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Blasphemy.

I've been noticing that the effectiveness of this spell is incredible. The usefullness of the spell is almost beyond all the others. It can instantly render any communer almost completely useless. Not only that but the incredible success rate of it alone is amazing. It has the ability to land through -100+ mal saves on the first or second attempt. Once a communer is disconnected from their god(dess) its not exactly hard to defeat them in a fight.

To clarify that I am not complaining; I do not have a communer. I was not blasphemied, or was I affected by it in some way recently. I've just noticed it lands easily on everyone regardless of saves. I'm sure this has been brought up before and I would really appreciate any responses to this so that we can discuss whether or not a change should be made. Thank you.

Im pretty sure its a mental save..not Mal

I'm pretty sure its a mal save...not mental.

It has the ability to land through -100+ mal saves on the first or second attempt.

And I am pretty sure that is not true.

Yeah? I'm pretty sure it is because its happened to me on numerous occasions. I've had it landed on me by a clerics evil aura through -100. It has happened and it still does.

Though I'll give you the benefit of doubt and call it an exaggeration. How about -60-80?

Hrm...

It does not land through that ammount of saves. Even if you are a shaman. Heck, I had troubles landing anything on a score of -80 mals. Anyway, silence is in my opinion a whole lot worse than blasphemy.

They basically do the same thing except one is communers and the other is casters. Lets look at both of them then.

First post:

"To clarify that I am not complaining; I do not have a communer. I was not blasphemied, or was I affected by it in some way recently."

Second post:

"Yeah? I'm pretty sure it is because its happened to me on numerous occasions. I've had it landed on me by a clerics evil aura through -100. It has happened and it still does."

HMMMMMMM. Someone's lost a bit of credibility.

Im pretty sure its a mental save..not Mal

MALEDICTIVE

Spells which use negative energy to cause harm to one's target are known

as maledictive spells. Some equipment can be used to bolster one's natural

defenses against such spells, causing the spell to fail. Also, those whose

bodies have higher constitution will find their life force to resist more

strongly the negative energy of these spells. Notable maledictive spells

include blasphemy, blindness and plague.

How do you figure? I've had one before, yes. Do I have one now? No. As a matter of fact I have been playing strictly warriors for quite some time. So my credibility is still intact. Lets not derail the thread and somehow force a comment about myself when its about the spells.

Yeah, my mistake, I figured it would be mental, because its not doing anything physical to you.

Oh, alright then. Let's dissect your post.

"I've been noticing that the effectiveness of this spell is incredible. The usefullness of the spell is almost beyond all the others."

Okay. First sentence is an empty statement, for rhetorical effect. Second sentence, complete opinion, once again for rhetorical effect.

"It can instantly render any communer almost completely useless."

Yes. Just as silence can render most casters useless. Or, frankly, a lack of good equipment renders melees useless.

"Not only that but the incredible success rate of it alone is amazing. It has the ability to land through -100+ mal saves on the first or second attempt."

Yes. All spells have a chance to land on the first attempt, even if you have -213532235234 saves.

"Once a communer is disconnected from their god(dess) its not exactly hard to defeat them in a fight."

Yes. The nice thing about communers, however, is that they are not exactly easy to kill, even when blasphemied, due to protective shielding. Unless they are terrible runners. Qclasses aside, there are only TWO ways blasphemy can land. Both, shamans and clerics, are communers themselves. Would you care at all to discuss the balance purposes behind blasphemy, the PK mechanics of it, and how blasphemy lands/affects each different race/class differently?

"To clarify that I am not complaining; I do not have a communer. I was not blasphemied, or was I affected by it in some way recently."

Okay. So you stopped getting blasphemied on communers, but now that you've started playing non-communers, you've noticed it landing lots. Sure.

"I've just noticed it lands easily on everyone regardless of saves."

Okay. Could you give us some figures? Say, if a person is at X amount of saves, on average, how many casts does it take to land blasphemy?

