Hellstream Drop Spell Saves

Back in the day, hellstream destroyed items with saves, rendering the person's saves lower, making other spells viable. My old strategy was to hellstream in round 1, destroy saves eq, then run, heal, and come back with other spells (flame arrow/fire shield often) as I now know they don't have saves.

My last invoker that strategy was epic fail because hellstream only damages eq...but still seems to provide the saves? Means I can't attrition.

Hellstream should either render items where they don't provide saves until repaired, or should drop saves directly as an affect.

2 hours ago, Aidon said:

Back in the day, hellstream destroyed items with saves, rendering the person's saves lower, making other spells viable. My old strategy was to hellstream in round 1, destroy saves eq, then run, heal, and come back with other spells (flame arrow/fire shield often) as I now know they don't have saves.

My last invoker that strategy was epic fail because hellstream only damages eq...but still seems to provide the saves? Means I can't attrition.

Every self respecting player who is good at PK has everything burnproofed (burnproven, burnprooved?), so the tactic you used back in the day will not work against better players.

Also, when you damage EQ with the "new " hellstream, it drops the piece i.e. it is not worn anymore and can not be worn until repaired (you can see a very good example of that in this very recent PK log).

So generally, it still work the same way as before, but a bit less annoying for the opposite side.

Doesn't it take multiple damages to make an armor "break" and then force remove?

It would take a lot of hellstreams t9 lower enemy saves in this way.

Yeah they never destroyed saves but the entire equipment piece as a whole. Saves equipment is more obtainable today plus theirs a new repair shop, should probably be two of them imho. Though I have an idea that could possibly make the tactic viable today.

Hellstream changes: Burnproof items can now be broken (not destroyed). However now only targets equipment with aff, men, mal saves. No more breaking other gear or inventory items.

22 minutes ago, tassinvegeta said:

Hellstream changes: Burnproof items can now be broken (not destroyed). However now only targets equipment with aff, men, mal saves. No more breaking other gear or inventory items.

Pretty nice idea.

Although, I think invokers are pretty strong as they are, so we wshould consider if they really need such a buff.

38 minutes ago, tassinvegeta said:

No more breaking other gear or inventory items.

I love to see someone's backpack suddenly scattered all over the ground.

4 hours ago, Magick said:

I love to see someone's backpack suddenly scattered all over the ground.

That is just cruel.

When I played Aidon (so a decent bit ago) I would often damage eq and people would still wear it. Is this a newish change where damaged armor in a hellstream is removed and can't be worn?

Also, have they introduced a new way to burnrpoof items or is it still CPs? It would have costed thousands and thousands to burnproof every item back in the day. But to be honest if the character is that decked I usually just went call lightning. 

My main point is that invokers used to have an attrition method for widdling aff saves down but on Aidon I had no way to really do that. Its problematic since they are 100% spell damage.

2 hours ago, Aidon said:

My main point is that invokers used to have an attrition method for widdling aff saves down...

Hellstream has never been an attrition method... if you've come to that conclusion then you've probably played them wrong.

Why not approach the subject by trying to re-learn how to play them, instead of asking to change something that would make them OP?

What I observed when my armour was damaged was that the ac multiplier was reduced. So my obsidian leaves for example, instead of giving me 2x - 33 magical AC, was only giving me 1x - 33 magical AC. Not such an advantage for the invoker, more just an annoyance and an expense to repair.

8 hours ago, f0xx said:

Hellstream has never been an attrition method... if you've come to that conclusion then you've probably played them wrong.

Why not approach the subject by trying to re-learn how to play them, instead of asking to change something that would make them OP?

He's not saying this is the only thing he ever does with an invoker.  He's saying in times when the opponent is decked with saves, this was an option.  I don't know if the language barrier, cultural differences, or what but you really need to drop this elitist "my way is the only way" attitude.

On 2/22/2019 at 2:23 AM, Ali_gmud said:

What I observed when my armour was damaged was that the ac multiplier was reduced. So my obsidian leaves for example, instead of giving me 2x - 33 magical AC, was only giving me 1x - 33 magical AC. Not such an advantage for the invoker, more just an annoyance and an expense to repair.

This is also what I observed on my last invoker. Far less helpful of an outcome for the invoker than how it worked before. 

As for making them OP...were they OP before? Maybe they were and this toned them? But also maybe it went a little too far and there's a middle ground between the two.