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New Mage EQ! ... Maybe. Don't give me that look!

Alright folks, given recent discussions, I thought it might be a good idea to reach out to you all and sort of see what kind of new equipment you would like to see for our casters/communers, and to a lesser extent, our hybrids. If you would be so kind, please let me know what your visions include. 

 

**THIS IS BY NO MEANS A GUARANTEE THAT ANY POTENTIAL EQUIPMENT LISTED HERE WILL APPEAR IN THE GAME. **

 

So please, don't get upset if it doesn't. kkthxbai.

 

There are a few guidelines to keep in mind here.

 

  • No + Spell level of any kind. There are no plans to add more spell level equipment, and personally I think it is a very unimaginative fix. We're better than that, aren't we?
  • Progs are fun and great and offer a lot of uniqueness to an item, but that gets ruined if every item has them. Please keep that in mind when submitting ideas! I'd love to see great equipment that does not rely on progs to make them good.
  • Please also try and suggest equipment for varying degrees of difficulty in obtaining. I would love to see some basic equipment alongside the super-powerful.
  • I really like adding bullets to my posts. Professional-looking Naruthiron is professinal-looking.

 

With all of that said, please feel free to contribute!

Gloves and floatable options are the main thing lacking in the mage category.  For gloves, evil mages have basically only runed gauntlets.  Goods have the addition of flaming gaunts.  Something in the middle of runed and flaming, available to all aligns would be nice.

 

A unique set of gloves that has some sort of proc ( either healing or damage ) would be cool...something that compares to the titanium powerfists.

 

For floaties, mages have no high-end option unless you count the one from Puppetmaster, which I do not, and the evil-only +spell-lvl one.  Something that grants big boosts to HP/MANA or -AC, potentially unique would be nice.

Edited

How about some stuff that adds damage or duration to spells? Nothing drastic maybe like a 5% bonus to fire (and each elemental) spells or a 5% increase to spell duration?

 

So grab 3 pieces of +electrical damage and your lightning bolts are doing 115 damage instead of 100. This way it doesnt increase spell level and affect saving, just modifies damage.

 

Modifying spell durations would be similar. 3 pieces of + spell duration of 5% would make a mid duration spell like sanctuary/protective shield last an extra hour while other spells like armor/detect invis might get an extra 2-3 hours.

/weapons/

A one handed weapon staff of worth !!!

 

/wands/

If anything is gonna increase spell level it 'should be' a wand zap, not permanent. Also (anti-neutral).

Add some defensive wands, shadowform, blur, ect. Mages 'should be' using wands in my opinion. Before anyone goes on a rant about

x spell belongs to x class ect ect  melee classes shouldn't have access to the spells that they have to make these necessary

 

/Boosts/

(race specific hp/mana boosts) Not every mage should have to be a fairy, drow or elf and not every fairy, drow or elf needs more hp/mana.

Think firegiant, avians, duergars, halfling, humans?.

 

/skills/

If your going to +skill anything give some +parry, if the 'two handed' skill wont ever be given to mages please create a staff that two handed blocks

like some specific daggers dual parry on their own.

 

/Mobs/

For the love of the gods dont make them unkillable by a solo mage, make them tough but give them unique vulns that only mages can take advantage of.

 

Thats just off the top of my head.

 

UC

The problem with one hand staffs, special blocking 2handed staffs, prof bonus to parry, etc is that those are buffs for more than just mages. Unlike most mage-gear, which a lot of melees won't use because of the lack of offensive stats and/or the dominance of stats that are tertiary to melees (+ mana, + hp), one handed staffs and defensive skill boosts ARE good for melees as well (or at the very least an option to have). 

 

As for race-specific stat boosts, I am not sure that can even be done without making the equipment race-only or a vuln item of the more popular races. While the later is somewhat effective in controlling what races can get what for stats... it also means that similarly powered/focused races without that vuln (for example a faerie compared to an elf/drow) can use it and circumvent the intended design limitation. Weight might seem at first glance to be a good way to mete out some love to physically stronger races, but there are many problems with that to. Weight is a factor in balance. Make something too heavy (and therefore unable to be used by low-str races) and it will either never be used due to its affect on inventory space, or it will need to be stronger than perhaps is intended. If the latter happens, imagine the backlash we'd get from the pbase (and justly so) for allowing such a strong item into the game and skewing balance. Now, if there was in fact a way to do this, I would be all for it. I love the idea of customization.