It seems to me, that your entire post is heavy on rhetoric, and light on actual facts or balance discussions. It can be summarized up, I think, like this: "Blasphemy lands too easily on everyone. It completely screws over communers. It needs to be toned down. And I haven't been playing a communer who's been getting blasphemied recently: that makes my argument have more credibility."

I'm sorry, but where are the facts? The trials? A look at the class vs class balance, and more. It's an out and out complaint, backed by very sketchy data; a classical set of signals for someone who's recently been given a lot of problems by a certain race/class.

More and more, lately, I've been seeing complaints about everything related to evil clerics. Some of it, I agree with. Some of it, I don't. But when I'm hearing everything from complaints about minister lag, to path damage, to now blasphemy on path/path maledictions, I seriously am sensing that a lot of these posts lack any real credibility behind them at all.

Why not do this? Go get a certain amount of saves, preferably as an evil character. Ask a shaman to fight you, spamming nothing but blasphemy, or an evil cleric you trust (and yes, these are both findable) to fight you, spamming path. Run tests. Get us facts and figures, instead of anecdotes which are, by their very nature, out of the ordinary.

It isn't your credibility which makes your post lack a bit of credibility. It is your posts itself that lacks credibility; your following post simply highlighted it a bit.

As it stands, any post which simply says, in a nutshell, "So and so is overpowered, it lands with so and so ease", holds very little credibility. Give us facts and figures. Give us numbers. Give us class v class balance discussions.

Don't give us rhetoric about rare exceptions.

I'd like to point out that on my healer, Depholas, I got quite a bit over -100 in the mal saves department, and still had blasphemy landed on me once or thrice. But blasphemy doesn't end your life. You can still run away, escape, or otherwise defeat your opponent. Been there, done that.

I want to point out there are ways of curing blasphemy while blasphemed yourself, they are just hard to find/get.

Alright Raargant. I'll give you that, my post is heavy on rhetoric and it doesn't contain hardly any figures at all. I don't log everything, I don't keep every little thing for these kinds of discussions, I should but I don't. But when a spell that completely obliterates the communing/casting properties of a class that depends on them can land on that high amount of saves, it is too strong. When a shaman can come in, land blasphemey on the first or second try through tons of mal saves, it is overpowered. I am not saying anything against evil clerics. But I think, not sure here, that a cleric's path of deceit's mals are random, when the mal in question here, blasphemy, can land on a target with high enough saves to where they should be protected from the spell for more than one cast, it is overpowered. Those two spells alone can spell defeat for the classes that DEPEND on communing/casting.

Its insane that it lands that easily. A spell of that magnitude should be extremely hard to land, unless aided by cabal benefits. The FACT is, that it lands easily and we all know it. I don't have numbers,I don't have logs, but what I DO have is experience. I was talking to Despiser a while back about his paladin. He told me that 75%+ of his fights he fought with blasphemey on him. 75% and MORE! Despiser is not some inexperienced player here, he knows where and how to get saves. And I am guessing that he had a high number of the required saves, but yet it landed. How easily it landed during his fights I am unsure, but when a communing class has to fight 75% and more without his staple spells, then its overpowered and NEEDS to be looked at. If the staff is going to tone ranger's archery, then why not look at everything else that is in question. This topic has been brought up and dismissed several times. All I want is a discussion about the spell. I don't know everything about it and I don't claim to.

Balinor is a witness that it has landed on his healer through -100+ mal saves on 1-3 tries. Its landed on me that easily, its landed on Despiser that easily, and I'm sure its landed on many many more.

I have played three pinned shamans and found it pretty hard to blasphemey someone it was mastered and everything. I find it really hard to land it on clerics.

I dont see how blasphemy is worse than say a warrior getting disarmed and having his weapon sacced.

Oh well, if the staff thinks its fine the way it is - then I won't pick at it.

Damnit. You dropped the o-bomb, BKW.

Heh, It doesn't really bother me, I just wanted to look at the spell. If its not important then I apologize for wasting time and space.