing with weapon cleave.
Also, imagine you rage against say, an Elf Invoker (without flight) and you start randomly trying to trip them - much better things you could be doing.
Also, rage paths (especially devastation) do give certain other nifty bonuses than just what you see in the affects list. It would be silly to rage and not be able to fully and effectively capitalise on those bonuses.
Dey
HAHA I actually like this idea except id be pissed when it f***s me over but it would be sweet when random ultra sweet skill kicks in and you dominate them with it.
I can see some skills getting disabled, like those that would require major concentration, but the beserker is a master of utilizing rage and I dont think it should be completely random.
On a side note- If this actually did get implimented, I would have to make a devastation zerker just because it would be wild.
75% of the fights I won with my Berserker were down to very carefully timing certain skills for devastating effect' date=' such as letting someone do a two-round skill to me, then just as the lag is about to wear off, haymaker, and they do another two-round skill right afterwards, leaving two rounds of no sanctuary and me being able to trip/bodyslam before their lag wears. [/quote']
Hey Dey - you said you couldn't PK man, what are you doing this stuff for?? You're making the people who you kill feel bad (j/k man
:p )
Cheers,
L-A
I don't think commands should be taken away from a berserker, but I do think their current/max hp totals should be hidden from them. They likely can hardly register pain, much less keep track of their condition in their adrenaline overload state.
It would be like the downside of being able to do the bloodhaze effects, etc. Yes, you may be able to ignore your injuries, but you have to truely ignore them. To me berserker rage has always been more than just not running away and frenzy in battle, it is also about the collapsing from wounds and exhaustion afterwards. The added hp in rage addresses this to an extent, but full blown rage would leave all recognition of dropping health in the dust.
The three paths of berserkers have more potential than I think is currently being utilized. This is just another part that could seperate those who truely loose themselves in rage, and those who only get their feet wet.
Why is everyone set on making it harder for bersekers? The class doesn't have it easy at the moment you know. Rage - the defining skill - has to be carefully used since you can't get out of combat (anger can, but it takes time) and you risk coming out and dying when you lose the extra hp.
How about leaving them for the moment and seeing how the new changes affect them. Personally, I think they will still be the mage/communer bashers and melee bitches they always were.
L-A
My suggestion actually would not be intended to make them harder. It would entail some sort of buff for the class along with not knowing their hp and further seperate them from warriors.
Hey Dey - you said you couldn't PK man, what are you doing this stuff for?? You're making the people who you kill feel bad (j/k man
Cheers,
L-A
Yeah, so when I say 75% of the people I killed, that means I killed one and a half people. 
As much as I like berserkers, the only thing that niggles me is that their "offensive capabilities" seem to lack. Mages and communers can really have the damage piled on them, I agree. But they also only have one/two defenses (excluding BMGs) and a well dressed Warrior can achieve the same with fourth attack and riposte.
As far as fighting melees go, trying to beat any sort of even half-decently dressed warrior or blademaster is ridiculous - for a class that sacrifices defensive abilities for extreme offensive power, I didn't really see anything much more on the offensive side. I'll try to find any logs if I can, but most fights I had with these two classes involved around 2-3 attacks hitting my per round, and me hitting them maybe once every other round. Raging is pointless against melees unless you use it as 'surprise damage' when the enemy is close to death as the boost to hit/dam just isn't enough to outweight the significant beatings you recieve as a result of raging. Sometimes I would try for a rage, and I'd still see a couple of rounds worth of my attacks blocked, with the odd attack landing every so often, just that bit harder. The only reason I won any fights that I did win against Warriors and Blademasters, that weren't poorly dressed, was because of Haymaker and then letting the WM skills do the damage. There was also the fight with Askarran, where the only damage I did all fight, was the scratches from dirt kick. 
