defenses

well...it doesn't take 10 minutes or even 10 hours. I'm been specifically training this one skill for more than 2 days at least 5-7 hours a day.

What skill are you talking about? Second hand parry on a monk? Not trying to call you an idiot, but I know you're new...so

Are you training IN defensive empowerment? Second hand parry will not engage if you are not in defensive.

Also. If you try to train this at 50 you might find it hard to keep the mobs alive. What you need to do there is get some demon talismans (make sure you uncurse them at a temple healer) and wear them while you train.

even with a half elf as a melee' date=' training to perfection takes alot longer than that. Maybe you just know mroe cause of your pretty imm-ness.[/quote']

training what skills? I have a halfling and mastered two handed like 10 minutes, you just have to know where to do it. parry and shield block weren't far behind.

This is not a new idea, it has been shot down everytime it has been brought up. The consession that was made was to make defenses random in order, so that dodge doesn't alway happen first, shield second, etc, this helped a lot. Sometimes you just have to make some sacrifices for later on, like when I roll a monk, I don't practice dodge or first parry until I've mastered second parry and horse stance, then I master first parry, then dodge. Those first 19 ranks are hell, but once 20 hits, two to three hours of training and mastered defenses. So in two days I've hit 20, and in three hours I've mastered four defenses.

On what points should the game be made 'easy mode' and at what points do we have to say 'It's the skill of playing the game'? I'm not sure, but I would say this is one of the locations where it's 'The skill of playing the game.'

Training is just one of the things you learn to do efficently as you continue to play. With my last character I learned a bunch of new tricks for training, perhaps someday I'll get around to using them.

WC

I definately didn't forget to empower defenses. Its just that I did them out of order. Its all good...I now know for the next roll.

training what skills? I have a halfling and mastered two handed like 10 minutes' date=' you just have to know where to do it. parry and shield block weren't far behind.[/quote']

Two handed is a weapon class skill, so with third attack and if your fighting say three enemies.

That is 3 uses with combat, 3 possible defenses(block with your weapon) so of course 2 handed will go up quicker, Im talking about dual parry. It took me about an hour and a half to train dual parry fighting between 2-6 mobs at one time and of course it was the only defense I had. And was using a weapon you easily parry with.

What if they just made those super-hard to train skills easier to train! Like what if you had all these cool skills (second parry, offhand disarm, other coolies) work like. I takes x time to train parry, how about half the time for dual parry, second. X for disarm, half for offhand disarm. Cool stuff like that

What if they just made those super-hard to train skills easier to train! Like what if you had all these cool skills (second parry' date=' offhand disarm, other coolies) work like. I takes x time to train parry, how about half the time for dual parry, second. X for disarm, half for offhand disarm. Cool stuff like that[/quote']

Already in the game. (Obviously not half, but they are easier)

well...it doesn't take 10 minutes or even 10 hours. I'm been specifically training this one skill for more than 2 days at least 5-7 hours a day.

Honestly, I don't believe you. The mathematical chance of you having to train that long is less than 1 in 10,000. You are exaggerating for effect, or you are not engaging that defense (monk without defensive empowerment, etc.)

I most certain am in defensive...and I have been in this damned forest forever...I guess I'm lucky/unlucky or whatever you want to call it, but I have logged hours and hours trying to train this damn skill. If you are gonna call me a liar, come out and say it. That way I can refute it without sounding like I'm picking a fight.

Dual Parry. (not second parry of monk)

To train dual parry you need to negate parry.

To negate parry wield a ofensive weapon you do not know, and dual wield a dagger.

If you practiced all your weapons you did wrong.

Fast training of skills comes at a cost.

And that cost is that you are gimped untill you complete your training.

And im not talking only about defences but about disarm, and other skills.

Sure not practicing dodge and parry on a monk is a huge disavantage at low ranks but that is the price you must pay for fast training.

You know that place everyone trains their defences, they should put a graveyard in that place for the number of characters that dies there.

Sure its faster to train in there, but you pay with it by increased danger.

