Newbie Channel

As it stands, you can currently only access the newbie channel if you are rank 1-10, an adventurer, or have been given special access by the Immortals.

Now, a lot of people when playing a game for the first time, like to get straight into the thick of things. I for one, would never play the Adventurer class when coming new, because I like to get right into the thick of it and learn as I go along (not saying the Adventurer is redundant, it is very useful for new players).

So, getting to my point, these players might struggle a bit past rank 10 if they have a vital question of sorts that might be quite tricky to ask/get an answer ICly, especially for a new RPer who is getting to grips with the whole RP/IC system. ESPECIALLY if they have gotten to rank 10 very quickly, which can happen often if they get with a strong power-ranking group.

What do you think to raising the maximum rank to 30 for the newbie channel? This will provide a good length of time for newer players to get to grips with the MUD whilst having an OOC help channel available to them. It will also increase the range of people who will be able to provide answers. And for those who don't want to use the newbie channel, it can always be turned off, like most channels can.

I can't really see any bad in this idea, and it will definately be of help for new players. I raised a similar idea before, but didn't really hear much feedback on it.

Thoughts?

Dey

Meh...not so sure about raising the newb chat. Especially to thirty. People get bored, they're training, and they have access to an OOC line. It's bad enough some people even have it at all at low levels. There's a few that like to use it to as a general chat when they're writing descriptions or feel like chiming in on some question a newb asked then running off topic with it.

Maybe raise it to 15 (not sure what good it'll do to raise it five levels, but it might just be the trick) then send out a message that you have lost the newbie chat and you may join the Academy in Rheydin. (Let's face it, nobody pays much attention to the newb areas at a new mud because they've mudded before and think they know their stuff. Academy often gets overlooked in this way I think. The majority of newbs looking in on FL have probably had some form of mudding experience. They're only newbs to us.)

Personally, I think the Academy is great. Just put a cork in Ravanex's rum-filled pirate mouth and we'll be all set.

As it stands' date=' you can currently only access the newbie channel if you are rank 1-10, an adventurer, or have been given special access by the Immortals.[/quote']

Or a herald or part of an Academy Professor (does it still exisit??).

I think to rank 30 is a bit much for everyone - if you are asking questions of your groups you'll learn what you need to by then.

Cheers,

L-A

life sucks. wear a helmet.

we all were newbs once and yet some how we were able to get to 50 and learn to kill. MUDs are not games to be played for 5 minutes when you're bored. They're hobbies. Put in the time, get good results. Put in half the time, get half-assed results. Put in a quarter of the time....

I'm not anti-newbie. But I have four issues with all this bending over backwards for newbs:

1. Something given for free has no value. If you make it too easy to get gear, get caballed, and get pinn'ed, it becomes worthless.

2. It doesn't make FL better. The theory that being OVERLY newbie friendly is good doesn't hold water. You get players that will leave when they start getting man-handled (or women-handled) by vets. I stayed for the challenge and because I wanted to be that egotistical prick handing out ***-kickings like stripclub flyers.

3. It breeds more whiners than we already have. I'm not picking on you, Jester, but you will make a recent example. People actually complain that they looged off behind a locked door and got stuck. In the "old days", we would make sure that we had recalls or that we went outside of the area before we quit.

4. It creates a player base that expects the staff (and other players) to bend over backwards for them. Changes like keys everywhere, corpse-protection, and damage dampening at low levels are all forms of coddling. Where does it end? No levels? Instant level 50? Level based equipment?

I know a lot of that was rediculous. But most of this seems rediculous to me.

Edit: (forgot the last section) The solution is in game help. I think that the worst part of the new clan-cabal system is the loss of clans for causes. The beauty of the old Academy (when it was running) was that anyone could teach. Any cabal (or non-cabaled) could be represented. Who wants to get classes on killing from a Herald? The old clan system needs reintroduced. Call them organizations, societies, or whatever. I really think they need brought back if only for the Academy.

Ding. My 2 cents are up.

EDITED for various reasons and thoughts....excuse me while I try to reboot...

deleted... not needed.

