Monk Tuning skill set

I just wanted to throw this out there as a fine tuning for monks. I have played a lot of them and they are my favorite class to date. However recently I have been having trouble pinning one and I think it is because they are always the same. The changes I propose will give each monk some individuality, while compromising some of the flexibility they have. This makes them easier to play against some classes and harder against others dependant on the choices each player makes. The Weapon choices in the beginning should be of all weapon but only choose two. In addition to the staff skill that all monks should get. As it is they get six weapons. The first choice I propose is a monk path Offense or defense. When this choice is made the appropriate skills and stances are automatically filled in. The Path stance and path skills are not choices them selves. The Monk lore is another choice that automatically fills in the lore skills. And the final choice is the monk mastery. There are several new skills in here that I have come up with or have taken from other posts on the forum and each has a help file at the bottom. The last changes I propose is adding in enhanced damage and trance into the skill set of all monks.

In addition to the skill set, I propose opening up monks to neutrals as neutrals can be as fervent in there religions commitments as goods and evils. The current reason for not allowing them is that goods and evils are on the opposite ends of the spectrum and have firm religious beliefs. I think this was stated before the current religious system and is now a very weak reason.

I cannot come up with a final defensive stance so suggestions would be appreciated.

Level 1: Hand to hand, Scrolls, Staves,

Staff , Dodge, [Weapon Choice],

[Weapon Choice], Recall

Level 2: Beads

Level 4: Marital arts b

Level 5: Dirt Kicking

Level 6: Kick

Level 9: Enhanced damage

Level 10: fast healing, Meditation

Level 11: First Parry

Level 12: Kick Boxing b

Level 13: Disarm, Shield Disarm, Lore

Lever 14: Sneak

Level 15: Monk Path [offensive, defensive], Path stance [Tai Kuan Do, Judo]

Path skill [Offense: Chii, Defense: Aura]

Level 16: double Kick, Sense

Level 17: trance (paladin style)

Level 18: Martial arts a, Blind Fighting

Level 20: Path Skill [Defense Second Parry, Offense, trip]

Level 21: Healing

Level 23: Kick Boxing b

Level 25: Path stance [Tiger, Drunk], Sense Motion

Level 27: Path skill [Defense: balance, Offense: Air thrash]

Level 30: Monk lore [Anatomy lore, Force Lore], Lore Skill [anatomy lore: anatomy, Force lore: Divine Power]

Level 32: Catalepsy,Fasting

Level 33: Offhand disarm

Level 34: Path skill [Offense: Chii Bolt, Defense: Mantis]

Level 35: Path stance [Offense: Monkey, Defense: Buddha]

Level 40: Monk lore [Anatomy: Chakara, Power: Hand to Hand Mastery (to 110%)]

Level 41: Path skill [Offense:Throw down, Defense: Counter]

Level 45: Path Stance [Offense: Dragon, Defense: ????]

Level 50: Monk Mastery [staff form, Spiritual Mantra, Beads element, Speed mastery, Power Fist, Anatomical Degeneration]

Divine Power

When a monk engages another of an opposing aligned religion (life and death, Order and Chaos) they tend to get a bit of help from their chosen God. The monk will hit slightly harder and more often and will resist some of the negative affects of magical combat.

[should be something like +* hit, +* dam, -*save mal where *=level/10]

Staff form

A monk at times in his life may need a walking stick, as such they may use it in combat in place of their hands using the martial arts and kickboxing skills they already poses. They will also be able to parry and use the weapon as a two handed weapon. No Monk may carry a cursed staff! (Only a monk who has studied the offensive ways may choose this)

Spiritual Mantra

When in this mantra Monks will gain much more benefit from making their beads and will regenerate much more mental power when meditating. Also when in their temple or shrine the monk’s god will watch over them and warn them of oncoming attacks and divinely empower any counter attacks.

Elemental Beads

When monks make their beads they may imbue their beads with a elemental chii. Such chii may include Fire, Ice, Water, Air, Light, Holy, Dark, and plain wooden beads.