 

The mobs will of course be balanced weighed against multiple things, not least of which being the strength of the item(s) they hold. Not all will be solo-able. There has to be a strong risk-reward mechanic in item balancing. So you won't see "Derpy the Mage-Hoarder, Champion of Denied Equipment" hording mage-only equipment while simultaneously being impossible to beat as a mage or mage group. On the flip side, you won't get EQ like Adeptus stuff off of magic-vuln mobs with 2 attacks per round, 2k hp and no sanc. This thread is not about the mobs, though, rather my attempt at reaching out and getting player opinions as far as what kind of items we need. How we balance it will be the topic of many discussions and tests.

I hear ya.

 

With the staff though I dont think melee classes would use them if the hit/dam isnt there, sure you get a little more defense vs other melee classes but your also doing less damage every round, I do see where you are coming from though.

 

Derpy the mage hoarder, that was funny

 

I also didnt mean gimp the all the mobs, just dont make them all Lord Firedon from marak, lol

 

You didnt mention the wands so ill assume that was a good nail, ill try and come up with some more

 

UC

Personally, I think we should reduce availability of extra defensive buffs and not put in more. Wands -> rangers... do you really want to fight a ranger with protections AND blurr on top? We've already taken out a blurr potion or possibly a pill, I don't recall, bc it was a real balance issue. Those already at the top of the food chain ended up with these extra defenses = overall bad.

I agree on the gauntlets, though there is one more set you forgot plus a non-rare one already, I don't think there is a top notch mage item however compareable to powerfists, so perhaps something just as rare.

So mage players (I am definitely not one, though I have played some as well): What would you like to have?

There is a possibility to make items for special races only (Naru, look at Volgs boots of stomping, love them btw. Haven't seen anyone wearing them yet either). However also keep in mind we do not want to make all races equal, then we'd not need different races. A fire giant is very strong and will meet out melee damage, yet they should not get a + 400 mana item (yeah, this is exaggerated but you see where I'm coming from).

Lately, a lot of things are possible to integrate into eq, e.g. give eq a new spell the class usually would not have, albeit at a low prof (so you will fail a lot).

One handed staff: there is only one in the game and this is fully intentionally. It would be a huge balance issue if we introduced a noremove one handed staff.

I can see  giving a staff a low-chance twohanded block like the dual parry from the dagger you mentioned (if you do not have the ability, it will fire off very seldom).

 

Yes, it is difficult to see what is missing and to add some. We've already tried with helm (check blackwatch) and some other items.

Lol, rangers have the wand skill? I never noticed.

 

Blur potions and pills would be bad because the classes with 3-4 defenses could get a simultaneous fifth.

 

Since wands are so rarely used why not just limit them to just full blown mages? If it would remove a 'staple wand' from hybrids maybe just create a stave in its place?

 

Just brainstorming

 

UC

Rangers don't have wands, just staves.

Lol UC, aren't you full of ideas!

Hey, dont be hate'in, I was going off what the big kahuna said

 

UC

Removing wands from hybrids would kick at least one already-struggling hybrid class in the teeth. I don't think that is the right approach. I still agree with Anume on this: we really need to be careful about just what we put on wands, given that you can generally use them far more often than staves, and (duh) scrolls. If we load too much defense and utility into wands, then we run the risk of seriously skewing balance. We do have a shortage of non-maledictive offensive wands (not that we have many maledictive wands, rather I am not sure we would want to put them in given the nature of mal spells) that are worth anything. I can think of one, maybe two if I'm willing to stretch it. I think it would be nice to have some flavor to them. So I think it is safe to say that discussing wands has been fruitful.

While on the topic of consumables: I do not personally plan on adding more staves, herbs, or pills, and very few if any scrolls. We've got plenty, and I feel they're becoming a problem rather than a solution. 

 

So to summarize the thread of ideas so far:

 

new wands new gauntlets for all aligns, but more leaning towards evils floating objects

race-specific items

How would all of you gauge weapon options for mages? Sockets? Jewelry?

I don't have mage experience, so I'm not all that knowledgeable on what is lacking/hard to fill.

When I try to analyze how melee vs mage gear should function, I keep running into the problem that mages and melees use armor for simple mechanics.

 

I think there is a base flaw in our equipment system in that everybody uses equipment only as melees should. Ideally, a melee's equipment should be used for external mechanics..that is..the improve things like saves, damage, armor class, and so forth...just like most of our current equipment. I envision mage armor, on the other hand, to empower their spells. Mages don't wear layers of armor to protect themselves from swords...they carry artifacts and charms that channel their energy into shields to do the same thing. They don't use their staff to parry blows...they use it to blow stuff up.

