Reconsider Watcher's Fundamental Role and Power

I would like to create a point for discussion here about Watcher.

For me, there are three primary issues:

1. Watcher does not have a core defined role. Although the sub-cabals put them against "unnatural" forces and also against Tribunal, this essentially means every watcher is fighting Tribunal regardless of sub-cabal. Having played several Watchers, I would like to see them move away from the Tribunal war path and more towards a secretive monster-hunting path. Raids and fighting cities don't do much for me. I do think another cabal could fill that roll. Alternately, split the sub-cabals in the same way that Merchant and Syndicate split. No one expects a merchant to land in jail despite Syndicate's ability to raid. As it is, no Stalker is every going to make a deal with Tribunal against demons, since the Tribunal is bound to outlaw and strip the Watcher. Beyond this, the roles are just not well defined. I've seen Watchers spend their lives hunting clerics who dared raise a zombie, and others completely ignore it. There is historically little guidance here and it feels thin.

2. For both Stalkers and Warders, the skills are not power-leveraged against their enemies. In most cases, just being undead, a lich, a vamp, or an avatar gives better abilities than even the highest level Stalker, and that is not even including the baddies respective power spikes once a cabal is added. Likewise, Warder is not stacking up against the amazing Tribunal abilities. In terms of interesting skills and powerful skills, Watcher is just bad. Even compared to Knight/Warmaster/Savant, which all have very specific core abilities that define the cabal, Watcher is lacking. I know everyone hates the green dragon, but i'd gladly see it go in trade for a real core skillset. 

3. Lastly, for many years I believe Watcher IMMS have been a little absent. I do not recall any clear leadership in Watcher. So whereas every cabal has had 7 or 8 leaders that can change the pace and course of the game, I can't remember a watcher leader since Tassin's minotaur. This also goes back to #1, where the RP split makes them a bit uninteresting in terms of world RP.

I would encourage others to join in here with ideas and suggestions for Watcher, with the hopes that we can make a case for something more fun.

Tassin's minotaur (Lamah) didn't go up to Leader. "Merely" an Elder :P

Watcher is a very "meh" cabal for me personally. Their RP is boring, they are supposed to fight the strongest guys (Tribs and Qthings) yet their abilities are extremely lacking and/or situational. You are GUARANTEED to become an outlaw but, unlike Syndicate, have limited tools to deal with it (this has improved somewhat recently, but I still find it lacking). The raid system itself needs an overhaul even though it was updated not long ago...

Generally, the whole cabal has been in dire need of an overhaul and even though it did somewhat get one not that long ago, it's still pretty bad.

I believe that I am not alone in desiring to see "Protectors of Balance" represented in Aabahran.

I once thought this should be the duty of the Watchers, or at least the duty of one of its sub cabals.

Over time, I have begun to wonder though.

If one side of Watcher seeks to maintain the balance between the living world (law and chaos), and the other seeks to maintain the balance of living creatures (good and evil), we may be able to redefine the Roles of the individual sub factions more clearly.

But what will be those roles, what would those players who love this cabal, like to see?

That's what I would be interested in hearing.

21 minutes ago, f0xx said:

Tassin's minotaur (Lamah) didn't go up to Leader. "Merely" an Elder :P

Watcher is a very "meh" cabal for me personally. Their RP is boring, they are supposed to fight the strongest guys (Tribs and Qthings) yet their abilities are extremely lacking and/or situational. You are GUARANTEED to become an outlaw but, unlike Syndicate, have limited tools to deal with it (this has improved somewhat recently, but I still find it lacking). The raid system itself needs an overhaul even though it was updated not long ago...

Generally, the whole cabal has been in dire need of an overhaul and even though it did somewhat get one not that long ago, it's still pretty bad.

Thanks, Foxx. It appears we see eye to eye on this, and your post is an good executive summary presented in a way that helps communicate need.

Re: Lamah, I guess the last Watcher Leader of memory for me was the charging guy ... S something.

13 minutes ago, Fool_Hardy said:

I believe that I am not alone in desiring to see "Protectors of Balance" represented in Aabahran.

I once thought this should be the duty of the Watchers, or at least the duty of one of its sub cabals.

Over time, I have begun to wonder though.

If one side of Watcher seeks to maintain the balance between the living world (law and chaos), and the other seeks to maintain the balance of living creatures (good and evil), we may be able to redefine the Roles of the individual sub factions more clearly.

But what will be those roles, what would those players who love this cabal, like to see?

That's what I would be interested in hearing.

I think the protectors of neutrality is one direction the cabal could go. OK, let's say we scrap watchers entirely and re-imagine.

35 minutes ago, Mali said:

Re: Lamah, I guess the last Watcher Leader of memory for me was the charging guy ... S something.

Slinore also wasn't a leader, and was played by Zhurong aka Ghrundor.

