What if any character wishing to carry a type of consumable item, needed the corresponding storage container to carry it. A player wishing to gather herbs and potions and such, would need to purchase an herb pouch, and a beaker belt, a wand satchel, staff bag, or a scroll case. These storage devices would be extremely limited in space. Causing the character to choose wisely, instead of an ogre warrior with a back pack, a knapsack, a portable hole, and a big ol pack sack full of herbs and potions, preparing himself for a dozen battles. The Ogre can now perhaps prepare for a couple of fights, before he has to go restock. Consumables are necessary for survival with many of the race/class combinations. I believe they are a necessary part of this game. I find a very real imbalance however, when I consider that a giant sized warrior can literally carry more opportunities for sanctuary in his bag, than an elf cleric could actually cast. The concept is simple, if you pick up an herb, you can not store it in a normal container, you must purchase an herb pouch. Perhaps a pill bottle for pills.
Herbs, Potions, and Scrolls. A consumable Idea.
Herbs completely changed the entire dynamic of the game. Herbs made every class that normally doesn't get a spell SO much stronger. On top of being able to preserve them? Its ridiculous.
The game is no longer about skill. Its about two things:
- Who can get more supplies.
- Who has the best equipment.
You're right that this does need to be addressed, but I don't think limiting space is necessarily the best way to do it. That being said, I don't know the best way to resolve this "issue". The way it is now, we just kinda learn to deal with it. I used to RARELY use any herb or potion, but as the PBase realized just how high they can get their numbers with these herbs, then I had to adapt and use them as well in order to compete at the higher tiers of PK.
Ahh, power gaming at its finest.
I agree, and I like this idea as well. I think herbs need toning. Just to bump this post, I think there are a lot of ways we can strategically collect herbs that don't result in one warrior having 50-100 nymph hearts and as many magenta/mandrake/etc herbs as he needs for any fight. I think herbs should be a measured expense. Perhaps make them stronger even, but nowhere near as bountiful. Treat them more in line with actual item effects than a staple PK device.
The game is no longer about skill. Its about two things:
- Who can get more supplies.
- Who has the best equipment.
I disagree. You will find a way to beat Valek even if he has unlimited access to all the consumables in the world.
Hoarding consumables takes skill. Using consumables takes skill. Yes, very little amount of skill, but still.
If a player can't run and can't determine well enough when and how to use the healing consumables, then he will die. Supplies on their own mean nothing.
Supplies, just like EQ, matter immensely when players of similar skill battle. Only then do small advantages become big opportunities.
I forgot that evils will use it too. I don't use either one, really..
My only issue with herbs is mugwort. Very powerful for how easy it is to get...especially in combo with one of the low-cost Edges.
Consumables are ridiculous in their current state. Forget the new and 'l33t' equipment. Forget the high damage rolls and high saves stuff. It's consumables in my opinion. Want to know why everyone thinks mages have it hard these days?
Purple Seaweed - 48 hour flight. Purchasable. Previously melee's had a 3-4 hour flight from potions.
Black Leaves/Bowl - 4-6 hour sanctuary. Gatherable in up to 9 at a time depending on a few factors. Previously 1-2 hour sanctuary from vials.
White Arena Staff - See above but with longer lasting sanctuary.
Mugwort - This argument has been made plenty of times. I would advocate for it to be removed from the game.
Rosemary - Protection. This used to be a spell reserved for mages and hybrids with the scroll skill(other than the protect evil potion) It was to help curb the huge output of damage from pure melees. Now anyone who can sell a titanium bracer has access to it.
There's just too much out there that was once reserved for mage type or hybrid type classes that now melee's have easy access to.
Just my opinion.
When your:
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invoker has more HP and better output than a warrior,
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cleric/battlemage has better output and defence than a warrior,
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necromancer has MUCH better output than a warrior,
I don't see what's the problem with a warrior having reliable source of sanctuary.
