More input on how weak the archer is and how almost every class can COMPLETELY negate their signature skills:
1 ) A warrior shield master is able to almost completely destroy and archer, since the rate your arrows actually bypass the shield and don't get fired back at you is about 15%
2 ) A blademaster in Kyosanken, completely destroys an archer, as he returns EVERY single arrow back at you. You would say "just remove the arrows and fight him as a warrior with beasts", but you forget the fact it is a dual wield stance, opening him up to predict dirt kicking and leaving the ranger with a measly kick - getting twin countered from murder and a mammoth and a leopard can hardly kill him alone.
3 ) Any class able to use scrolls cuts your output by 50%. This is just ridicilous and don't go telling me scrolls are expensive and last for a few hours...You get half a million from a single kill on the gorgorak and gold is TOO easy to come by.
4 ) Every berserker path also ALMOST completely blocks your arrows.
5 ) Every class that has the fired weapons (other rangers, warriors, ninjas, bards), shoot back at you at the same rate you are firing, for higher damage and from distance it should be impossible for them to shoot.
Need I go on? There's a lot more. Feel free to discuss it with me. I HAVE tested all options. I think its time all who say archers are versatile and strong shut up and try putting all their funny theories about mals and the ability to shoot from a distance to the test by themselves. I'm sure you would all be whining soon enough.
Shall I bite? OK let's. At least I know I've played an archer ranger or two who have been fairly successful by some peoples standards.
On a side note kamikaze I find your attitude aggressive and quite rude.
First point: drumroll you say you've played a lot of Archer rangers but you've never a. Tested all the types of weapons and porjectiles b. Mastered bowyer. Thus comparing it to top level items and then drawing conclusions?
Blademasters: if they are retuning arrows don't shoot. If they are weaving shoot from a far. Plague, poison, vorpal, flamebreath, shocking lag? How will he even engage with you?
If you aren't beating a blade master due to deathweaver then a. Your weapon selection sucks b. You're not utilising all your skills c. Your strategy needs work aka sleeping your own beasts and calling lighbibg, shooting fromafar or out damaging them. My rangers have played against some of the best blademasters ever. I didn't find them that worrying.
Casters: there are very few casters who can out damage a ranger even if they aren't shooting? That scroll was created to make casters viable, not to gimp rangers.
I'm sorry who said this would be easy or a win button?
Hardened mobs: do I really need to go into detail? You're a ranger AND an archer. If you can't solo 99% of the lands you've got some learning to do.
Returning fire: I don't know if you played when archer rangers first came into being. Being shot from 9 rooms away and not being able to defend yourself AT ALL was ridiculous. You'd die before you could even move the 9 rooms to engage them.
Trust me. I was there.
From your reputation I can just imagine the rage you'd feel being shot to death without even being able to do anything back. You'd go nuclear. Lol facepalm
Bards: comparing rangers to bards is ridiculous. Or do the new bards get high offensive spells (insect swarm + tstorm) couple with 2 lvl 50 pets at least and 4 defenses with the ability to heal in huge chunks, hide and camp? I'm rolling a bard then..
What you're suggesting is give archer rangers a new spell called: malform bow
@Trick feel free to add some thoughts, I believe youved played some crap Archer rangers no one remembers too.
I don't see how you find my posts as aggresive, or rude, but nevermind. Who ever said anything about blademasters in deathweaver? I have tested all the projectiles and I have mastered bowyer. From my point of you, you are the one being aggressive and rude to me. Not that I care, cause half of you people hate my guts. Do only casters get scrolls? Nope. I was around when archers came to be...the time when you even got shoot from a far and you were engaged in combat and had to flee, otherwise you weren't able to move. Why do I even bother bringing up obvious points, when all you people want to do is attack me...I will freaking keep my mouth shut from now on. Everyone just do as you please...You didn't even read the points I brought up right. Please do explain how was any of my posts rude, or aggressive...I really want to know. Do you mean the part where I tell people to shut up and test for themselves? If so...let me rephrase - Try one out and THEN jump to conclusions that you can wear anyone down with mals, or shoot him to death from a far. Better? Sheesh.
Properly player ranger destroys blademaster. An archer has even more options (to destroy him).
Archers need nothing. Rangers as a whole need nothing (even less now, after the avalon rework). The paths are quite well balanced in their current state.
For the record, I didn't read all the whiney posts above. Just a few. Since @kamikazi is arguing this so heavily I'll focus a bit of my post towards his points, not him specifically, just his points. This thread won't be "nice" either. Because I'm irritated.
Archers are NOT underpowered. They have so many tools available to them that make an already extremely powerful class even stronger. An archer is capable of winning an entire fight without ever being in combat. It should NOT be that way. So, things were added to limit that type of fight since its not really fair.
(AIMED AT EVERYONE) You guys are fucking ridiculous. Plain and simple. You want whatever class you are playing to be super strong or whatever class you are playing against to be nerfed.