 

How would a system like this be implemented? One way would be to use the current religion system (guile, purity, cycle, everything) and attune equipment at certain strengths to one of these forces. (Why religions? So communers can easily use the same system, to a degree). More powerful equipment has a greater attunement. Then you go through and attune spells to religions as well (stone skin to nature; cure light to compassion for instance..of course you can cast more than your own personal religion). Depending on your equipment choices, you'll end up with a pool of energy in each 'source'. This determines the efficiency/upkeep/power of the spell which draws on the character's mana to cast or bolster.

 

This opens up a multitude of possibilities in gearing and the entire magic system. You might have a mage that focuses a lot in protections, at heavy mana/eq cost...a counter would be a flurry of weak, fast blows to 'overload' the defense...or perhaps slow, weak, yet penetrating blows...or perhaps a weapon that has some ability to pass through that defense more easily...rather than our currently mind-numblingly boring get-more-dps-to-kill-something..and this would undoubtedly inspire a much more interesting combat system in general.

 

Another random thought.

Edited

Random thought: Is it possible to code "reverse saves" on equipment, I.e. have clothing that DECREASES the saves **of the opponent **when calculating afflictive/mental/mal outcomes? (Maybe kinda like a global deteriorate effect when calculating outcomes)

 

Reasoning:

  • Doesn't require massive change of gameplay mechanics (still revolves around the good ol saves vs. spell).

  • Kind of like a hit/dam mechanic for mages

  • Can be diversified: Mal vs Mental vs Afflic vs Spell (in top tier items).

  • Easy to balance: Can alter values on equipment as needed so that it can't be stacked too high, yet still be allowed to reach appropriate levels where it can soften people from becoming completely untouchable from spells.

Reversing saves is almost like increasing spell level. I am pretty sure they arent going that route because the way saves work vs spell level is a well balanced mechanic. So if we are talking about things outside the box of what current equipment currently offers we need things that affect the spells directly without affecting that balance.

 

Two ideas that come to mind are racist equipent and object progs.

 

Racist equipment would be equipment that cant be equiped by a certain race rather than single race only equipment. something like anti-faerie or anti-fire giant or anti-warrior.

 

A nice prog would be something that has a chance to make a spell cast for free with with reduced lag. The chance should be low for this to happen maybe 3-5% and is then on a cool down for a tick. The cooldown probably wouldnt be nessessary most times but it would prevent chaning of effect to a lucky 2-3 casts in a row. This way it doesnt completly turn the tide of a battle but when it happens its a nice advantage. For example

 

A necromancer casts acid blast (normally a one round lag).

Necroman utters the words 'acid blast'.

Dewaholics awesome gloves of smiting empower the spell! (cast for free and allows a second acid blast to be cast that round, which would then lag for another round)

"No + Spell level of any kind."

Spell level is the natural reaction to Hit/Damroll bonus Meeles get from gear. I already shown how even +3 isn't that huge of a damage increase.

This leaves the only other way to increase mage offense, equipment with Oprogs.

 

Look at Barbarians. Why are they so powerful? Because in addiction to their PASSIVE automatic meele power they can use ACTIVE spell like abilities. They have stuff they can use in combat that bypasses defenses and deals high damage.

Mages could have the inverse of this. PASSIVE damage. Remenber mages need to use ACTIVE stuff if they want to deal any damage.

Perhaps we can expand on this front.

 

The other option is improved defense which is always HP durability.

HP can be extended by HP gear, AC gear and defenses gear. But I will speak of it latter.

 

Weapons:

1 handed cursed staff. This is not that great and not a huge imbalance. There are several people with this, and all it does is open your mage to hold something. A shield, a wand/staff or a treasure.

One of my necros holds a +30 HP treasure from this. Another get -50 AC from a shield. My Battlemage holds his Tainted Ankh.

 

We could have a cursed one by default one in a very hard of place like gear or desolation. As long it's damage is low enough no meele will ever use it. You also can't dual wield it with another weapon, but can use a shield.

 

Also on staffs. We should have more cursed and no-drop staffs. The proliferation of skills that allow the disarm of cursed staffs by meeles dictates this need. All of them can blind+disarm, so their skill is still useful, but it allows a mage to conserve the staff, reducing hours of downtime during which he will not PK.