Its not just sanctuary, its having pure melee classes that can spell up and buff up like a full healer/cleric/mage. Other than sanc and wands/staves, i HATE that this game has become about consumables, I can locate nymph hearts and most people have 10-30 of them in their bags at any given point. It takes most of that rock paper scissors balance and throws it out the window because now you have melees spelled up like a cleric or mage. If we wanna do that where every class has everything let me roll up a cleric and give me 3rd and 4th attack with dual parry because with the amount of consumables out there and given some time thats basically what happens to melees. And I enjoy melee classes or I used to before it got to where to keep up I had to farm 800 consumables just so i could play an attrition game because if I wanna fight another melee I have to have all these consumables to compete. I don't want ALL consumables taken out but the amount of them has gotten abit out of control in my opinion.
invoker has more HP and better output than a warrior,
cleric/battlemage has better output and defence than a warrior,
My Invokers don't break 1100 HP barrier. And they have nowhere the saves my warriors have.
But they can match a warriors damage output.
Clerics don't have a better damage output than a warrior. Never in their life. And parry+shield block is not better for defense than the four defenses and all weapon knowledge a warrior has.
Battlemages definably don't have better output than warriors. Unless the warrior is naked and dual wielding practice weapons.
And their defenses although many, are of much lower quality.
I respectfully disagree.
Well i can say that one of my clerics can atleast come close to warrior output and maybe more if i knew better what i was doing.
Located nymph hearts.
A knight had three. Not sure how I feel about that.
A necromancer of 20 or so levels had 20. Not sure how I feel about that either.
its definitely a numbers issue. Its not what the consumables do, its how many people are allowed to carry (and who is allowed to carry them). I agree with Foxx, that melees should have access to sanctuary, reliable sanctuary, meaning not level five where it gets dispelled in the first round. But I can not conceive why we should continue to allow players to carry so many consumables. Maybe my Idea is not the best, but it is an offered solution that does not deny the players access to needed consumables. Its intention is to deny stock piles from being the make or break in regards to pk.
20 nymph hearts...
At the very least lets place high level consumables on high level mobs, instead of leaving them lying around where level 20 characters are likely to gather them.
Dispel magic should be a good spell. In our current system its a waste of time if you haven't blinded your opponent. He will continue to out damage you while he smokes a fatty without ever fleeing.
Alternative suggestion, allow meteor swarm, acid blast, and ice storm to destroy bags and consumables.
Perhaps ray of truth and minister could cause others to cast down their consumables as they feel guilty for their addictions?
Go ahead and hate it. Later you will realize that there is truth here. A level 1 character has access to very high level spells through consumables and none of you are crying foul about it. So I ask you to ask yourselves, why?
Nymph hears = a flower... so ok for a goody to have, that was changed quite some time ago 
Lets not forget the time and devotion it takes to farm said 100-200 Nymph hearts.
Making someone eat his nymph hearts is a victory in itself. Nothing stops you from disengaging and just running away when you see your opponent is mass eating them.
That being said, Celerity came up with a very elegant way of "soft nerfing" nymph hearts.
1st nymph heart you eat = 40 hp (1 tick timer)
2nd nymph heart you eat = 20 hp (2 tick timer)
3rd nymph heart you eat = 10 hp (3 tick timer)
And so on.
I like Celerity's idea. A lot.
I think a better and more practical way to balance them would be to make eating them fill your hunger. A lot. That way, even with a vomit you can't eat more than 6 of them. Will cut down a lot on the hoarding and reliance on them, but not effectively promote boring area dances and still have the same issue where they are farmed relentlessly by those with more free time.
Also no effect while dysentery is turning you into a blubbering mess of fecal matter and tears.
I think it was mudders original idea but I like the idea of someone being affected by toxicity like in the Witcher series.
You smoke a few bowls and you're going to start having negative effects etc...
Great idea.
Personally, I like Fool_Hardy's idea. However, I think that instead of having to have specific bags for consumables, the existing ones have modifiers which restrict the number of herbs, pills, etc. that can be stored in them.
This would also make it so that melee classes cannot simply have 40 or so multicolored pills and always be able to see invisible. This has been one thing that has sort of annoying me. What is the purpose in having invisibility in the game anymore, since everyone can see invisibility so easily anyway?
In the early days of FL, if you were running around with a class without the spell, quite frequently you did not have access to detect invis, unless you bought a potion and even then, the potion did not last for days at a time.