Of course, these are only my personal experiences, and aren't exactly an accurate representation of the classes strength. Because one thing I didn't utilize enough is Weapon Cleave/Shield Cleave. But the reason being, that even with Weapon Cleave mastered, it just didn't work enough to make it worthwhile. Now I was told IG, by quite a few people, that it was down to my weapon choice. 100% in Weapon Cleave, 103% in polearm, and a heavy polearm - didn't work much, and I don't know the reasons why that is a bad cleave choice, STILL, after playing two pinned Zerks. Heavy axes worked, but realistically, double-grip an Axe against a Warrior or Blademaster, and fail one or two weapon cleaves, you're just asking to get pounded on hard.
It may sound as if I'm making Zerks out to be weak/underpowered, I'm not. I still think they could use a minor tweak, but they're certaintly not underpowered. If anything, I just couldn't utilize a Zerk to it's full potential. But to me, they are a LOT more EQ-dependant than any other class in the game, simply because you need to be pretty decked to have a good fighting chance against other melees (excluding Cabal choices).
Dey
In my time as a zerk (Stone WM Glad) I found that there are some great and not so great things - many the same as you:
Vs battlemages I used a powergripped norem polearm and I was able to win most of the time. Its a hard battle but they are very well equipped to deal with melee. Haymaker was everything to me here. That and dirt;sleep if I couldn't rage.
Necro's aren't worth fighting as a giant sized Glad. If I had been able to fly it still would have been a real nasty battle. Fast. Hard. Someone is going to die - quickly and horribly.
Communers MAY be hammered. I chose path of fury and forever regretted it when I couldn't haymaker communers (though I'm sure it made my cleaving skills da bomb). Cut down a lot of my damage right here. Still, with rage and weapon choice you could put a good hurt on them. Like you say - its not more than a warrior can do and they don't have to risk rage. Headbutt always worked nicely though when I raged and needed to get out :-)
Rogues were meat. I let a ninja strangle, blind and poison me in the arena and still won without fleeing. I think the only thief to kill me was Azantar in my early days (his impeccable timing always meant I was down on hp from another battle when he struck). I think by the end I could have won those battles, though he never showed up when I wanted him too - funny that. 
Don't even bother with a shield vs a thief, just put on flails or axes and rage and bodyslam.
Melee types tool you. End of story. I fought rangers who would dual axes and kill me while I powergripped my norem avg 31 polearm. I fought warriors who didn't need vials because they had dirt/pugil. The warriors I fought I beat due to weaponcleave and WM skills. DKs were a pain too, not quite as bad but a very, very dicely battle since they are full offense and you can't risk that vs a DK as a zerk. Paladins got beat up as fast as invokers.
Monks were never hard - dual axes and haymaker and I had it made.
There were no blademasters during my time on my stone zerk.
I'm also surprised you had so much trouble cleaving people's weapons. I had 75% (maybe 76%?) weaponcleave and got every weapon I went after by the second go. Almost always on the first go. I was fury so powergrip may be picking up the slack here - but polearms are THE weapon to cleave with. Although I used mainly axes, I did use my polearm from time to time. I remember a Savant battlemage losing 5 cabal weapons over the course of a week.
Shield cleave is nice vs communer but they flee everytime it happens or just go and get burnproof shields.
I found the cleaving skills to be nice for a while but (like disarm for warriors) once you face skilled players or players get have fought you a handful of times they are useless and you are back to relying on weapon choice and dirt to get your damage through.
I agree that with the huge offensive capabilities advertised I found my berserker lacking at times - they seemed more like a class that hit certain classes REALLY hard but were almost completely at the mercy of others.
Cheers,
L-A
Same story with Warriors for me - I used to play the long, long attrition game where I would haymaker sanctuary and flee, repeat until I could get them out of it - got to the point where they just stopped using it (or ran out) and still beat me.
Dey
I agree that with the huge offensive capabilities advertised I found my berserker lacking at times - they seemed more like a class that hit certain classes REALLY hard but were almost completely at the mercy of others.
