Making magic resist races not able to self poison at all might be cool. It would make being resistant to magic a double edged sword.
I don't think being slept etc as one would be a huge deal as nothing seems to land against sleeping targets.
Weakness to sleep tactics could be a cool nerf.
39 minutes ago, Wade said:
Making magic resist races not able to self poison at all might be cool. It would make being resistant to magic a double edged sword.
I don't think being slept etc as one would be a huge deal as nothing seems to land against sleeping targets.
Weakness to sleep tactics could be a cool nerf.
This was done originally when the first change to poison "missing" was changed, it had huge backlash and Erelei reverted it so they could poison themselves. Herbal Brews don't work on magic resist races, you need to source a higher level poison in a certain container, so there is some prep work to be done.
Here is the first time it was changed like that.
Isn't it ironic that what I changed years ago (and subsequently reverted) is now being suggested as a balancing tactic now? :)
I think it just shows that when you have an open brainstorm session about balance that you will inevitably get good and bad ideas.
Removing poison is a bad idea. It’s been said many, many times that Virigoth HATED self-poisoning, but conceded that it was necessary in order to survive against classes that can put you to sleep.
Halflings don’t need to be touched. They are fine as is. We’ve had two strong halflings since blademasters were removed from their selectable classes. Two. And we’ve established that Danpher is strong from the thief gladiator combo and not the halfling part.
I don’t really understand where this decision is coming from when there are other, arguably, more important balancing changes that need to be done.
There are no decisions. We gave the option to the players to discuss, and it's quite clear where they stand.
Instead of saying "this decision is dumb", or "why are we even discussing this", perhaps we could take it a different direction, like, "this is why it's not as powerful as perceived", "let's discuss why this appears like it is", etc.
We involved the player base because we're always hearing "Why was this changed? This is dumb!" or "Why wasn't this changed? What's going on?"
We're looking for constructive feedback. If you don't want to contribute, then don't. That simple. Seeing posts over and over about "man why are we even talking about this" just makes us not want to involve the player base in these discussions anymore.
I don’t think anyone said it’s dumb. I think people, myself especially, don’t understand where the belief that halflings are OP originated from. The posts from the Staff haven’t explained their point of view or reasoning which only adds to the disconnect you’re experiencing.
i have given constructive feedback. I suggested potentially changes if it must happen, but have also disagreed with the decision as a whole as there are much larger issues that could be tackled, and I’d go so far as to say halflings are not an issue at all.
If that line of questioning or disagreement bothers you, then maybe open forum discussion isn’t for you. And that’s not a dig, but me just saying not every avenue works the best for every person is all.
We haven't posted any official opinions because the whole point was to ask for the playerbase's. We don't want to influence it one way or the other. Sure, we comment on what is being said, but it's more about encouraging the discussion. If we posted a topic like this, then never addressed what was said while it was being said, it would look like we don't actually care. Defeats the whole purpose.
What we want is constructive feedback. There are a hundred different arguments to be made, and everyone has their own idea of balance. Thank you for making yours known.
15 hours ago, Erelei said:
Isn't it ironic that what I changed years ago (and subsequently reverted) is now being suggested as a balancing tactic now? :)
I think @Wade was referring to something else other than removing poison for magic resist races entirely.
17 hours ago, Wade said:
Making magic resist races not able to self poison at all might be cool. It would make being resistant to magic a double edged sword.
I don't think being slept etc as one would be a huge deal as nothing seems to land against sleeping targets.
Weakness to sleep tactics could be a cool nerf.
I feel that magic resist races should be more susceptible to sleep tactics as well. They seem nearly invincible against them when I don't think they were meant to. Hence my 'spells lower while sleeping' idea would fit in here while making the portable packs heavier/nouncurse/nodrop maybe?
Magic resist races are more susceptible to sleep tactics.
Hunger thirst does not wakes you from blackjack.
So you need a ninja or thief to poison a water container to prevent being put to sleep. That said, even if they have access:
Thieves can steal the said container, or try to dispel it.
Ninjas cannot, but ninjas shouldn't be as dependent of poison as thieves. Unless they are lotus scourge. And it is said some paths can sleep through poison.
Necromancers shouldn't have an advantage, because Sleep is a spell and magic resistance is a protection vs spells. Still necros can exploit their smaller size.
There is also another thing most of you aren't aware. They aren't immune to poison. Their resistance is based on the duration of the poison.
And when the poison is about to run out, they no longer take damage, and thus will not awake, but are still under the effect of poison and cannot poison themselves again until it is removed/ends.
Just wanted to add I don't think Halflings are OP. Sure they are a nightmare for a CC, but Melees should have several advantages fighting one.
It's mainly thieves in Gladiator gaining something that no one else gains that it's troublesome.
After reading the Dace v Wuggo PK log - how feasible is it to make the halfling magic resist for SPELLS ONLY and not weapons? I'm pretty sure the RP behind halfling magic resistance is that they are so fleet of foot, they can dodge spells, correct? If I'm mistaken here, then this idea is kinda moot. But if the resistance isn't a natural resistance/toughness like it is with dwarves, then it would seem to make sense that if a magic weapon actually hits a halfling, it would hurt just as much as a mundane one.
The lore I believe is that they are a resilient race that is resistant to the effects of magic. A kin to LOTR and being resistant to the effects of the one ring. I think your suggestion fits that lore very well tbh.
Weapon selection is important for any fight, there are plenty of excellent physical noun weapons to crush Halflings with. With the new items these days that over inflate magic A.C, you want to be using physical weapons anyway.
What about against dual resist halfllings? What weapon type is good against them?
Magic ac inflated? That's news. On a recent invoker and bmg -640 ac. Has -590's for magic.
If size is meant to be their weakness then maybe they shouldn't be allowed to use the boots of stomping and/or enlarge.
How is a halfling being resistant to all types of weapon any different to a feral covering his fire vuln. 🤔
1 hour ago, Wade said:
If size is meant to be their weakness then maybe they shouldn't be allowed to use the boots of stomping and/or enlarge.
How is a halfling being resistant to all types of weapon any different to a feral covering his fire vuln. 🤔
They aren't resistant to all types of weaponry. They are MAGIC resistant. Feral get fury and mini-haste, thus the fire vuln.
If a watcher halfling can get physical resist through elemental call doesn't that effectively give them resistance to all weapons?
Yes, it does.
Double resistance is not the same as covering a vuln.
Still questionable though.
That's one cabal that synergizes for Halflings, same synergy can be said for Fire Giants with Nexus Avg 31 fire cabal weapons, any Giant mage solving their mana issues with Savants vortex tap and reverse time. Syndicate Spy assisting a Vampire to find their enemy during the Night.
Some cabal skill synergy works well with certain races, but you need both for it to click.
As for Kyzarius' s comment, magic A.C is very easy to stack over the other values now, Obsidian leaves? Clay hair?
Manual Labour, Nexus Reaver is the answer to your question.
Can fire giant discord clerics still get dual resist or was that changed?
I don't personally believe halfllings are OP, so let me say that first.
Of course certain cabal combos can reach tremendous power peaks, and that is also fine with me.
All that said I still dont know how balanced dual resists are.