I do not see why anyone would go to a forest to train dual monk parry, but then again i do not know all forests. Are you sure you are not fighting a single mob at a time ? Because if you fight 10-20 it goes a lot more faster.

Also.

It should be hard to master riposte, it is a skill that can turn your battles away.

Imagine a giant warrior. He can bash lock you, but if you defend all his attacks he cannot still kill you. With riposte he is hitting your everytime he riposts for what apears to be 1/2 of your attack power. And decimates for riposte realy hurt....

KRins. He is not calling you a liar, he is stating that by his knowledge of the code what you are proposing is EXTREMELY unlikely. Unless you have the logs to back this up, I have to say that I would have to agree with him. Players do have a way of stretching the truth.

Well, I don't have logs and I wasn't running a stop watch or anything. Regardless it has takes several (when I say several I mean a LOT) times longer than first parry and dodge combined which I trained in the same place under the same conditions.

You could wear talismans to help you dodge less, I suppose. And word on the other stuff...it's freaking hard to train second parry when you've practiced dodge and first parry, much less mastered them.

I am going to call you a liar...

Or

I am going to say you don't know how to train. I didn't see one explination of how you trained for those two days, so here's my rant on training:

Each use of a skill gets placed on a meter, sorta like a tally, use prof self [skill name] to see this meter. The meter has more steps than what is apperant and as the skill goes up, their are more tallies to check off on this meter. So even just ranking you can prof self [skill name] and watch progress.

If you are training defenses properly(alright, this may vary as to what is proper, but here is how I do it) you are wearing a -str equipment, and equipment to max out your int/wis if they aren't already. Since there is talk of monks, then you are empowering defensive, even if you have trained dodge and first parry, still have to try and master Horse stance and second parry first and they only happen in defensive. Then you find a bunch of little mobs, typically people use the crows/scarecrows. I perfer other places, but the gnome's fields are perfect if you can avoid pk. Then attack them and don't kill them, and just defend away. The more things attacking you, the better.

Once you've mastered second parry, and hopefully horse stance, don't empower and master first parry the same way.

Then once you've mastered first parry, empower defensive, wear a weapon and practice dodge... the same way.

Alright, here is my defensive training equipment for anyone(some restriction apply):

Demon Talisman

glass ring x 2

cloak of dream seeking

red stone

wind boots

And some misc equipment if I can find it, but not needed.

I don't train in the fields, I train in the shire, or I train in ofcol or I train in Falen Dara. Sure, the mobs are weaker, but it's a little safer.

I won't say what the items do, or where to get them, I won't say what I train on in those areas, because I learned all of it on my own, and I really wish other people would do the same, it adds more value to the knowledge gained.

WC

I do enjoy having the same thing spouted at me from 19 different directions, but I'm pretty tired of being called a liar/stupid. I'll go through it this way...everyone have a lovely day!

Mwahahahaha.... now I know where to find your characters WC. Prepare to be constantly trash pked while you are training. :-P

I do enjoy having the same thing spouted at me from 19 different directions' date=' but I'm pretty tired of being called a liar/stupid. I'll go through it this way...everyone have a lovely day![/quote']

You came here and posted an idea, if you don't like the responses you get, then don't post your ideas. It really is that simple. Just as you are entitled to your opinions and reasons why you think this is a good idea, every other person here is entitled to theirs as why this is good or bad. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

I guess your new, or thats what everyone else is saying, so I'll tell you this... it's a very sarcastic and very jabbing community. We make fun of each other all the time, it's the way it always has been, and it's the way it's going to continue to be. So an awful lot of the words used must be taken with a grain of salt. No one is honestly calling you a liar, or calling you stupid... well.. but anyway...

And you even asked for help:

Not sure if there is any correct way to make the code skip over a couple mastered defenses' date=' but ok. I mean if there is some crazy secret I'm missing out on, let me know...cause I'm going insane over here. Developing a twitch from all the kills and the lack of improvement.[/quote']

Of which I and other have given you, and you just spit back in our faces... thanks a lot. I gave you all the information you need to know to train your defenses like I do, and it does not take more 2 days to do it, takes hours.

