Qrace/qclass -- Quests that you can fail

If this is indeed the wave of the future, are the requirements to attempt the quest being lowered?

One of the draws for my return to FL was that I heard through the grapevine that it no longer requires the equivalent to a full time FL job to get a qrace/qclass. I really hope this is true.

That said, if I worked my butt off for a character to get a qrace/qclass (especially the ones that require a lvl 50) only to fail the quest and be denied the chance... That sucks.

I think the idea of a quest is pretty cool, though even with my first Vamp. I applied, got the quest (after a lot of time) and then passed the quest only to wait longer and have the Imm see I should be made a vamp. What's the point in all of that?

So, for clarity, if quests that can be failed are the future. Let's make them a heavier factor and less of a "sprinkle" and weight the applications accordingly.

-Make it easier to get to try the quest.

   or

-If requirements remain the same, make the quest fulfill the goal. Don't make people wait even more.

IMO, there should be no quests for the quest stuff.

As it is now, the people with OOC friends win. Those who go the normal route lose (most of the time). All the quests do is inspire more OOC search for the answers. And that ain't cool.

I was given a couple of chances at one quest. Failed both times. Flabbergasted that I failed the second time earlier than the first, making the exact (and by exact I mean right down to the same emotes) same decisions made me feel that I just shouldn't try anymore. While the quest classes and races always seem like something I want to do, even if I fulfill the requirements, because I do not have ANY out of character connections, I will likely always fail the quests. In the end it just becomes "why bother". Yes I know its giving up, yes I know someone will say you should try again. But with the exception of crusaders I have failed to either pass the "test" or PK someone at the appropriate level.

Please do not take this as a rant, I am perfectly happy to play the regular things in Aabahran. There are still a lot of race/class combos I have never tried, a lot of classes I have never tried (note tried meaning actually pinned). For instance, never played a cleric, in 16 years, I always go the "other route", and I know that every religion would make that different. Maybe I should make this my new goal.... (off to roll a cleric)

I've found, having failed several qclass/qrace concepts, the Imms to be rather accommodating. 

if you fail and show that you're committed to trying, the Imms, especially if they think you deserve it, will do what they can to help you succeed. 

I do agree, if there is an automated quest, you shouldn't have to wait to be approved, complete the quest, then wait to be 'approved' again. Having proved yourself worthy of the opportunity, then completing the automated quest should suffice. (the only loophole to this may be the Imm wanting to rp something special for your transition) 

I also agree that people with OOC connections will find the qrace/qclass processes far less arduous.

I'm rather surprised with the amount of people talking about OOC connections.

I have only ever failed a qrace/qclass quest once, when I was a newbie (Undead) and I have never used any OOC contacts (in over a decade) for anything other than general tactics or just being friends. In fact, the few OOC contacts I've had over the years have been incredibly classy and have never asked for anything that would affect the IG environment.

The quests are usually pretty easy, I wouldn't blame anything on OOC contacts. I think adding that as a "fact" in this thread only confuses the subject at hand.

Imms can and likely would be very accomodating if you fail, but they will also likely add a much longer wait to the whole thing.

The only thing I would seek is to have the over all time waiting for a qrace/qclass to remain low and not add anything that could potentially increase that wait.

Waiting time is something that depends on a few things now:

1. how many of the thing you want are already around? If none, your chances to get it relatively fast are a lot higher, if there are some already, your rp needs to shine a lot more.

2. how well do you get your rp across? It might be great rp, but that won't help you a thing if the Imm judging your app never sees anything of it. So post rp logs, post journals, post rp notes. The deeper the sense of your rp involvement and the depth of character you show us, the faster it will be. If we see very little, it will take a lot longer.

3. how well do you involve others in your thing? Example: Martineus already build himself a name long before he even hit level 30 and applied for vamp. Start on the rp early, do a good desc, history and then develop the rp while you train what you want to train. Then apply.

You can also ask the staff on prayer how the chances are to get xy right now, so you do not spend a lot of time investing into something that has no open slots right now.

Undead / Lich: We'll probably do a little tuning in the near future, yet we need to have an active undead / lich to see what they need, if they need anything or if some classes need something. E.g. I think undead monks are fine, but that might be Zoichan's fault, he does very well being non-undead as well.

Hm.... I think the point of this thread was about something else entirely...

Well, we won't change the fact that there are some quests for getting a qrace, I think Volg already said that elsewhere. So I answered the other question.

I think quests are fun. Quest that you can fail and lose your chance aren't.

I once did the undead Quest for a Cleric. I managed to the quest with the aid of the old code, but there were some questions.

OOC questions about the expected "behavior" of the said Qrace.

I answered those to the best of my abilities of what I though the creator wished me to answer.

There never was any feedback if the answers were correct. At the end, I failed, because I answered something wrong.