Just like to address, that I am not talking about making the MUD easier in a technical sense.

1. Something given for free has no value. If you make it too easy to get gear, get caballed, and get pinn'ed, it becomes worthless.

I'm not talking about making things easier in terms of getting gear, getting Caballed, getting levels easier. Broadening the range of the newbie channel doesn't do any of what you just mentioned, apart from maybe at the very least, pointing a new player in the direction of a lowbie hunting spot or some lowbie EQ, which I admit, both can be found in 'help tour' and by asking IG. But that aside, the newbie channel isn't there exactly to give out where to find phat lewt or where to hunt. It doesn't cater for people wanting to hunt or organise gear parties. It certaintly doesn't cater in any way, shape or form, towards making it easier to get Caballed.

1. It doesn't make FL better. The theory that being OVERLY newbie friendly is good doesn't hold water. You get players that will leave when they start getting man-handled (or women-handled) by vets. I stayed for the challenge and because I wanted to be that egotistical prick handing out ***-kickings like stripclub flyers.

Of course some people will leave when they start getting beat down. Again, just extending the range of the newbie channel won't make the MUD overly newbie-friendly. Yes, there are players that can stick around and jump right in as a newbie, take everything in their stride and pick the ropes up quickly. Are you saying we should only cater to the elite, or the potentially elite? I'm not neccessarily saying to cater hand-and-foot to the people who get all uppity and whiney when they can't take the pace, but honest people willing to put effort in, but might be slow learners, who may need a push in the right direction as far as basic gameplay/technical questions go. I fall under that category I think, and there are times as a newbie I would have killed for the newbie channel at a little higher of a rank than 10 with my first character. You say it doesn't help the MUD? I think it does, even if it does just a little bit. And you know what? It certaintly doesn't harm it IMO.

1. It breeds more whiners than we already have. I'm not picking on you, Jester, but you will make a recent example. People actually complain that they looged off behind a locked door and got stuck. In the "old days", we would make sure that we had recalls or that we went outside of the area before we quit.

I don't see how broadening the range of the newbie channel creates more whiners, whatsoever. On the contrary, taking our example.#, think of how many newbies get past level 10 without a recall potion. If they got stuck behind a door and didn't know why they got stuck behind it or what to do, at least somebody could inform them not to quit out behind a locked door and that keys don't save when you quit. Information like that most certaintly doesn't alter any balance of the game or 'coddle' newbies like you mention in other points, it just informs them of basic gameplay information.

1. It creates a player base that expects the staff (and other players) to bend over backwards for them. Changes like keys everywhere, corpse-protection, and damage dampening at low levels are all forms of coddling. Where does it end? No levels? Instant level 50? Level based equipment?

Where are you getting this from? The newbie channel does not create a playerbase that expects the staff to bend over backwards for them - it is to deal with basic gameplay questions and issues. I feel to see how raising the level cap on newbie channel, so more people can ask more questions and more people can answer them, correlates with changes to 'coddle' people.

Going to Valek's points, I really like that idea, moreso than my own. Especially if they were also given a pointer in the direction of 'help tour', a help-file that I had never even heard of, and wouldn't really do anything more than give them a pointer towards some very simple, widespread information to help them off.

Dey

(This is not a flame as I understand the response to my post was not a flame.)

My reply wasn't 100% aimed at your idea. I would have quoted you, etc. if it were. It was a response to the idea that newbies need more help. Your suggestion was for in-game, out-of-character help. My response was, in short, they should ask for help in character since they already have enough help.

But I do have to bust your chops a little: "think of how many newbies get past level 10 without a recall potion". The answer is all of them. I don't know if you can even buy a recall <10. Lowbies can recall using a secret command (syntax: recall or /).

Myrek, you made a lot of excellent points. Even though raising the newbie channel level might help some players it still falls into the overall idea of making things easier for noobs. When I started here I didnt know a damn thing about the lands, but I had mudded before. I think I might have used the newb channel once or twice, but why I stayed here was for the no OOC, so when I found out there was a noob channel that was ooc I kinda shyed away from it. If you want to make things easier for noobs roll a friendly character and go find and help them. I still owe whoever plays/played Guyzan tons of respect for teaching my first character a lot fo stuff about locations, equpping, etc. All done IC not on a noob channel. Which is far more rewarding.

