Recently i've been asking a number of people why they play certain aligns / combos. RP and PK choice is the most common reason - which is fine - people should play things they want to RP, and they should be able to play the game they want to.
However the 2nd most common reason people responded with is that they would never play goods - because of request.
Main issues people had:
1.) The time - its just completely counter-intuitive to log onto a game, to have fun, and they be stuck unable to doing anything for long periods of time. Obviously it also makes you completely vulnerable, as with long request times you will probably also lose some key spells, be low health and have given your opponent loads of time to get to you and prepare themselves.
Suggestion: Cap request length at 4 ticks - but keep the health / mana loss the same. This basically just speeds things up, which is a good QOL life improvement. It doesn't really decrease the risk all the much, as if someone finds you 4 tics is still going to be fine for them to get to you and ruin your day.
Possible counter arguments: Evils / Neutrals will sometimes have to take way longer than 4 tics to kill the same mobs and get the item. Yes. but you aren't made completely vulnerable for that period of time, if someone comes along you can just nope out. I think that is balanced.
2.) Inability to reset mobs for rare loads. This was a big one. If you are using a requested weapon and it gets disarmed / destroyed etc then you are screwed until shift. Likewise with ammo or consumables (rare staves / scrolls etc). If you use your item, but it didn't load on the mob due to restrictions, then you are screwed until a shift.
Suggestion: In this situation Evils / Neutrals have to kill the mob twice. I'd suggest a new command, replenish. Puts you in exactly the same state as request, for the same period of time, and if you complete it the Mob is reloaded into the game, checking rare count at the same time.
Possible counter arguments: Honestly I don't see any that aren't just bias / things are fine as they are! Happy to be proven wrong if someone has a legitimate problem with the solution outside of - "Nothing needs to change."
3.) Destruction of rare item if you are interrupted. This would become a lot less of an issue if replenish was implemented anyway, however I understand the frustration.
Suggestion: Would it really be game breaking for the mob just to pick the item back up in this situation?
3.) Calm timer. This was a big one, and is the one I struggle with most. I hate it - I dislike anything that decreases someones ability to place the game for a period or time - ultimately it hurts ALL of us if someone just goes and hides up from 15 tics rather than playing and interacting with the game. That said - I can see the argument that this is part of balancing request.
Suggestion: How about drained for 3 tics - still a pain in the ass, especially considering that you have just had your health / mana drained - but gets you playing again much quicker. This would also bring the total time that request affects you to max of 7 tics (4 requesting - 3 Drained.) Which does give a major downside to request, but not a game breaking one.
With respect to PK and RP, I find my own Good RP rather boring. I find it harder to do extreme things as a good aligned character, which is something I like to use inside of a game. That being said, some of the goodie players in this game are absolutely the most talented at quality RP, and I find it refreshing... just not usually coming from me. Maybe I'll challenge myself again some day.
With respect to your idea, and even as someone who rarely plays good characters, I don't see anything here that overtly simplifies the game or is abusive to mechanics, so I like all of these ideas. I always wondered if it would be too abusive to offer a "challenge mob" ability. Leave request in, as a bonus option to goods, but still allow them to challenge a mob for his equipment. If you beat him, like how neutrals and evils would kill a mob, you can mercy and he stands up afterwards and congratulates you on a worthy battle before handing over the item that was challenged for. Maybe the downside is a mob would have to be "challenged" multiple times if he has more than one piece of equipment that the player wants. Aabahran is a rough place, I'm sure even good mobs have to be tough and could be willing to be shown your strength before handing over the goods.
I've said before that I think request is fine. TL;DR at the bottom, you lazy sods.
Let's break this down.
4 hours ago, English lad said:
1.) The time - its just completely counter-intuitive to log onto a game, to have fun, and they be stuck unable to doing anything for long periods of time. Obviously it also makes you completely vulnerable, as with long request times you will probably also lose some key spells, be low health and have given your opponent loads of time to get to you and prepare themselves.
Suggestion: Cap request length at 4 ticks - but keep the health / mana loss the same. This basically just speeds things up, which is a good QOL life improvement. It doesn't really decrease the risk all the much, as if someone finds you 4 tics is still going to be fine for them to get to you and ruin your day.
This is mostly true. You're more or less unable to do anything, if you're not in a cabal.
You can still do army warfare while requesting. Oversight? Maybe. Passes the time while waiting? Definitely. Can everyone do it? Sadly no, as only three of the five cabals goods can go into have army warfare, and not every good is in a cabal. Still, it's better than nothing. Regardless, I've been bored many times, so this is only a partial argument.