[Dark should make an anti-good flag, and holy should make an antil-evil flag]

Speed mastery

Monks who focus on this will not only gain an occasional extra attack but may recover faster from performing actions such as dirt kicking and disarming, and also may be less affected by being tripped or bashed. (Only a monk who has studied the defensive ways may choose this)

Power Fist

The Monks of this style have been known to shatter many things with there bare hands, when a monk hits properly there is a chance they will do much more damage than normal resulting in crushed ribs and appendages. In addition if one of these attacks is parried the weapon may be disarmed or even shattered. (Only one who has studied power rather than anatomies may choose this mastery)

Anatomical Degeneration

Any monk who is proficient at anatomies may, when performing a chakra strike, place a small amount of his or her own chii inside the body of the victim rendering that particular part of the body useless or ill. Also until the chii has dissipated the monk will be able to tell the general direction of the other combatant. [A strike in the stomach may cause dysentery. Or in the head for confusion] (Only a master of anatomies may choose this)

Throw Down

This skill can be used by a monk to stun his opponent just as combat begins. The monk will grab his opponent and hurl him to the ground resulting in a many bruises and scrapes. Because of the speed and force this attack has a low chance of being countered, though fighters with exceptional balance have been known to escape unharmed. (A charge like initiating attack with low counter probability but affected by balance.)

Fasting

Through years of intense training in meditation and self control monks are able to control there appetites. When fasting monks will not need food or water for extended periods of time. However, monks need to be full of both in order to start this process. Eventually the monk will become hungry and with the extended lack of food will much more quickly be brought to their knees by it. Consumption of alcohol and drugs will cease a monks fasting immediately.

Stances

Tae Kwon-Do- Crane

Judo- Horse

Kung Fu- Tiger

Drunken Boxing- Drunk

Ju Jitsu- Monkey

Buddha- ???

Dragon-Ninjutsu

Need one more defensive stance too.

I've never really played any monks past the 30th rank so I can't rightly comment. But the only part I really like is the imbuing of the beads with powers.

you mean you have to choose between the abillity of defenzive or offenzive empowering? I think that would gimp monks to much.

It would to a certan degree, and help in other ways. You would no longer need to empower at all, eliminating that time period where monks are at their weakest, and also eliminate some of their adaptability. Whenever my monks have lost it was because their empowerment ended and I was unable to re-empower because I kept being enguaged. When I was empowered even if I was empowered wrong, I alwas stood a chance and did decently well. In my oppinion, it gives monks a bit of an advantage.

they get six weapons for a reason...it helps them survive. i really REALLY don't like the idea of taking out their weapon choices. about the only type of monks that might benefit from this would be ones using horse stance.

from the monks i've played them seem pretty decent as is. i think some of your suggestions would gimp the class too much. it also seems that some of the proposed skills you are using are trying to offset the gimpage by handing them overpowered skills (defence monk: balance + speed mastery, sounds almost like flight + pshield).

the elemental beads sounds like an interesting idea, but still seems like too much. same reason why having magic beads was taken out long ago.

the no empowerment idea is interesting, but that's one of the balancing factors of the class. monks are supposed to be able to fight anyone, anywhere. their penalty? having to concentrate and choose the right stance to survive. if you're close to losing empowerment in battle...run like hell, find a safe place (or at least safe enough that you can stay hidden for a couple of hours), or empower while running.

eh...my 2c

It would to a certan degree' date=' and help in other ways. You would no longer need to empower at all, eliminating that time period where monks are at their weakest, and also eliminate some of their adaptability. Whenever my monks have lost it was because their empowerment ended and I was unable to re-empower because I kept being enguaged. When I was empowered even if I was empowered wrong, I alwas stood a chance and did decently well. In my oppinion, it gives monks a bit of an advantage.[/quote']

Don't get me wrong. I'm saying that right now. But the way you have monks in this post totally gimps them. While the ideas are good, and some of it could be cool, taking away weapons, empowerment, and their survivabily to such a degree is totally unfair. While I can see why you'd like to see monks this way, it sounds like the problem you have is adapting.

