I rolled up a ninja just to play around recently and HOLY DAM my murder rounds are bananas. I can literally just push someone and keep murdering them. I have another toon where my murder rounds can eat up almost 400-550 of someone's HP, I have even been on the receiving end myself a few times. We should seriously consider a cool down for these murder rounds or get rid of them all together. It's a bit ridiculous.
Locked Cool Down on Murder Rounds
23 minutes ago, sarcon said:
We should seriously consider a cool down for these murder rounds or get rid of them all together.
The first and foremost question when talking about a murder round should be: What are murder rounds?
Like exactly and specifically. What exactly are murder rounds and how specifically, do they come about?
Everybody thinks they know what it is, but I'm not sure that's entirely true. Or rather, they have an assumption of what they are and are basing arguments on partial knowlege.
From what I've seen, murder rounds are brought forth as the specific command, murder, just initiates battle and doesn't need a specific skill or spell lookup and so they're thrown into the battle pulse. Little more than rounds initiated close enough toward the end of one round that while it's printing, the next round starts and they get mushed together. They're sought after by melee oriented characters because the timing anomaly messes with pacing and that puts melees at an advantage as casters rarely open with murder.
I'm in serious doubt that it's a coded thing. The fact that they fire irregularly adds weight to that.
So that being said, if there's a way we can fix that timing issue, great. But putting a timer on the command I don't think is the way to go.
I agree with Magick. Do not impose a timer on the murder command.
Are murder rounds just a casualty of the powercreep? Higher hit/dam equals stronger murder rounds? Same flip of the coin, shouldn't -ac powercreep stop that?
What you are experiencing if I understand what Foxx told me is exemplary timing. Good for you. But it is timing related so it can be avoided. -1 to change murder.
8 minutes ago, Trick said:
Are murder rounds just a casualty of the powercreep? Higher hit/dam equals stronger murder rounds? Same flip of the coin, shouldn't -ac powercreep stop that?
The -ac just softens the blow, doesn't actually affect the double round attack. With Osyn I was getting murder rounded all the time when I fought Goruk (sp?) and Kelmii. Yes, you are right too, I don't think I meant for the entire murder command to have a cooldown, more so the double attacks it is able to reproduce. I just watched a log from Kelmi and Cassius and that is exactly what I'm talking about, how much HP was dropped in that opening round? I think he said what? 60%? Unless you are an invoker, I don't think anyone should be able to take 60% hp in a murder round with a sanced opponent, that's just nuts. Murder rounds alone are nasty, throw in some haste or a feral with their mini haste, then your basically going to get smashed that first murder round.
19 minutes ago, Trick said:
Are murder rounds just a casualty of the powercreep? Higher hit/dam equals stronger murder rounds? Same flip of the coin, shouldn't -ac powercreep stop that?
This would make far to much sense. I have been on the recieve end of Murder rounds from Kotrag I can tell you without a doubt no one does it better. He will double round you everytime. Its so gross. But spectacular to see. I dont know how he does it. Yet he does it consistently.
Edited
2 minutes ago, sarcon said:
The -ac just softens the blow, doesn't actually affect the double round attack. With Osyn I was getting murder rounded all the time when I fought Goruk (sp?) and Kelmii. Yes, you are right too, I don't think I meant for the entire murder command to have a cooldown, more so the double attacks it is able to reproduce. I just watched a log from Kelmi and Cassius and that is exactly what I'm talking about, how much HP was dropped in that opening round? I think he said what? 60%? Unless you are an invoker, I don't think anyone should be able to take 60% hp in a murder round with a sanced opponent, that's just nuts. Murder rounds alone are nasty, throw in some haste or a feral with their mini haste, then your basically going to get smashed that first murder round.
Well, its clear from the log that he DID have haste. Now, is that an acceptable excuse for that output? Iunno.
2 minutes ago, Trick said:
Well, its clear from the log that he DID have haste. Now, is that an acceptable excuse for that output? Iunno.
Are Gladiators able to get haste?
I am going to just say this. Once you Murder someone once. God damn it they are prepared for you comming. There should be a timer like cleave charge and whatever else.
get rid of wimpy/murder rounds.
2 minutes ago, Izzy said:
Are Gladiators able to get haste?
Not typically, but I have heard of a bypass that if they use the Wheel in the Willow Palm that it will grant them haste. I've never confirmed it for myself though.
Just to play Devil's Advocate:
If you know they are coming then why are you letting them get off murder rounds..?
Secondly, wimpy doesn't take action to inflict. You set it and the game does it for you. With murder I have to chase you down and then attack you. Both things can be stopped by either you running or you engaging me first.
Edited
1 minute ago, Trick said:
Not typically, but I have heard of a bypass that if they use the Wheel in the Willow Palm that it will grant them haste. I've never confirmed it for myself though.