I immediately stooped playing the character. I knew if I played more I would eventually get another chance.

So what happened? What happened was that I found the quest to be incredibly hard without enough hints. If I hadn't dug the old code for some stuff, I would never had finished it. I had no idea what I should answer to the question. Even the help files weren't helpful.

I was extremely angry that it didn't even tough me what was the expected behavior after I failed. So I decided that it was a complete waste of my time, and that the quest looked a lot like a gate to block the passed of the uninitiated, like doormen at a nightclub.

I also did the PSI quest. Totally different. It was extremely well tough out and completely fit the RP of PSI's.

I managed to pass and fail the first time, so I did it a second time and got a pass. But it bugged, and I had to try to do it 4-5 more time while I was already a PSI. Let's say I lost a CON  point. I was having a complete blast even with all the unneeded dieing.

I did an Avatar once. There was no quest. One day I woke up and I was an Avatar. I didn't mind, and in fact prefer it over having to do live RP with an immortal, as I always feel inadequate in those moments. But if I could chose, I would prefer to do an Quest.

I applied for an Demon once with a DK. Some monk decided to apply at the same time. The demon god at the time told us that we were both applying and asked us to do something to impress him. I bountied the monk, PKed him and brought him his head.

I though it was so cool, the Demon gold appeared and tried to RP with me entering some sort of portal. I acted like an headless chicken because there was no portal object. He grabbed me and rammed me inside a portal with an emote.

Then when I gave him the head, he told me that wasn't what he had in mind, and that I was a good PKer and the monk wasn't such a good PKer but was a very good RPer. And then stuff happened and I could play more for a time.

I was a bit more explicit on the undead quest, because it has been changed.

Where am I taking this rant?

Well, everyone loves a good quest. People don't mind dieing in a quest. What we do mind is losing our chance to get the quest thing.

We don't even mind failing the quest, and losing our life, IF we can do it again and again till we figure it out.

People may get mad at being PKed, but losing during solo play is different psychologically.

If we are asked questions about what is expected of us, at least provide during the quest the answers to those quests.

What we mind is losing all the hard work, because we failed it.

It's easy, make the penalty for failure, death, not failure.

Our god can reincarnate us again to try it again until we please him.

Quest should be a fun part of the Qthing experience, not a judgement time. That is what the application period is for.

I mostly agree with Mya, though I hate dying in all cases.

@Mya: I thought you brining the monk's head was pretty badass. Definitely solid move. I would've given you demon.

I'd have given them a chance to apply to Syndicate

I had a character that had a cool RP story. Made it into my psi app which ended up being 2 apps long. Failed the psi quest, wrote a whole new app just to have a chance again and failed. Then I was told by the immortals that people were only allowed 2 attempts, thats is it, yet I've seen others with more tries. I'm not complaining, and in fact I continued the character as the original class it was for a long time.

We've gotten a bit more lax lately, I'm not even sure this is a good thing, as it also takes away from the feeling of accomplishment upon success.

Originally, each char had one try only.

It's just a lot of work to get a chance to take a quest that's then possible to fail. It isn't more rewarding, it's frustrating and it creates an unnecessary barrier to entry. It's basically another layer of unnecessary complication and wait-time.

What if the quests could be attempted before you were allowed to apply? Like, you stumble upon the Psi Tower and wander in. Drawn by a powerful force. You figure some crap out, blah be doo... You choose to dedicate yourself to understanding stuff. Application sent in, you're approved.

Removes some wait-time and adds a nice RP element to why someone may want to apply in the first place.

I would really like to see some examples of these aleged ooc connections in regards to getting anything, let alone a quest class. Especially in recent times. People who rp well, put time, effort, and thought into their goals and desires generally see them fullfilled if they are reasonable. Like Anume said, we have to see it to be aware.

I am unaware of any examples of anyone being denied unless it was for a specific and legitimate reason.

As for attempts, I can also not think of any recent times when someone was denied a second chance or sometimes even a third if they tried at it.

Hah. I nearly failed the old undead quest on Azantar because I couldn't find the scourge shrine. I went to the wrong one twice and the imm facilitating it told me I had one more chance to find it. But after that if I recall correctly it was just riddles. Not even hard ones. I think I did the new undead quest on Zoichan, but I can't for the life of me remember it.

Aw man. Shrines. I forgot all about those, and where they are. (>_<)

We've gotten a bit more lax lately, I'm not even sure this is a good thing, as it also takes away from the feeling of accomplishment upon success.

Originally, each char had one try only.

I got 2 attempts at the Vamp quest  when I got my vamp. Stupid mistake the first time around

For the record I am against immortal gatekeeping of qclasses and cabals.

If you fail the quest it should just reset and give you the chance to do it again.