Dwarf & Storm Giant Paladins

1 hour ago, f0xx said:

The fact that "a lot of people" are complaining about paladins doesn't mean they are weak or lacking.

I don't think most people think paladins are actually weak or imbalanced, but rather that they are somewhat boring because they lack tactical versatility - fights start feeling pretty repetitive by the 50th time you go into the heal dance after dropping a couple of flamestrikes or wraths, which is how you fight the vast majority of your battles as you wait for your enemy to screw up (rather than cause them to more actively through lag, dispel magic, stealth, stacking mals, etc.). edit: Ironically, their defensiveness adds to this feeling of repetition, as a paladin near their peak is of comparable difficulty to actually kill as a cleric - so few battles feel like a risk or have much thrill to them.  It's a by-the-numbers dance to a tune that rarely changes without much excitement to it.

I personally also argue that they're hindered by a unique incompatibility between a signature class skill and signature skills of their only possible cabals (heroism and Knight/Trib charmies), but that's just me. ;) This isn't enough to stop them from being potent, because the class is one of the best the game offers for fighting against a more powerful foe, but it isn't quite fair in my eyes that they are the only class (AFAIK) that can't combine all their class powers with their cabal powers and use both at the same time.

Making paladins stronger is not the answer.  Making paladins more interesting and rewarding is.  I'd love to see them go through a necro- or bard-style rework. Edit: Some ideas I really liked regarding such a rework were discussed not long ago here.

Tangentially related, I'd love to see an overall races-classes combination rebalance. Why can't we have storm paladins or half-elf druids or half-drow monks? The list goes on, but a lot of race/class combinations would make sense from a RP perspective without creating overpowered PK combinations.

18 minutes ago, Lexi said:

I'd love to see an overall races-classes combination rebalance.

+1

Changing up the meta with either balance changes or new combinations is a great way to drum up interest.

For example: http://steamcharts.com/app/440#1y

TF2 just got an update and look at that graph. I for one would roll something if there was a bit of a shake up.

44 minutes ago, Pali said:

they are the only class (AFAIK) that can't combine all their class powers with their cabal powers and use both at the same time.

That's not true, because Crusaders.

Also, if you wanna talk about a boring class to play, try a.... crusader.

Or a Psion.

Or a warrior...

Or an invoker.

Or basically any class if you have no imagination.

With a paladin you can be so many things. They are a hybrid after all.

If you wanna play every battle the same way, don't blame the class for it.

1 minute ago, f0xx said:

That's not true, because Crusaders.

Fair enough, though I could quibble over whether qclasses and normal classes should be held to the same standards here.  I prefer to suggest that perhaps whatever Crusader abilities conflict with cabal powers should ALSO be reworked to allow compatibility.  A problem existing in two places instead of one doesn't stop it from being a problem.

13 minutes ago, f0xx said:

Or basically any class if you have no imagination.

I don't appreciate the condescension.  I have done very well with multiple paladins in the past, and will gladly pit my experience, skill, and imagination regarding how to play them against that of anyone else here.  I'm not talking out of my ass when I say that they are tactically limited compared to most other classes, and that this limitation manifests in a particularly passive PK strategy that makes playing one less interesting than most other classes.