With my last monk, I mastered second parry in two hours, I did it with horse stance, I mastered first parry even quicker because I didn't have to empower when it faded and I didn't have to share with another defense. I mastered dodge in under and hour. I think ranked up and did drunken stance in just over 12 ticks. How do I know it's 12 ticks? Because I only had to do drunken stance twice and I was at 98% when it faded the first time. I was lucky, I had the entire fields to myself and no pks on, 12 attacks around, you're bound notice some kind of skill progression.

I've read through this thread and outside training advice(questions of empowerment etc) repitition I see is something that can be fixed by you, and all you have to do is explain how you are training. How about giving us the wheres, your aprox level, all the factors.

You can cry about something, or you can try and get some help. People here are willing to offer help, though it may be cryptic nine times out of ten, FL has a learning curve that's pretty nasty at times but it's worth it, but if you just come and complain it's not good.

And the reason why I call it complaining is because you haven't added anything to verify, backup, or help your side. You have to try.

thats is in no way my point...its not annoying to train a defense after you have 2 mastered in front of it. It is determental to your continuation of sanity. I just fought well over 75 rounds without a certain defense I am trying to train activating once...and its at 89%

You've attempted sarcasim here, but it's off the mark completely. Your exageration is just wrong. You say you've not got logs, but yet you still can say with certainty it's been 75 rounds of combat without it activiating once?

With my last monk, I mastered second parry in two hours, I did it with horse stance, I mastered first parry even quicker because I didn't have to empower when it faded and I didn't have to share with another defense. I mastered dodge in under and hour. I think ranked up and did drunken stance in just over 12 ticks. How do I know it's 12 ticks? Because I only had to do drunken stance twice and I was at 98% when it faded the first time. I was lucky, I had the entire fields to myself and no pks on, 12 attacks around, you're bound notice some kind of skill progression.

Plain and simple, if you want to be taken seriously, use specific information and not vague generalizations and exagerations, and I recomend not copping an attitude with Behrens or Malchaeius, if you must cop and attitude with an imm at all, I recommend Chayesh.

WC

edit: More information: From my last monk, at 50 hours of game play, pulled from a log I had.

dagger 100 polearm 100 sword 100

dirt kicking 100 disarm 79 dodge 100

hand to hand 100 kick 95 trip 100

fast healing 93 meditation 100 recall 100

blind fighting 100 staff 100 double kick 80

anatomy 100 first parry 100 second parry 100

martial arts b 100 martial arts a 100 kickboxing b 100

kickboxing a 96 tiger stance 100 crane stance 100

drunken stance 100 horse stance 100 balance 100

air thrash 100

Anatomy: Mob: 16 Human: 88 Elf: 78 Dwarf: 65

DemiHum: 66 Giant: 24 Beast: 65 Flying: 60 Uniqu: 3

This is around level 30. I solo leveled. If you are playing five to seven hours a day, then I did this in seven to ten days of game play. Other players put this kind of training to shame. I am sure a few are looking at this going '50 hours and he hadn't even mastered both advanceds?' and my anatomies were just abismal, a bit ashamed to be posting it actually, but yes, I pked with those anats.

People are here to help you, even if it sounds like they/I am being an ***, infact us sounding like that is sorta a means to show we are here to help. If we were truely out to be mean, we would say only that your stupid, only that you are lieing, and we wouldn't have supplied all the other information. We want you to learn, we want you to get better, and because of FLs learning curve we need to push you or pull you in the right direction.

WC

I basically have all the info I need, thanks to you and everyone else who gave me cool hints and ideas. What I am saying is, as I have been trying to state since the beginning, that I don't agree that we should have to cripple our chars by not practicing defenses when we get them or get stuck waiting for a longer period of time trying to train them after the fact. I originally mentioned I thought it would be interesting to see what the IMMs thought about making defenses toggled like autosac. Someone else (I forgot who, but great idea though.) stated there are several RP implications for such an idea. Hopefully I can get some IMM feedback as well, because I'm not sure if things like this are completely off base or have been said half a billion time.