 

Daggers. There no decent daggers for mages. They should be the second go to weapon for mages after staffs.

Some people call this a mage dagger. Object 'dagger Yog-Sothoth' is type weapon, material steel. Extra flags: glow magic antigood. Weight is 3, value is 2, level is 50. Weapon type is dagger. Damage is 8d6 (average 28). Affects mana by 40. Affects hitroll by -1. Affects damroll by 1. Affects dispel magic by 5. Rare item. (4 STR) I call it a wasted opportunity. 105% dispel adds nothing over 100% dispel (another of mages problems), but the 40 mana is interesting. A shame that it being uncursed means it will not see much use.

 

We could have a low damage cursed dagger that auto-dispels. Yes, auto-dispel. If I'm giving up using a staff which parries 30% better than a dagger, I want something in return. Something decent, or else it's a non choice.

Perhaps it curses, or blameblinds. Now those are also interesting.

 

Maces.

I always wanted a 1h mace that blinded. Like the ones in Dragons of Autumn twilight.

For my clerics. (Blind spell, not flame-blind.)

 

Swords.

A cursed sword of low damage that poisons could be interesting for a BMG. Perhaps even a dagger.

 

Again if the average damage of a weapon is bellow 20, no meele will use it. And we can have wonderfull flags like -90% enhanced damage, or -75% dual wield that will ensure a weapon is not used for meele purposes.

 

Auto-casting gear.

If was placing a spell on a piece of equipment, I would take special attention to what save type that spell targets.

Having access to a spell from another school than the one your class is limited to, is a very interesting concept.

For example, If I'm a Invoker it would make sense for me to get something that is maledictive in nature. Curse, plague, visitation.

If I'm a shaman, perhaps I want some pure afflictive effects, or perhaps something mental, like a Mind-Blast.

If I'm a Cleric and the Warmasters finally learned to walk around with 50 mental saves, I might wish something that perhaps casts dysentery, or some debuff like weaken.

Also, please, please don't put more auto-healing gear. This kind of gear is completely unfair.

 

HP durability.

Now back on HP, aka defense.

We can raise HP with stuff as pure HP gear, or AC gear. They both have the same impact, but pure HP also counters spells.

There are plenty of examples of this kind of gear, so lets skip it.

 

What we need is more gear that improves proficiencies of defenses.

For example, a rare armor socket that improves parry by 2% but decreases enhanced damage by 10%.

For example a pair of gloves that improve staff by 5%, but decreases two handed by 10%.

Perhaps an alternative to the coral staff that has -50 AC instead of +50 HP.

 

On the subject of spell prof. The only reason to have it is to counter prof dropping effects like Fury and other rare-stuff (unless you are a BMG). So perhaps some high bonus, to key spells could be interesting. (Read interesting, as actual useful, people actually using it.)

We got +15% ray/path.

Perhaps some +15% fireball or Hellstream.

Some +15% dispel that isn't a dagger but armor could also be interesting.

Perhaps flashfire, elderitch blade, blades.

A rare ring of +50% word of recall could be nice.

I feel like I should expand a bit on some things.

NO SPELL LEVEL: Because we already have enough, it's already been more easily accessible in the past, and we've already rolled it back and restricted it. We do not need any more. Plus, I'm just not a fan of it. It's a cop-out in place of buffs to mage EQ that have ingenuity. Spell level has been discussed at length across many forum topics, both in the normal boards and the immortal boards. I've thought long and hard on it, and have decided against using it in any items I design.

 

**NO MORE ONE HANDED STAFFS: **There is a reason that we have only one in the game, that it is uncursed, is easily accessible, and deals very low damage. Adding more would be a problem. You can simply use the one we have and carry spares if you can't get it cursed. As Anume has said, introducing a defacto cursed 1hand staff would mess up game balance. 

 

I don't want this thread to turn into arguments about these points. There are plenty of other avenues to discuss for mage equipment, and I did ask nicely at the start to not involve these, as they would not be implemented. I have zero plans to make items of the natures I mentioned in the above portion of this post. So please, let us move past them and discuss the wealth of other options available to us.

I don't like the auto-dispel dagger. That is way too powerful. Passively ending an encounter just because you have a dagger is crazy. Plus, consider feint warriors with it. Even if it does low-end damage, being able to blow away defenses without causing self-lag is generally saved for very select combos and is arguably the bread and butter of those combos. I'm not keen on adding a weapon that does all of that same stuff. Weapon effects should never be as powerful as the most powerful ability of a class.