You've got a great idea goin', Dey.

I like to help newbies....I like to help them A LOT! I make sure that when I have access to the newbie channel, I let them know I'm there to answer their questions. And you're right, for those new to the mud and it's RP, sometimes you just aren't quite sure what's an acceptable saying for something IC.

I'm behind you 100% for this. And don't worry, you can hide behind Big Pappa Valek from the mean, nasty vets. It's all bark....unless you find them in game, then there might be some bite, but I have tetanus shots and rabies shots for that.

On the flip side of the coin, I also get irritated by newbs. They can be brash, ungrateful, whiny....oh Lord was I whiny when I started. You'd think I was the only person to ever get PKed that year. And, as much as I usually avoid it in game, I kill and full loot. It's harsh, but it's a learning experience. Which is why I've decided maybe I'll stick to goods.

Sheesh, come here Dey, I NEED A HUG! I think I feel a Reverend Valek post comin' on!

Here's my suggestions:

Give clans a different name.

Give the clan replacements some minor powers at Member or higher.

Reinstitute the old clans.

Right now the clans are nothing more than work pools for the cabals. They need a purpose.

I can only speak for how I learned. I ranked to 30-35 over and over until I got cabaled. Between the practice and interaction with cabal members, I learned to plat at that level. Once cabaled at 30, I was able to learn the rest of the game up to 50. I agree that there is a void of aid between 15 and 50. I think the old cabals filled that role.

But I do have to bust your chops a little: "think of how many newbies get past level 10 without a recall potion". The answer is all of them. I don't know if you can even buy a recall <10. Lowbies can recall using a secret command (syntax: recall or /).

Yeah, you're right, you can't buy recall potions (at least not from the major vendors) prior to rank 10.

I can see what you're saying, but from the point of view of someone who burns through 60 lives of a character in 10 minutes and thus has plenty of characters in newbie chat, I always see plenty of questions being asked about the MUD that perhaps couldn't be answered (at least, not very clearly) ICly. Plenty of questions, especially from what appears to be someone's first character, that make me think, "Wow, he's better get all his question answering in before rank 10". I do agree with IC help being a lot better, but there are questions that are quite hard to word ICly, especially as a beginner, and the IC answers can be even more mystifying. Either that, or I sucked big-time a lot more than most when I started MUDding.

This is no longer about my idea anyway. I'm pushing for Valek's - you can hardly call 5 extra levels and a little prompt pointing them in the direction of the academy (and perhaps 'help tour') coddling or hand-holding, in the world of harsh, harsh PKing that awaits them.

Dey

Here's my suggestions:

Give clans a different name.

Give the clan replacements some minor powers at Member or higher.

Reinstitute the old clans.

Right now the clans are nothing more than work pools for the cabals. They need a purpose.

I can only speak for how I learned. I ranked to 30-35 over and over until I got cabaled. Between the practice and interaction with cabal members, I learned to plat at that level. Once cabaled at 30, I was able to learn the rest of the game up to 50. I agree that there is a void of aid between 15 and 50. I think the old cabals filled that role.

How did the old-style clans work? Were clans still 'part' of a Cabal, or were they something completely seperate (such as player-made clans, and the like)?

Old clans were just clans. Player ran, some affiliated, some not, with cabals. The Academy had members from almost every cabal and it made the Academy more worthwhile, as Myrek pointed out.

Now they're mostly work pools for the cabals, but they also promote a closeness and a help that's more wide spread within the good clans, sometimes in the evil/neutral ones. I've also seen a TON more RP going into cabals. They make an excellent resource as work pools. I just wish we could get representatives from the cabals into the Academy somehow without depriving them of their respective clan.

I agree that the newbie channel should be extended. The newbie channel's purpose is to give gameplay mechanics information.