Capping the request length at four hours? How many people can take the Commander of the Blackwatch out in four ticks? He's one of the longest requests at 50 I know at 8 hours. Request duration, if I remember right, is based on the difference between your level and the mob's level and if the item in question is limited or not. Also, it doesn't matter how long into the tick you start, the ticks themselves are counted. Start your request at the end of a tick and you only need to wait out 7 of those ticks rather than 8. That being said, an eight hour request for a high level item isn't that bad.
So the at 50, the Commander is eight hours for the key or aegis or whatever, while the maul from the Cleric in Crystalmir is six. Onyx Cross is five.
4 hours ago, English lad said:
3.) Destruction of rare item if you are interrupted.
This sucks. Major annoyance with rare items waiting for a shift. Fortunately with our smaller pbase, this rarely happens unless you're dumb and don't eat/drink before you request. I've been dumb a number of times, even as a class with create food/spring. Even so, I think this is basically a non-issue.
4 hours ago, English lad said:
2.) Inability to reset mobs for rare loads. This was a big one. If you are using a requested weapon and it gets disarmed / destroyed etc then you are screwed until shift. Likewise with ammo or consumables (rare staves / scrolls etc). If you use your item, but it didn't load on the mob due to restrictions, then you are screwed until a shift.
Suggestion: In this situation Evils / Neutrals have to kill the mob twice. I'd suggest a new command, replenish. Puts you in exactly the same state as request, for the same period of time, and if you complete it the Mob is reloaded into the game, checking rare count at the same time.
This I like, actually. It'll mean sitting at the Commander, exposed and vulnerable for 16 hours, but hey, don't need to wait for shifts.
The only problem I see with this is a goodie repopulating various mobs is a non-good chasing off (or killing) the good and now they've got less work to do. Have the repop happen after replenish finishes. Have the item destroyed if the character doing the replenish leaves the room. I don't know. I feel something this nice should have a further down side. It's something to think about.
4 hours ago, English lad said:
4.) Calm timer. This was a big one, and is the one I struggle with most. I hate it - I dislike anything that decreases someones ability to place the game for a period or time - ultimately it hurts ALL of us if someone just goes and hides up from 15 tics rather than playing and interacting with the game. That said - I can see the argument that this is part of balancing request.
Suggestion: How about drained for 3 tics - still a pain in the ass, especially considering that you have just had your health / mana drained - but gets you playing again much quicker. This would also bring the total time that request affects you to max of 7 tics (4 requesting - 3 Drained.) Which does give a major downside to request, but not a game breaking one.
This here is probably the biggest gripe, yes. Also 4.), not 3.), so I fixed that for you. :D
There's a number of people (including myself) that will just hide. This however, does not mean you need to stop interacting with the game. I'd write one of my occasional journals. Do cabal business either through chat or notes. Talk to others over tells. All from my hole. I'd also use calm to my advantage and hit another medium to long request as unless the debuff ended before a request, it wasn't extended, only amplified.
Might I add that the calm timer doesn't hurt everyone equally, only the melee's really, and even then not by a massive amount unless you're looking to PK straight away. My spell slingers rarely care that they're in the negatives. The Commander will give you -16 hit/dam. With today's melees hitting 50/50 or greater easily, It's a modified 34/34 for a few hours. For example, you heading over to Ohrylok or Mhordren straight after with your timer isn't going to matter nearly as much as going after Skree or Inant. Or farming those nymph hearts.
If the initial request added 20 hours of -15, I'd go out and do another. Between the 2-3 hours of rest to get health and mana back up and say 6 hour request. Timer is now 9 hours of -25. Still have 9 left? Perhaps another request, or non-rare requests til it's finished.
Example: I'd request from the Commander to get the aegis, get a 16 hour calm, request from the Father for the cross and now that calm is 11 hours less the time it too to get my health/mana up for the second request.
The main issue I have with making it drained instead of calm is calm cannot be removed. You get a hold of the worn leather sleeves and now you can request anything with impunity and aside from hp/mana loss, you're out nothing. Eat some hearts or cast cure a few times and you're good to go in a tick. Good thing the sleeves are limited to like two as already every ranger, druid and caballed player is already out for them.
Add that tick to heal to the four down requesting as suggested above, and that's a mere 5 hours (9 to refresh if they have it) to get any item in game from any good aligned mob as a good aligned character and back on your feet with little detriment.
The TL;DR for lazy people, a summary for the rest of us:
What I'm saying is while requesting is a pain in the ass, there are other things you can do during and after to mitigate your down time and I don't see it as that critical an issue, though the replenish command would be nice to have.
Dunno which people you've asked, but request has nothing to do with the reason I don't play goods, and everything to do with the fact that I find them boring.
What I don't like about goods is you lose out on all the cool offensive armor. Unholy shroud, Satanic sleeves and the like. Wish gear like this existed for goods. A righteous shroud that casts virtuous light or something.