I stated 75 rounds because it takes approx. 3-5 rounds to kill a treant with my char in a standard defense empowerment in buddha stance. I counted 23 kills (I have a tally-marked sheet sitting right next to my keyboard still) without a single second parry activation. I could not have possibly missed it as I was fighting groups of between 2-4 with the maximum being 8 which I only fought once.

In regards to not posting my ideas, fine I won't do it. But a wise man told me once that even the blind hog finds truffles sometimes (he was french so I'm not sure if it was worth listening to). 99.9% of my ideas might be stupid or pointless, but eventually I'll hit one that would be of great advantage to the entire pbase and the game as a whole. If you don't want to hear I'll keep it and share it with people who would like to see this already great game continue to transcend beyond the hum-drum of all the other MUDs, MUXs, and other M**s out there.

If you have ideas, regardless of how lame they may seem, you can PM me and I'll give you someone to bounce them off of.

just from my experiences I have not really had to cripple them to train them, monks can be an exception but with warriors and that you can wear weapons that suck for parry or that your not profient in and it will cut down on parry and various other things like that. like WC said its a learn by experience thing. The more you play if you pay attention and from what I see you do, you'll learn more until your like me you feel like a loser who knows entirely too much about a game, and even I'm still learning. you'll learn what you have to do and what really doesn't work.

I basically have all the info I need, thanks to you and everyone else who gave me cool hints and ideas. What I am saying is, as I have been trying to state since the beginning, that I don't agree that we should have to cripple our chars by not practicing defenses when we get them or get stuck waiting for a longer period of time trying to train them after the fact. I originally mentioned I thought it would be interesting to see what the IMMs thought about making defenses toggled like autosac. Someone else (I forgot who, but great idea though.) stated there are several RP implications for such an idea. Hopefully I can get some IMM feedback as well, because I'm not sure if things like this are completely off base or have been said half a billion time.

I stated 75 rounds because it takes approx. 3-5 rounds to kill a treant with my char in a standard defense empowerment in buddha stance. I counted 23 kills (I have a tally-marked sheet sitting right next to my keyboard still) without a single second parry activation. I could not have possibly missed it as I was fighting groups of between 2-4 with the maximum being 8 which I only fought once.

In regards to not posting my ideas, fine I won't do it. But a wise man told me once that even the blind hog finds truffles sometimes (he was french so I'm not sure if it was worth listening to). 99.9% of my ideas might be stupid or pointless, but eventually I'll hit one that would be of great advantage to the entire pbase and the game as a whole. If you don't want to hear I'll keep it and share it with people who would like to see this already great game continue to transcend beyond the hum-drum of all the other MUDs, MUXs, and other M**s out there.

If you have ideas, regardless of how lame they may seem, you can PM me and I'll give you someone to bounce them off of.

It's not being stated to keep your ideas and suggestions to yourself. You have them? Great! Please, share and let us know where you're coming from in way of thinking. But it's when people say they don't agree with said idea and recieve harsh and blatantly hostile responses from the poster is when things go downhill and people become defensive. As for the idea of toggling defenses, sorry but it won't happen. Part of FL's challenge is to develop the appropriate skills to max and master the defenses, offenses, and spells of the said class you've selected. That's part of the challenge, part of getting to that point of knowing your class inside and out. To change this would steal some of that pride knowing, " Hey! I know my class inside and out, how to do train, PK, and survive effectively. " In the end this will only lead to less gratification because it was handed to you without much effort.

Defenses are randomized. So it would take longer to master the defense, but it is not impossible. If you want to master your defenses quicker, then you will have to take the risk of being caught without your defenses in the lower ranks. It is give and take.

Although the RP implications of being able to toggle defenses is nice in theory, in all honesty, people would merely use it as a tool to train. Thus, I see no need for defense toggling merely for serving one purpose.