I see two arguments against the newbie channel thus far:

1. People get off topic and it becomes a chatline.

2. Helping newbies too much creates the wrong atmosphere for the game.

1: This is a problem of staff and player moderation. If chatline-type conversations are not discouraged strongly/frequently enough, of course they will occur. This kind of argument is very redundant, as it is the same as: We should not allow MUDs, because some people will multi and break rules. If the enforcement of the newbie channel is a problem, then it is a staff issue. Raising or lowering the newbie channel's level cut off is not going to seriously help or provoke this problem.

1. I was very amazed to see so many people against the newbie channel based on this argument. To me, all the newbie channel is just an expanded helpfile database. If you argue against the newbie channel, saying it gives too much information to newbies, you must also argue against the help system for the same reason. The newbie channel exists due to the incredibly difficult task of making a perfect help system that can answer any question from newbies.

Cabals: I'm not sure why you people are so against letting newbies into cabals. Because cabals are the elite super pkers of the game? A newbie has almost the same RP potential as most vets (if not waaay more)..they just falter in the mechanics of PK. I don't know back in the old days for Myrek, but back in MY day (early 1.0), the staff would trans you out and sit there ooc with your rank 40 char teaching you how to do crap and eventually cabal you for being an idiot. Newbies must be ENCOURAGED, not given the sink or swim elite-traing calibur trials by spam death (look at Deykari's chars..he is putting an honest attempt to learn the game well; good personality; forum access; trying hard...but he is still getting whopped very hard (condeathing)..is it because he is more stupid, slow, whatever than us? No (seriously!)..he is living in the sink or die situation, and it isn't very condusive for learning..it works..just very inefficient).

All of us were newbies when we were first caballed...let's NOT set the standard so high that even we (the elite vets :S) wouldn't have been able to reach it.

So in the end, these are my ideas on the matter:

1. Newbie channel access should be ALWAYS allowed for adventurers, all the way up to rank 30, no matter how many hours.

2. More access to the newbie channel from non-newbies to help flesh it out. All the people who are elder+ in a clan can be given newbie channel access as a general rule.

3. People can have access to the newbie channel until rank 15 or 50 hours into their char, whichever comes LATER. This accounts for people who power rank and for newbies that take more than 50 hours to start ranking up.

Valek properly described the old clan system. They were roleplaying tools. The best part was that they crossed cabals if applicable. This clan system is just a halfassed extension of the cabal.

re: celerity

I started the November after beta.

I'm not against having the newbie channel go from 1 to 101. But I see issues attached to it. I see most turning it off because 1) people don't bother reading the help file, 2) people ignore the mud school, and 3) too much OOCBS.

It isn't rocket surgery. IMMs can already assign the channel to whoever they want to.

i see no down side to extending it to 15 or even to 20.

I'd personally offer anyone any meager advice I would be capable of in general to anyone new. From how to speak to what to say to make hteir characters colorful.

I just wish I weren't so apt to screw up with pmote and smote. Or I'd use those liberally as well. -laughs- Though itd take longer to type since you can't precisely alias those off.

Some can be jerks or dumb. Others can just be honestly naive or just learning the ropes so you can't be all that hard. Usually the ones that are the former wouldn't contribute anything or try anyways and you'll find are better off not around anyways.

And mister. Nobody is going to roll a friendly character to help people, or dont you notice hardly anyone plays healers. (knights are on an upswing but so are nexus watcher and pretty much anyone else whod chop off a head for a nice bounty or to pad a record too. and hey they dont know youre so new until afterwards right. and adv's cant get everywhere at rank thirty.)

I'd be all for upping academy membership or rolling another Herald wannabe this time. Especially if they'd have me. -shrug-

Also I remember Guyzan, he was stellar.

If only I could pk for crap I would actually be able to survive to get in Herald

Or give Mister Shady Malanith Bad you know what headhunter god dude some trophies.

-laughs-

Or give Mister Shady Malanith Bad you know what headhunter god dude some trophies.-laughs-

Heads and gold, if you please.

PS I swear Celerity might soon become one of my heroes haha