 

If it helps keep things in perspective with weapon effects - a chance to poison is considered a very powerful ability on a weapon, and is generally met with lowering average damage in comparison to other weapons of that type. Take any two weapons with the same dice rolls (and so of course average damage), one that is noremove and one that poisons, the one that poisons will always be harder to get. To put it more plainly, simple effects for weapons like poison and wrath damage or fire-blinding are considered very powerful abilities. Now, compare a chance to fireblind with a chance to dispel magic. Which ends a fight faster? If you answered fireblind, you are stubborn. So then a cursed dagger that auto-dispels? That's way too strong, even at something low, like 20 average damage.

 

For your sword suggestion: Keep your eyes open.

 

The blind spell is absent from consumables, save for one or two low-level versions and a rare scroll, for very good reason. I could swing for a fire-blind mace, but true blindness is a very strong mechanic. The goal is to create flavorful, balanced equipment for mages, not to give them equipment that makes melees unable to compete. As well, adding true blindness to a mace would have the same effect that adding auto dispel on a dagger would create - melees that may very well choose to forgo the extra damage of other maces in favor of a long-duration blind effect. giving massive penalties to melee skills would alleviate this in many ways, of course, but at the same time, if used only for so long as to gain its effect in battle, it could prove to do more harm than good. 

 

Auto-spell EQ:

  • I do not plan to add more auto-heal EQ.
  • Auto-spells will be at a lower level, a much lower level, than spells normally cast by those that can acquire them. For instance, a piece of equipment that periodically casts flashfire - I would propose it on the build port as casting at level 35 at the highest, assuming a relatively short interval between attempts. Maledictives and Mentals, specifically, are things I am wary about adding to gear at "normal" casting levels (40+) but i will definitely consider this entire concept and discuss it at length with the others. They know more than I do about balance, that's for sure. It may well be that I am wrong about how powerful casting at, say, level 40 with an item would be. I only fear what might come if a decked mage (especially invokers and battlemages) was effectively auto-casting the entire contents of Critcal Vaporize and/or Transient Decapitation as level 50 spells fairly regularly with no penalty to rare counts. Yikes.
  • Basic bonuses like HP/Mana/Saves/-AC are all still planned for items. Not every item can be a special snowflake.
  • Spell profs is another thing I want to discuss at length with the rest of the staff to determine what is acceptable and for what spells.
  • I reeeally like adding bullets to my posts.

Random thought: Is it possible to code "reverse saves" on equipment, I.e. have clothing that DECREASES the saves of the opponent

 

Yep, it's called +spell level gear

Hehe. My bad. Here I was hoping this was a novel idea. :/

 

But still... I think there'd be more room for control with the reverse saves idea. Lets say at its peak, you could -5 to -10 saves in a particular category at best. Not game breaking in the least. Not overpowered as a large scale up like an entire +spell level. It just equalizes a warrior who stacks up on 40+ saves in top tier gear and becomes non-threated by spells. But instead be brought down to into landable therritory. So instead of a spell landing 1 in 8 casts, rates can be improved to like 1 in 6 casts probability wise. Imms could work out the math to where its not too impacting.

 

IMO, its not that big of a deal. A simple minor globe adds 1-hit/1-dam + 8 mental saves + 5 mal saves. A major globe adds 10 mal saves and 10 afflictive saves. Imagine items in game like a glyph or leggings of reflection, etc. These type of saves are on a SINGLE item. A mage item that is adding +2 to enemy maledictive saves (and potentially at the sacrifice of AC/hp/mana that could go into that slot) seems like a decent way to create trade offs and diversity. Also, if you're a melee that goes pure hit/dam and have no saves to begin with, this wont effect you in the least. It will be battle of you zerging mage and mage trying to zerg back with their spells while staying alive from sacrificing hp/mana/ac focused eq.

 

EDIT:

  • For those worried about stuff like dispel magic. Then make the max limit on + opponent mental saves to like 5. Opponent might not even feel lost saves like that. Easy to balance specific categories that are of concern.

  • Along a similar line, it doesnt make afflictive spells MORE powerful like +spelllvl. It just gives mages the option to maybe make a build where they can use spells like fireball with less fear of it being saved against. Or they can ignore this route altogether and keep using spells that are not as affected by afflictive saves like call lightening / ice storm? Either ways, this type of gear wont buff the max cap on the damage a spell can do like spelllvl.

Edited

What you're suggesting is still pretty much spell level. It functionally does mostly the same thing.