And that's how it should be.
I say we quit with this whole warrior, zerker, etc stuff. A lot of people on here are expecting Behrens to turn into a democrat and start giving handouts if they whine long enough that their preferred race/class combo isn't "working." Neither is FL a shinning example of perfect Communism, case in point certain race/class combos work well against certain other race/class combos and vice versa, that's the way it should be. That's the WHOLE reason for the change to EQ years ago. Even before then things weren't a given, ask Grishnak about his spats with Velimir's psi. Ask Crypt if Smash still got slept by Harishin, ask Auzzie if Kentry still got slept, ask Viri what happend to Gorath against Alex's cleric. Hell, Harishin still died, twice to Viri right?
Yes there are those that are lacking but to hell with the idea that those should be given perks, tone ups, tone downs, etc. FL is more balanced than just about anything in the world.
The only thing worth looking into in this entire section of the forum is Grish's post about c/c. But thats an old, old problem, specially with clerics based upon people liking their shinies, thus they choose a low risk, high survival rate combo.
A lot of people on here are expecting Behrens to turn into a democrat and start giving handouts if they whine long enough that their preferred race/class combo isn't "working."
Best quote of the day.
I have nothing else to add to this thread at this time.
DVD, who are you? Obviously an old, old fart...
You're post is very well said. I've always liked zerks for their ability to romp C/Cs, especially minotaurs (everyone knows I've become anti caster lately...but they're so damned fun). They get rocked hard by warriors, haven't seen them against blademasters, but I'd imagine they can hold their own. But hell, if warriors are the only class that really kicks your butt I say you've got it made in the shade. I'd much rather that than the huge weakness to something like invokers, because warriors suffer much more from their mistakes and they can't be prepared 98% of the time like the C/Cs out there.
And Velimir...my God I miss those fights. I really wish I had some logs of those..it took me days to figure out a way to fight against that guy appropriately, and then it was a blast. I still remember falling for the old "Lock Grish in a room with a huge mob and take his item" trick that he pulled...bastard. You still around Veli?
Miss Velimir too, where are you man? Probably too busy with real life.
And that's how it should be.
I say we quit with this whole warrior, zerker, etc stuff. A lot of people on here are expecting Behrens to turn into a democrat and start giving handouts if they whine long enough that their preferred race/class combo isn't "working." Neither is FL a shinning example of perfect Communism, case in point certain race/class combos work well against certain other race/class combos and vice versa, that's the way it should be. That's the WHOLE reason for the change to EQ years ago. Even before then things weren't a given, ask Grishnak about his spats with Velimir's psi. Ask Crypt if Smash still got slept by Harishin, ask Auzzie if Kentry still got slept, ask Viri what happend to Gorath against Alex's cleric. Hell, Harishin still died, twice to Viri right?
Yes there are those that are lacking but to hell with the idea that those should be given perks, tone ups, tone downs, etc. FL is more balanced than just about anything in the world.
The only thing worth looking into in this entire section of the forum is Grish's post about c/c. But thats an old, old problem, specially with clerics based upon people liking their shinies, thus they choose a low risk, high survival rate combo.
Watch out. They'll start calling you hostile and a know-it-all.
I remember popping in on Smash with Aberrant in CC and landing sleep, then having a clinic. His first pdeath I think, made me feel warm and fuzzy.
A lot of people on here are expecting Behrens to turn into a democrat and start giving handouts if they whine long enough that their preferred race/class combo isn't "working."
My idea was neither am attempt to toneup or tone down the berserkers, but just something I thought would be really fun, thats all.
I don't give a damn about balancing, the old bards were probably the most unbalanced class in the game but for me they were also the most fun.
My idea was neither am attempt to toneup or tone down the berserkers, but just something I thought would be really fun, thats all.
I don't give a damn about balancing, the old bards were probably the most unbalanced class in the game but for me they were also the most fun.
Friends dont let friends roll bards