NOTE: This is CONSTRUCTIVE.

Empowerment falls? Re-empower. Can't because of engaging? Don't let them engage. Empower your choice, and run like a bat out of hell is chasing you. Even when I have the wrong empowerment for the person I'm fighting, or the wrong stance. I re-empower, while running, yes. It isn't that hard to do if you can run. If you have problems with that, I highly suggest you train yourself to run better. Or...you could have a recall potion and re-engage later when you're prepared.

[/constructive criticism]

I believe monks are perfect the way they are, and the only idea for revamp I will EVER support is one that makes them as perfect as they are now, while spicing them up and perhaps making them more fun to play. Because I do agree with you, monks are almost all the same and can lose their spice.

maybe just take away a minor thing, and give them some small selectables, not very powerful? just to keep them a bit shiny new.

Taking away that many weapons would severly gimp them. And losing the lag on your skills by even a tic would overpower them to the umpteenth degree.

Monks wielding staffs? No way! thats totally against anything monks are about.

Elemental beads? Psh, can you say overpowered? Imagine a tiger claw or phantom strike with fire beads against a feral, it'd be worse than an assassinate.

I've seen monks do Manglels & ** demolishes to sanced opponents without using any vulns.

(With their regular attacks)

I love monks, in every possible way. I love their skills and their rp and everything. I hate all your changes. But monks do need something, I can play a monk up until level 40, then I get mass murdered. And that's the only problem. But there have been a few at 50 that did alright.

Cancel this, I don't feel I've fought enough monks to be able to say it.

i just think they should have a little tweaking in stances.....for example no one uses tiger during PvP and hardly anyone uses buddha......(its so hard to master!). Besides that everything else is possibly fine. oh yea I think a monk at 50 is the best time for it....because even at 30th you're so limited to stances and countering

just my opinion on the matter

What's being suggested is a bit of a drastic change to the class. Unless there are major problems with monks (which there aren't), they don't need such a drastic change. As a class, they are pretty tricky to get the hang of, but as far as balance goes, we've had the discussion before, and monks played properly can do pretty well. They might need just a minor boost perhaps.

The argument for your change is that monks are the same, and that makes it hard to pinn. I don't see how that makes it hard to pinnacle at all, really. But regardless, a lot of classes play the same. What makes many classes play differently is their race choice. Monks have a pretty basic race choice, but opening up the race choice wouldn't really change the way they play.

To broaden things up, I don't think that there needs to be a selection between stances; picking offensive over defensive would make it tricky when you need to defend well, and vice versa. Perhaps something similar to ninjitsu for ninjae - a small selectable skill that you could choose from, maybe a handful of options. They would be minor, enough to give a little variety of monks but not big enough to be a class overhaul or make monks drastically different. Maybe one of them could knock an hour from empower time. One of them could improve meditation rates. Perhaps one that could let them sneak without the MV penalty. I don't know, some of those may be unbalanced, but I haven't really thought it out much. Just spewing my thoughts.

I can see where you are coming from with the monk ideas, but honestly, I don't think they need a big overhaul.

Dey

EDIT: And forgot to mention what a lot of people bring about stances and being caught in the wrong stance. Perhaps if there was a way for monks to break stance and empowerment so that mid-battle it would switch their empowerment from def. to off. or vice versa. Normal restrictions would apply (normal tick times, no fighting whilst empowering) but it could come with penalties that apply whilst in your new state of empowerment (they would wear off when your empowerment wears off naturally). Penatlies would be cumulative to avoid continually switching between stances. If anything it could make for some interesting tactics in combat (switching stance to catch your foe off-guard). Would it be overpowered? Maybe. Something to think about and discuss anyway.

i just think they should have a little tweaking in stances.....for example no one uses tiger during PvP and hardly anyone uses buddha......(its so hard to master!). Besides that everything else is possibly fine. oh yea I think a monk at 50 is the best time for it....because even at 30th you're so limited to stances and countering

just my opinion on the matter

Do not take offense, but I do not believe you are playing your monk to its fullest potential if you do not use tiger and buddha. Tiger is perfect for those pesky clerics, while buddha is awesome for those damn necromancers, shaman, and occassionally invokers.