I have played a lot of watchers and personally have found that if you build your toon right, you can be quite the powerhouse against anyone. However, I wouldn't complain if they got a buff, though, I can assure you very quickly that would be exploited. Regarding their RP status, you have free range to take your RP wherever you want, it doesn't necessarily need to be one dimensional. Sure, there is a very strong base point regarding the ideal Stalker and Warder characteristics, but that doesn't mean your limited to them. if your willing to put in the work, you can significantly impact the game with some minor or major plots. There was a point when the immortals were lacking, but I've noticed within the past 4-5 months they've been pretty active.

The raiding system is something that could get a revamp, I think there are ways to make them more engaging and interactive. I think if each raid provided a different outcome it would introduce a more strategic approach.

Raid #1: Designed for destruction  

Raid #2: Designed for commerce (Watchers block trade routes, nothing can be purchased during that time, they also get rewarded with small stashes if supplies)

Raid #3: Designed for Protection (Watchers call upon their own guards, they can secure a specific area and have allies. Their guards would attack tribunals and anyone they are at war with just like watchers are attacked in the cities by guards)

I'm sure there can be more ideas thrown into the mix but I'm sure you get the idea. Now regarding Leaders in Watchers, I'm sure if the right person comes along and put's in the work, they will get rewarded. I don't think Leadership should be handed out so easily, but there should eventually be Leader that's not an immortal. If you have great PK, great RP and put in the time and effort to embody all those watcher qualities and prove you can be consistent and a Leader, then ya, someone should get the nod. 

I really feel any limitations we think there are, are only the limitations we have created ourselves. If you can think it, write it and believe in your character, there are no limits to what can be done. Anyone can single handily change the dynamics of a cabal or the game if you put in the work. Sure you will have to write A LOT of journals, notes and hammer those RP logs, but eventually, it will all be worth it.

I still think that warder/barbarian and stalker/gladiator are better fits for each other than the current warder/stalker barbarian/gladiator.

Stalker/gladiator fight against the unnatural ...

Warder/barbarian fight for freedom ...

I've talked about this before under cabal reorganization. I'd rather see three larger, more politically-oriented cabals with a total of six subcabals (7 if you include 'royal/herald', rather than our current 12 subcabals). Then turn around and make the subcabals the focus of the battles. That means both subcabals won't join each other in defending/fighting and would have different cabal items/base locations. In effect, you'd have six subcabals that are functioning like the current 'cabals', which is similar to what we have now.

You'd still end up with the same number of hard-coded vendettas (three), or more/less, if you wanted.

Being part of a larger cabal means you have allies who are not necessarily friends (kind of like goods now have safety/allies, but those other goods aren't expected to join/protect each other in pk). You might not get along with your other subcabal (might even have align differences), but you are working for the same general cause, so you won't directly attack each other.

Importantly, this means you have people who are not friends that you must solve issues with through RP rather than PK. It would allow for RP inside of a cabal that simply doesn't exist now - both because you'd have twice the numbers in a cabal (much more likely somebody else to interact with) and because you have a competing internal tension/bond (same end goal, hate your methods) dynamic.

The other really nice thing is that it puts the "RP cabal" (herald/royal) in charge of something actionable, rather than being tracked into being passive friendly historians/writers.

If we have 24 players, we probably shouldn't have 8 teams.

19 minutes ago, Celerity said:

If we have 24 players, we probably shouldn't have 8 teams.

The only issue I see with this is that everything you take away makes the game less dynamic for those 24 players. In a game market that is constantly releasing new games and content for old games, that's just one more reason to move on.

I wish I had more to add to the topic. I've never played a Watcher and have barely fought them.

3 minutes ago, Zavero said:

The only issue I see with this is that everything you take away makes the game less dynamic for those 24 players. In a game market that is constantly releasing new games and content for old games, that's just one more reason to move on.

Let's say you have 4 teams.

You then reorganize those 4 teams into two teams with two parts each.

Breadth or depth? You still have 4 'dynamics', just reorganized.

No more or less diverse, but the interaction and concept is quite different.

That is similar to what I propose.

This is an interesting topic Mali.

I am thinking that we have seen some powerful watchers. The issue is not with competitiveness, but with the vagueness/freedom within this one cabal.

I like some of Celerity's points about the numbers. But I will not derail from your point to talk about it here.

Since there appears to be a greater range of freedom in the behavior of watchers, a unique aspect some might say.

What if we tested a unique version of cabal growth within it?

At each promotion a member is offered a hard choice, one that defines the characters RP, the skill/skills earned would reflect that decision.

Instead of choosing to join this group or that within the faction, the character simply makes their stand based on what they believe is right.

The titles Stalker, Warder, Beholder, or Lookout, may be applied based on the difficult choices made.

Every watcher seeks to protect the world of Aabahran, they do not all agree on how best to do it.

Some seek to root out the otherworldly beasts and destroy them.

Some seek to keep the disruption to natural life by society to a minimum, by force if necessary.

Some seek only to observe the world over time to try and determine the best path for accomplishing the above ideals.

Some seek to infiltrate the forces that pose a threat to the balance in the world, always on the look out for the newest threat.

Just some ideas.