Thats right if he goes to the Wheel inside the palm it blesses hastes and all kinds of other stuff. Interesting.
I edited my post if you want to respond.
6 minutes ago, Trick said:
Just to play Devil's Advocate:
If you know they are coming then why are you letting them get off murder rounds..?
Secondly, wimpy doesn't take action to inflict. You set it and the game does it for you. With murder I have to chase you down and then attack you. Both things can be stopped by either you running or you engaging me first.
I will be the first to say I have tried to chase people with my One Melle I tried to play and murder them. It isn't easy. So I agree with you. Though there are situations where You cant really stop taking multiple murder rounds.
Defending your Alter. Capturing an Item. Retrieving an Item. These are situation where I feel like its kinda exploited.
Like I said. I think it would make sense to have a 1 hour cooldown. Right now the only counter is to get off first. Mage vs melle put some dirt in the eyes and murder all day. Thats where it gets difficult a mage doesn't have a low blind that is nearly guaranteed to land.
Edited
11 minutes ago, Izzy said:
Are Gladiators able to get haste?
That's a great point, isn't that a spell??
7 minutes ago, Izzy said:
Thats right if he goes to the Wheel inside the palm it blesses hastes and all kinds of other stuff. Interesting.
haha, this is crazy conspiracy talk
wheel grants..
protection
flight
shield
pass door
regen
sanctuary (very rare)
detect evil
detect invis
not Haste lol. Gladiators can get buffs from usable items though. Just not potions/pills/herbs/staves/wands/scrolls/casting.
Edited
Not the wheel from the quest.
The wheel you can use just above the quest.
The haste is coming from something he wears, it isn't the wheel. I think it's Warmaster EQ? Ebbargar something or other. It still very odd a Gladiator can get haste regardless. Just because a piece of armor can cast a spell, doesn't mean it should still bypass the entire gladiator ideals. Any spell forged EQ or magical EQ that i usuable should burn them to the touch.
Edited
5 minutes ago, Izzy said:
I will be the first to say I have tried to chase people with my One Melle I tried to play and murder them. It isn't easy. So I agree with you. Though there are situations where You cant really stop taking multiple murder rounds.
Defending your Alter. Capturing an Item. Retrieving an Item. These are situation where I feel like its kinda exploited.
Like I said. I think it would make sense to have a 1 hour cooldown. Right now the only counter is to get off first. Mage vs melle put some dirt in the eyes and murder all day. Thats where it gets difficult a mage doesn't have a low blind that is nearly guaranteed to land.
I disagree that its being exploited for cabal warfare. Any class can exploit that as a way to get off attacks on their enemy. I've been eaten alive by an invoker because they got off free spells while I am focused on the altar, for instance. Same with shamans or clerics. It gives them free casts just like it gives melees a free murder.
So, let's say murder gets a 1 hour cool down. I'm a warrior and you're an invoker. I get my murder round off. Then I dirt kick and I stand there. I can't bash, trip, disarm, shield disarm, offhand disarm, or flee and try for another murder round. I am left standing there not entering a single command, depending on lore, because my only viable strategy is to force a scenario where I can dance around for murder rounds while you lag yourself with spells, but since there is a cool down now I can't. And what if I manage to catch you slacking and you don't have all that nice stuff up like sanctuary. I murder for that nice damage, you wimpy flee and now I have to re-engage with charge, but then you wimpy flee away from that charge because its not enough to kill you.. But I can't rely on charge to do my damage as it'll do what.. lacerate tops?
Now, of course this is just an example scenario.
2 minutes ago, Trick said:
I disagree that its being exploited for cabal warfare. Any class can exploit that as a way to get off attacks on their enemy. I've been eaten alive by an invoker because they got off free spells while I am focused on the altar, for instance. Same with shamans or clerics. It gives them free casts just like it gives melees a free murder.
So, let's say murder gets a 1 hour cool down. I'm a warrior and you're an invoker. I get my murder round off. Then I dirt kick and I stand there. I can't bash, trip, disarm, shield disarm, offhand disarm, or flee and try for another murder round. I am left standing there not entering a single command, depending on lore, because my only viable strategy is to force a scenario where I can dance around for murder rounds while you lag yourself with spells, but since there is a cool down now I can't. And what if I manage to catch you slacking and you don't have all that nice stuff up like sanctuary. I murder for that nice damage, you wimpy flee and now I have to re-engage with charge, but then you wimpy flee away from that charge because its not enough to kill you.. But I can't rely on charge to do my damage as it'll do what.. lacerate tops?
Now, of course this is just an example scenario.
See thats How you explain something. Great job Trick. I don't play Melles so i don't know really all the art behind playing one. Makes sense now. Now I am rethinking my stance.