EDIT: And forgot to mention what a lot of people bring about stances and being caught in the wrong stance. Perhaps if there was a way for monks to break stance and empowerment so that mid-battle it would switch their empowerment from def. to off. or vice versa. Normal restrictions would apply (normal tick times' date=' no fighting whilst empowering) but it could come with penalties that apply whilst in your new state of empowerment (they would wear off when your empowerment wears off naturally). Penatlies would be cumulative to avoid continually switching between stances. If anything it could make for some interesting tactics in combat (switching stance to catch your foe off-guard). Would it be overpowered? Maybe. Something to think about and discuss anyway.[/quote']

That's something you can normally do in a fight, unless I misunderstand you. If I understand you, it is totally possible to change empowerment during combat, but normal factors do apply. You fight, you lose empowerment until you're done. Also, another neat thing, you change empowerment, you also lose your stance. Therefore it is entirely possible to go from empowered offensive in dragon stance, to defensive in buddha in the two ticks for empower and then using the stance. I don't understand how people can't run for 2 ticks to re-empower on the fly.

That's something you can normally do in a fight' date=' unless I misunderstand you. If I understand you, it is totally possible to change empowerment during combat, but normal factors do apply. You fight, you lose empowerment until you're done. Also, another neat thing, you change empowerment, you also lose your stance. Therefore it is entirely possible to go from empowered offensive in dragon stance, to defensive in buddha in the two ticks for empower and then using the stance. I don't understand how people can't run for 2 ticks to re-empower on the fly.[/quote']

I might (might: see probably am) be wrong then. It has been a long time since I played a monk, but I was always under impression that you couldn't change whilst under empowerment/stance. I might have been thinking of a problem I had before, where if your stance lasts say, ten hours, but your empowerment wore off after four for example, you still remained in the stance after empowerment wore.

In that case, monks have little reason to complain. Especially if you can empower just before a tick, you don't even need to wait the full two ticks to empower.

Dey

There is a certain amount of time that has to pass before you can re-empower, but after that you can without waiting for it to drop. I didn't know that your stance would drop though, I thought you had to wait out the current stance before using a different one.

If you change empowerment, the stance too falls. My problem was not with the running around for 2 tics, my problem is people often catch me sometime within those 2 ticks. I can be prepaird for fights like anyone else, I just get caught, apparently more than everyone else, just before the empowerment is finished.

Aside from that, if you disreguard the changes to the empowerment, I still think some of the other skills are useful. A decent initiating attack, close to that of charge, some of the selectables at 50, that all still gives monks some more flare. My problem with pinning them isnt their ability, I die just as much ranking with any other class. My problem with them is getting bored easily because they have no choices, and are always the same. You fight certan classes with certan stances, and that is that. If you dont, you have a very hard battle. They are always the same and if you can get that down to an art, you can do very well. But in my oppinion, doing the same thing repedidly is just plain borring.

they dont need anything really. the thing about monks, assuming the player put the many hours of training necessary into them for weapons and anatomies, is that at pinnacle it's hard like hell to finish a smart player due to the absense of (substantial) lag in offensive stance. ironically there are ways to better lag in defensive stance yet your damage is quite lessened and a smart opponent will pretty easily get away from you if they're in that much trouble. like a lot of other classes, monks likely wont be uB3r l33t until he cabals and has a much needed charmie. but overall the class is fine.

i think that when blademasters were introduced, they seemed like such an offensive alternative to monks and other melee classes that players want other melees to get buffed to make up this difference and this is a reason i personally am not so hype about blademasters. (different topic)

in response to MysticR's post, why would you go buddha if you could just lag them to death? personally that's how I killed all the clerics/mages I fought. and tiger for clerics......monkey or crane would be such a better stance

you got the chii thrash trip combo to work regularly? that's one thing that frustrated me anywhere from 45 onwards. at 50 i got it to work 2 times...