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Mana shield and malforms

There are some faults in that comparison, some have already been pointed out, but you chose to ignore that

 

A dk will have this problem only against ONE single class, and he has plenty of ways to go around this problem. He is not totally shut down in any way.

The missile scroll still works 100% vs non archers, and solely archers have a chance to hit through it, which is not even very high. Anyone with the scroll skill can use it. (I don't think this scroll should exists at all btw )

Would you fight an invoker with your malforms with 50% or more damage reduction on your malform? I think an alternative proposal would be some mechanism for DKs to temporarily make their malforms physical at some (large) dps or prog nerf. This would be good for claiming the kill for the malform as well.

I wouldn't be opposed to such a percentage...it wouldn't nerf the invoker and if it keeps the DK happy...

Edited

Would you fight an invoker with your malforms with 50% or more damage reduction on your malform? At 50%, yes, certainly. Above is too vague, and has to be tested.

Found a major problem like this as well. I remember going into a rage mode on prayer years ago when I played Waojin lol. Using mundane weaponry simply doesn't work well. You're pretty much a human warrior vs an invoker. Knowing that silence and energy drain shuts down the battle will only force an invoker to have high saves (which is probably the only thing that requires any type of skill in this matchup) which I ALWAYS had anyway as Covarrubias (I simply swapped between svs and ac/hp equipment in my inventory). I think we all need to start looking into the whole bane idea and matchups a bit more and consider them from a high level pk standpoint. I made a poll about banes awhile ago.

That's the thing - you don't think it's necessary and so do I. But then, I didn't think that all the changes regarding the scroll of missile protection were necessary too. With this suggestion I want to see how consistent the playerbase and the staff is with their reasoning.

 

You can't change (or want to change) one thing because it shuts down a signature skill of one class, but then refuse to change another which does exactly the same, to even greater extend!

 

This is not a case of inconsistent reasoning.  I just pointed out that they AREN'T the same thing - one is an ability a single class has access to, the other was a consumable that many classes had access to.  You're comparing apples and oranges and asking why we're not eating the same number of each.

 

As has been stated, there are a number of ways for dks to fight invokers even without their malforms.  This is also not the only case in the game where one class can cause major headaches for another class - think calm and berserkers, blasphemy and healers/clerics/paladins, rogues vs paladins (a class with minimal lag ability and no area attacks).  Yes, there are ways to counter these things, to adapt to them, to change your tactics and eq to deal with the specific target... and the same is true for dks vs invokers.

We aren't talking about massive imbalance such as spell-turning here

 

Spell turning is not massive imbalance.

Turning % is not 100%. And spells turned are recast at a very lower level. Also does zero for area spells.

I agree that fighting an invoker with mana shield is very uphill if they have a lot of saves, but I would still rather fight that and have a much higher chance to kill than against a well played magic resist blademaster or magic resist cleric with my dk. Provided I'm not a reaver in Nexus ofc.

 

Another issue with invokers is that they can destroy a low/mid level malform even in your inventory as Mya pointed out. Would be nice to come up with a way to use low/mid level mundane malforms against invokers without such a high risk of losing them maybe?

 

Also, I don't get why we can't kill the shopkeeper in Miruvhor anymore?

Wait, what's this about weaponcleave/ice storm shattering burnproof weapons now?  Isn't the point of burnproof being that it can't be broken?

Burn prof weapons now become damage when 'weapon cleaved' or 'Icestormed' or 'Hellstreamed'.

They auto-de-wield and can't be used until you repair them in a shop in Falen Dara.

Also, cabal service for burnprofing weapons (only) now has a time duration, like name binding, but you can see the duration by examining the weapon.

 

In my own opinion if an Invoker has to dress in Saves, he isn't dressing in HP gear. Which is good.

Given that the DK has 2 ways to cripple the Invoker on two saving classes.

Energy drain for Malediction. And Silence for Mental.

Add that only Faeries don't really need mana gear to use fully charged staff. And then they have the worst HP.

That is a pretty good trade off.

 

My greatest concern in a fight vs invokers is the gear blowing up things. Not that I cannot use my malform.

DK's aren't a one trick pony, nor should veteran players depend on only on thing to win fights.

Grab a physical mob with high hit-roll. This is more important than damage. Obviously the Gigantic crab will not do.

Focus on Hit-roll and Dual wield 2 physical whips, or a high avg 2 handed physical axe if you have low hitroll.

And go murder him to death.

Cleave if you can, and cast silence/energy drain.

You can even kick him if you have high mental saves (cause of dispel and 2 rounds lag.)

 

In a long fight, you can even use magic missile + curse to erode saves, and then energy drain him.

 

PS: Regarding complains that firestorm blinds your pet, remember that most pets can dirt kick him. This negates one another.

Edited
  • Path of Fury Berserkers have a chance at "breaking" a burn-proofed shield or weapon. Breaking != Shattering. Icestorm still can't break/shatter a burn-proofed weapon or shield.

Haven't read most of the posts here, but as I recently had skin in the game, I will say that a well-played DK is quite a pain in the a$$ for an invoker.  You just can't expect to win the fight in 10 seconds.  Magic missile still reduces saves even though no damage.  You should be able to get a couple missiles off, flee/heal/repeat until you're comfortable going for curse/energy-drain.  Especially if you pay attention to when your charmie dirt-kicks.  And let's not forget you can potentially knock them out with cleave.

 

But there are many cases where classes main-skills are completely useless against other classes.  Think thieves vs. undead for instance.  Just gotta think outside the f0xx box

Edited