Now, onto @kamikazi points;
4 hours ago, kamikazi said:
More input on how weak the archer is and how almost every class can COMPLETELY negate their signature skills:
1 ) A warrior shield master is able to almost completely destroy and archer, since the rate your arrows actually bypass the shield and don't get fired back at you is about 15%
Destroy an archer? No. They stop arrows. Their output is going to be MUCH lower than your's and they just bumped up their -ac. Use thunderstorm. They won't out damage you and if they do manage to, they sure as hell won't out-heal you.
4 hours ago, kamikazi said:
2 ) A blademaster in Kyosanken, completely destroys an archer, as he returns EVERY single arrow back at you. You would say "just remove the arrows and fight him as a warrior with beasts", but you forget the fact it is a dual wield stance, opening him up to predict dirt kicking and leaving the ranger with a measly kick - getting twin countered from murder and a mammoth and a leopard can hardly kill him alone.
Take off your arrows. Don't dirt kick like a fucking moron. Use thunderstorm or open with insectswarm EVERY time. Read that log of Bahroo vs Draethyl. You can open with instectswarm EVERY SINGLE TIME regardless of the cool down.
4 hours ago, kamikazi said:
3 ) Any class able to use scrolls cuts your output by 50%. This is just ridicilous and don't go telling me scrolls are expensive and last for a few hours...You get half a million from a single kill on the gorgorak and gold is TOO easy to come by.
Gold is easy to come by. Sure. The scrolls do last a few hours and it can cut your arrow chances in half, but as Zpenobup(Stone Archer Barb E) I've killed Savants using a certain Savant skill to keep that scroll up. I've also killed people with JUST arrows REGARDLESS of that scroll. It can be overcome. Stay on your opponent and use your other tools.
4 hours ago, kamikazi said:
4 ) Every berserker path also ALMOST completely blocks your arrows.
Berserkers are AWFUL. The class is utterly pathetic and deserves some MAJOR attention. Not a single player in this game can make a strong case for a berserker. Why? Because they suck. All their skills are easily countered and their high numbers are easily obtained by classes that maintain their -ac and defenses, but thats for another thread. So what if they counter your arrows? Know what they can't do? Sleep. Use that with insectswarm and you've fucked their regen.
4 hours ago, kamikazi said:
5 ) Every class that has the fired weapons (other rangers, warriors, ninjas, bards), shoot back at you at the same rate you are firing, for higher damage and from distance it should be impossible for them to shoot.
Okay? How about you use some inkling of a strategy and use your various tools to solve this little problem? Try to get off the dirt kick/flee/shoot. Maybe shoot them with flaming arrows hoping for the flame blind? Toss an ember into your weapon and go that route for flame blind. Go Syndicate and use the blind skill they get.
My own bitching session:
And you lower tiered PKers wonder why you suck. You don't apply ANY kind of strategy into ANY kind of encounter. You just say its underpowered and needs fixed. Guess what happens when that skill you call weak is buffed up? Players like me, F0xx, Chesta, Kyzarius, Jibber, Anume etc. just pillage all of you and then we get the fun thread about how its too OP. Try implementing a game plan and think. Use some off the wall strategy that will fuck up your opponent. Maybe it'll only work ONE time. But all you need it to do is work that ONE time. Why? Because then you can loot them and make future encounters EASIER. Use your brain to think of new strategies instead of thinking of new ways to bitch about whatever shit you don't agree with. That's how a loser behaves. Not a winner.
Just because a class has a path(archery) doesn't mean its your only route to success. How many warriors use JUST their lore? If they do I promise they didn't make it very far.
Please do explain how was any of my posts rude, or aggressive...I really want to know.
Because you asked, and I sincerely want you to understand:
Your posts tend to have a sarcastic, backhanded edge to them, and you regularly are hyperbolic while making your case.
13 hours ago, kamikazi said:
Maybe I should roll an archer next, haha
10 hours ago, kamikazi said:
Cause they are strong, ahahah
12 hours ago, kamikazi said:
Maybe the thing archers are lacking is paralysis arrows. Everyone can easily gain it nowadays...why wouldn't master fletcher be able to create em, hrm?
10 hours ago, kamikazi said:
Trust me...I know. I've played hundreds of rangers
The first three are, frankly, wasted posts - they added nothing to the conversation beyond a dose of frustrated sarcasm, and yes, repeatedly throwing out sarcasm at people as you do will come across as aggressive and rude. The fourth undermines your own credibility: when you say "trust me" and then immediately lie, nobody is going to trust you. When you make post after post on the same subject without allowing time for people to respond, it comes across as you simply being frustrated and whiny rather than you making a coherent argument. When you ignore responses that provide reasons why something isn't as weak as you think (such as my or Celerity's first responses to the thread), you undermine your credibility again and make it harder for people to believe that you're arguing in good faith and considering the responses you're receiving.
If you want people to stop reacting negatively to your posts, I think a good first step would be as follows: next time you're going to post something, pause for a moment, re-read what you've written, and ask yourself "If someone else posted this, how would I read it? Would I find it convincing?" Just about every post I make has me doing a fair amount of proof-reading, going back over what I've said and trying to think of a better, more convincing way to say it before I actually post - and you may note that even when I'm disagreeing with someone, which I do regularly because I'm a very opinionated person, rarely does that person seem to take issue with me personally. This isn't because they like me and dislike you - this is because I tend to avoid sarcasm and I show respect to the people I am discussing the issue with. These two little things go a long, long way.
