With all the talk about the underpowerement of mages I was thinking. There were many complaints about melees having such a huge advantage in cabal warfare, being able to take and retrieve standards so much more quickly then mages can. Wouldn't it be balanced out if mages could actually keep a standard easier even though they have a hard time taking it? Mages used to be able to sanc and buff the altar I wonder why this was taken away? Are there any other ideas to make cabal warfare more fair for both sides?
Mages and cabal warfare
I think this vastly depends on what type of melee or mage you have there. An invoker is problably faster than a warrior yet slower than a serk or ranger. A serk takes a higher risk.
A necro and a ranger are probably fastest, the necro with the potential to beat everyone at it.
@AnumeI see. So this would make Invokers and Necros very strong in cabal warfare if the change was reverted though neither can actually heal the altar I think? (2 classes) But in originally making this change wouldn't it have weakened Bmgs, Druids, Clerics, Shamans, Bards, Paladins, Healers, Psi's, and Lich's in cabal warfare? (9 classes).
Why would some classes be able to do it and others not in the first place? The argument that the other class is able to do more damage is not valid.
I'm sorry I'm not sure I understood. Perhaps you can elaborate a bit please?
Mages have an advantage over melees in retrieving standards as the guard isn't aggro when they've got your standard: Transient Decapitation. They can help buff their defender, too. Guards can get sanctuary and heals and anything else you can cast on another non-groupie.
Just thought I'd throw that out there, though this doesn't say much about mages taking standards, I know.
The only class that needs help in regards to standards is the shaman.
Healers were instructed NOT to take standards.
I feel they should not be in the conversation at all.
No class retrieves a standard easier than a healer as you can gate with the standard.
Melee generally has to run back with the standard. LA used to sap my melee's legs just to make sure I had to stop along the way.
Not sure that I feel anything is wrong with the current state.
While I agree with @f0xx that shaman have a struggle taking, they can certainly defend well.
#knowyourrole
On 1/26/2019 at 5:57 AM, Anume said:
An invoker is problably faster than a warrior yet slower than a serk or ranger. A serk takes a higher risk.
Theres one variable I'd like to add to this also, an invoker can lose potentially up to 25% of his hp trying to get at standard where as melee won't lose quite as much.
13 hours ago, Wade said:
...an invoker can lose potentially up to 25% of his hp trying to get at standard...
Not if you are smart about it.
2 hours ago, f0xx said:
Not if you are smart about it.
Can you elaborate. Just curious. Invoker vs titan. The invoker gets bitch slapped quite a bit.
I don't know. I just thought it was worth discussing. If you rank the top classes vs taking a standard we'd have the usual suspects in the melees. Filling the requirement of doing the most damage while maintaining there hp.
Then if you rank the top classes vs retrieving there standards you'll mostly have the same melee classes on top plus a few new odd exceptions (i.e.Shamans, portaling/gating clerics and healer tactics which can still be countered). In my eyes this is because those classes I mentioned earlier are barred from using there natural arsenal against the altar where the melees are always able to use there entire arsenal.
In my eyes, classes are different and that is the idea. Most of you people are not balancing, but complaining what other classes can do, trying to make every class the same, then open another topic and discuss that classes are the same and gives suggestions on how to differ classes, which are like that, because of the same prople made them like that with suggestions. But, that makes no sense! Make up your mind first!
I totally agree with f0xx that shaman takes standards slower, but I feel completelly fine with all others classes. Some has to rage if wants faster, others like invokers has the pure power to destroy it risking life or resting every hour. This IS the game and having more options is positive, not negative.
23 hours ago, Kyzarius said:
Can you elaborate. Just curious. Invoker vs titan. The invoker gets bitch slapped quite a bit.
Sure.
You catch ticks.
You probably expected some super secret tactic. Sorry to dissapoint.
Melees do that too btw.
Yeah but you have to catch tics. My BLMs, Warriors, Zerks. Barely get scratched when claiming, and don't have to self lag much at all to do any damage. You actually soak damage then just flee when they come in, or when you catch them on scan since you usually only have to type dirt every hour when fighting the guardian.
I think the point, is if you graded classes by ease of capture. You would most likely find the majority of melees on top, and casters on bottom. Would be interesting nonetheless.
You know very well, that even def. oriented characters in some cabals with guards can do great against cabal guardians and be perfectly safe, no matter of class. Almost no risk on taken with pants down and still doing it quite fine. Another example : "You" are synd shammy on which someone with bounty tries to break cabal. You go back, abduct somewhere far like in ofcol and even if the things goes bad, you can run away, while your opponent needs 10+ hours to be prepared and still might be cursed, before doing another attempt. Let's check mages - necro absolutely no problem, bmg too, cleric too invokers too. May be missing something, but sorry I am not sure what are you trying to point on? Made all characters untouchable to cabal guards? Improve specific characters againt cabal guards? Really? This is that some of them just do better like most classes in different situations having different strategy behind it. For me speaking more of topic is useless time spent here.
19 hours ago, Kyzarius said:
I think the point, is if you graded classes by ease of capture. You would most likely find the majority of melees on top, and casters on bottom.
What do you mean by "ease of capture"?
27 minutes ago, f0xx said:
What do you mean by "ease of capture"?
we would have to define that.
probably a mix of...risk, based on self lag required. Having to cast spells vs being able to throw a dirt then spam scan the exit. Resources, mana, and I imagine the fact that melee have to use a source for sanctuary would be considered costly. HP loss. Time to capture.
Let the data points decide. To bad I don't have time to test it. Maybe a Halloween madness experiment.
AFAIK the only Cabal guard that is even remotely annoying for casters is the Knight one because I believe it has a magic resistance. At least based on my last Nexus limited testing, I always hit harder with mundane vs magical weapons. Yeah casters get beat up a bit by cabal guards. Casters also get beat up by the mobs they fight for gear. So....?