You learn from your mistakes...

About a month ago, I was curious and rolled up a bard.  After my fourth mob death, I called it quits.  

The interesting part of the experience was the songs and the phrase of the title of this post.

I'd like to see this implemented for all spell slingers.  

Actually, I'd like to see anything that reduces training time further than it already has been in the past.  Spending 10-30 hours (depending on race/class combination) to add to the competitive atmosphere doesn't actually add to much of anything other than being a grind.  Yes, there is an understanding that some work should be put in, but it is excessive.  The obvious detraction is that players sequester themselves away to do these things.  

Other than the "spirit" of the game, I see no reasons that are both sound and cogent for not decreasing training times further.

I would agree with you Rev, if it were an RP Edge to be purchased.

It should be part of the game core.  Frame of reference dictates some of us find anxiety in having to turn down hunting groups because in solitude there must be training to be competitive at 50, a unique correlation (not causation) of the modicum of success an individual can potentially obtain being hindered by not doing this, which is passing up potential hunting party RP and forming alliances that one might not otherwise have the chance to form.

Granted, that's a bit of a slippery slope there and moves from the specific to the general, but it is meant to show a vastness of how the game could be affected if it were implemented for everyone, not as something to be earned, but as a basic right of the gamer.  As Bioshock so eloquently put it, "A man chooses..."

The next day there would be a specific counter to every single character. This dude's got x? Oh well I better roll y so whenever he's on I can kill him. Oh but wait, X now logs onto Z so he can kill Y, etc. Doubly so for blademasters and monks. It's already much easier and faster to rank and train than it ever has been before. There should be effort put into it. Characters should not be as disposable as paper plates.

Where I agree that training is an annoying grind, Vaerick makes a good point. If it took 5 hours to roll, train and pinn then characters would become disposable. 

Valek, if you need 30 hours to train you are doing something wrong 

Since I came back I have easily gotten my combos to lvl 40 fully trained in around 10 hours or less, solo. Once you hit 40 its easy to find some pinnacles to get you the rest of the way, and it goes really fast.

Not to mention with the incentive of an rp point per rank, most pinns jump at the chance to hunt with lowbies.

It used to be that everyone had this Rev, Spellcasters learned from mistakes and spells improved, no matter the spell. Straight Melees learned from only a few skills, blind fighting, charge, bash, trip, ect. Hybrids learned most of their skills from mistakes. I believe it went away as Vaerick stated because it made learning too fast so the time invested decreased, and so did vested interest of players in their characters. Rage Deletes were very common, and Con Death was more scarce than it is now. This is why I suggested the Edge. Player still has to invest in the character to acquire the edge. You would not have liked it Rev when every Ninja mastered assassinate in an hour.

I must say that there are at least 5 combo's that I'd love to try that I can't be bothered training so I won't play them.

A cleric, an invoker, another Bmage, a monk, a DK and a blademaster.

Can I be bothered spending 30 hours trying to train something? Nah.... I'll play HON instead.

From experience I can say that I have turned down mutliple pinns asking to help me.  I can see now why they have been; nice incentive.  Yet, it would be unwise to rush ahead without training and even more so for a newer player.  

As to doing my training wrong, someone do the math for spamming spells that require on average 15-20 mana from 75-100% and then multiply that time by about 10 spells as being the requisite for developing decent strategies.  This is an average, mind you, and is for spells that can be spammed outside of combat, not doing damage to anything.

You will learn from spell failure (loss of concentration) more than from spell success. I find it is far faster to mix it up than to spam the same spell over and over. For example cure blindness, cure blindness, cure blindness, cure critical, cure blindness, cure blindness, cure disease, and so on. I tend to learn the mixers as fast as the bases. But that's just my experience.

If you're talking about the old way skills went up it is much faster now. Not before. It was changed because it was random when you would get more proficiency and it took forever. It has never been faster to rank and train now. The old ways of doing stuff are never faster or easier than how it is now.

As to doing my training wrong, someone do the math for spamming spells that require on average 15-20 mana from 75-100% and then multiply that time by about 10 spells as being the requisite for developing decent strategies.  This is an average, mind you, and is for spells that can be spammed outside of combat, not doing damage to anything.

Are you using alcohol?

Are you using herbs that slow you?

When mastering spells you can usually cast 6-8 one round spells than sleep and catch a tick.

If you are slowed and the spell is less than 20 mana you can pretty much go indefinitely like that.

In  my experience the higher mana spells tend to go up faster anyway, but not always.

If you're talking about the old way skills went up it is much faster now. Not before. It was changed because it was random when you would get more proficiency and it took forever. It has never been faster to rank and train now. The old ways of doing stuff are never faster or easier than how it is now.

This is true... It has been ramped up an incredible amount. 

That being said - training a BLM or MONK also includes anatomies. Many of which you cannot 'master' just by hunting. There are a maximum of 5-7 ranking areas you would EVER need to visit to reach 50. So maybe  5 - 7 difference races out of a huge amount of others.

I think training is a joke right now.  20-30 hours is no time at all to fully train and pinn a char.

There are items that help you train faster too btw.

1- Training is no joke.

2- Training is a low faster now than in the past.

3- You don't need to master all spells to be competitive with a mage.

4- Dam it Aulian, you are missing a lot. Just ask some key players how to speed up the training.

I hardly train invokers. Just ranking masters most stuff. The rest is either high enough, doesn't takes much or doesn't matters.

Monks, weapons and airtrash are a pain. But anatomies you can train during PK.

DK's, you can perfectly play a DK with just the skills mastered, plus fireball from ranking. I will say they get a bit more powerful with all spells mastered, but it's not critical.

Valek, stop training. Stop dieing to mobs, and start gaining experience in PK by PKing.

We all died a crap lot of time to get proficient in PK, just do it. Don't forget to log and review to improve a lot faster.

I don't recommend playing a DK with just skills and fireball.  Mya, you slay me. 

Dk spells are easier to learn than most... sleeping mobs for the non damaging spells (like silence, veil, etc) and then knock out resistant mobs for things like plague and poison.

We will not further decrease training time.

We will not further decrease training time.

Yes, Father.

In the meantime, I'll make a prediction.  Right around 2017 we'll start to see a shift away from hard coded cabal vendettas and more player agency in cabal politics.  By 2019 (maybe 2020 if this game is still around), there will be an option for further reducing training times.

Yes, Father.

I crack dat whip! Pa-KAOW!