For the record, I didn't read all the whiney posts above. Just a few. Since @kamikazi is arguing this so heavily I'll focus a bit of my post towards his points, not him specifically, just his points. This thread won't be "nice" either. Because I'm irritated.
Archers are NOT underpowered. They have so many tools available to them that make an already extremely powerful class even stronger. An archer is capable of winning an entire fight without ever being in combat. It should NOT be that way. So, things were added to limit that type of fight since its not really fair.
(AIMED AT EVERYONE) You guys are fucking ridiculous. Plain and simple. You want whatever class you are playing to be super strong or whatever class you are playing against to be nerfed.
Destroy an archer? No. They stop arrows. Their output is going to be MUCH lower than your's and they just bumped up their -ac. Use thunderstorm. They won't out damage you and if they do manage to, they sure as hell won't out-heal you.
Okay? How about you use some inkling of a strategy and use your various tools to solve this little problem? Try to get off the dirt kick/flee/shoot. Maybe shoot them with flaming arrows hoping for the flame blind? Toss an ember into your weapon and go that route for flame blind. Go Syndicate and use the blind skill they get.
My own bitching session:
And you lower tiered PKers wonder why you suck. You don't apply ANY kind of strategy into ANY kind of encounter. You just say its underpowered and needs fixed. Guess what happens when that skill you call weak is buffed up? Players like me, F0xx, Chesta, Kyzarius, Jibber, Anume etc. just pillage all of you and then we get the fun thread about how its too OP. Try implementing a game plan and think. Use some off the wall strategy that will fuck up your opponent. Maybe it'll only work ONE time. But all you need it to do is work that ONE time. Why? Because then you can loot them and make future encounters EASIER. Use your brain to think of new strategies instead of thinking of new ways to bitch about whatever shit you don't agree with. That's how a loser behaves. Not a winner.
Just because a class has a path(archery) doesn't mean its your only route to success. How many warriors use JUST their lore? If they do I promise they didn't make it very far.
It's not that I completely think the path is underpowered it's that I think it's missing something to make it complete. It isn't that the damage is too low or anything of that nature it's that every class I'm going to pk against in the game has a way to weaken the path that I chose to specialize in. I don't want a win button I just wanted it to be more dependable. I don't want the class that I play to be super strong because as you said I realize I'm very horrible at PK and can't base much off my experience. The information I'm going off of is more about the statistics I've seen playing two archer rangers not my pk ratio.
I have no issue with shield warriors, they are using a path the specialize in to negate my path...what's wrong with that? I don't have an issue with blademasters because they're designed to be able to focus against one type of thing at a time, focusing on my arrows means he's going to be weaker against everyone else playing then who isn't an archer.
If anyone has advice for me with this class's path choice please send a PM. I'm not looking for a step by step guide but a push in the right direction would be nice from some people with experience.
If you would please address the issues I see with the path:
The scroll is too easily gotten and is able to be used by 3/4 of the playerbase. I want to use my arrows to weaken you before I close in or to use my arrows as a finisher but I'm not able to depend on them to hit and to a greater extent I'm not able to depend on the effects of the arrows.
I could try your techniques and have tried one you mentioned (going for fire blind first) here's what happens:
Some people forget the scroll in combat, but if I'm shooting form a distance they usually remember.
They then either close in on me or run away, If they keep on me eventually rapid fire drops and I have to flee to reapply. This means I loose my pets and if I don't get it up my ranged damage is now cut to 25% and the chance I'll land an effect is halved a second time. If they're a warrior I'm now at a disadvantage with less offense and defense, they'll start bashing or tripping now.
If they run away I'm now chasing trying to shoot at the same time, since they're just running they usually get away since only half my arrows are landing or they're firing back. If I do blind them since they haven't fleed they know exactly where they are and almost every one of you can run around blind just as quick as I can not blind so I gain nothing. Oh or they just shut a door and taunt me...
My strategies just aren't up to par with anyone here. Even if I come up with one I have to hope that the arrow effects land which is very rare for me. No I haven't tried the other weapons, I kept having my bow crumble so I just used my bone bow and stuck to arrows. I'll try another archer and hope for the best, the 2nd one I made was a feral and I burned myself with flame arrows...should've figured that would happen. Being able to depend more on these effects or to make the ranged weapons created was my two ideas. I'd much rather the scroll stop 50% damage, the user gets the same protection as now and I have the same chance of landing blind/poison/plague etc.
Something I regret not doing was trying different types of ranged weapons because all I ever used was a bow. Want to stop your bow from crumbling during a fight? Make a new one before you go looking. Bow crumbles during a fight you just take note of the damage difference and flee and run/hide/recover/make a new one. At 100% proficiency they last a long time, never timed it but it's a pretty good amount of time.
Want to test out a few things? Probably you can spar with monks/blademasters because they need to learn anatomy and you can challenge Warmasters.