Shamans

Now I do not want to inflate the ego of someone running around right now, they just brought issues I had considered years ago back to the surface, and this is my opinion only. Please keep any discussion as exactly that. I don't enjoy flaming, arguments, and the general asshattery involved when people disagree on the forums lately. It always degenerates to a bitchfest, and nothing is accomplished. The issue I have is as a PK class, I do not believe shamans are balanced. Now hear me out before I begin getting the groaning wafting through my Chrome browser. The class relies heavily on mana, and attrition. The main issue I have is there are not many ways to deal with class crippling maledictions (Dysentary, and Insomnia) You can say "run away" but that is not a viable optiona lot of the time, as a shaman can ALSO stop that via enfeeble + draining moves. Landing either of those mals means you CANNOT stay in this fight, you will not win. Next downside? Once you DO get away, you cannot rest, because your either stuck awake, OR your hit with hunger/thirst each tick. So  if you flee the MOMENT dysentary lands, you have 7 ticks before you can even begin recovering from this PK. Let alone be able to effectively fight. Where as in that 7 ticks that shaman is back to 100%. A shaman has all the tools to literally just run you out of consumables, then beat you at their leisure.

My proposal is as follows: Take Cure crit away from healers. Making them rely on Cure serious will make them far less able to recall at awful, after landing 2-3 mals, then be back at you before you have had a chance to deal with those mals in any effective fashion.

The Next suggestion may seem a bit odd. Make shamans a bit more reliant on voodoo dolls. Perhaps they cast at a lower level if they have not deteriorated your voodoo doll. Sound unique? It would put more reliance on a defining characteric of typical voodoo practice in the form of a Hex bag, or focus (like a doll). Perhaps make it so some mals can ONLY be cast through a voodoo doll. Perhaps the more detrimental (and impossible to cure mals) like Hysteria, Dysentary, or Insomnia.

having been on the giving and receiving end of all that is "shaman" I like elements of your second suggestion. (I'll explain)

as far as your suggestion. I, personally, think the class should have to utilize voodoo, it's a great skill that really makes them unique. so, making it where these limited rare effigies, which degrade through use, are the only means by which to place certain curses... would mean that since they can no longer be readily cast in battle, they would have to have a higher chance of landing than they currently do. thus, I feel it wouldn't really change the outcome if they were targeting you, but if you targeted them during a time they couldn't make another doll.. then, they would be at more of a disadvantage. I don't think that would make them too reliant on voodoo to get the win, but it would require more preparation. 

having played a shaman, I found it really hard to land those battle turning mals like dysentary/insomnia, just as I found them hard to deal with when they were placed on me. which is how I think they've balanced the class. so, other than wanting the class to be more dependent on voodoo, I think it's fine how it is. of course, that is just my opinion.

The current shaman obviously knows what he is doing. Good prep work as well as a good gear set makes him a tough cookie. Dysentery isn't as bad as you make it out to be. Drinking milk while under its affect totally nullifies it. However I agree that a well played syndicate shaman is gross.

Drinking milk while under its affect totally nullifies it.

Wait, what?

Newb.

You shouldn't have revealed that one Forsaken... seeing Emp complains about a mal that can be nullified so easily, it's clearly a knowledge problem with that one.

I would very much love to see this particular shaman nerfed, BUT, who was the last strong shaman? Shamans are not as good as you make them out. It's just your combo + that particular player, and have in mind, he's played quite a few of them. Every time I see him back from a vocation, there's a strong syndi shaman.

There is nothing wrong with shamans ATM.

Shamans are a powerful class. That is made deadly by being played by someone with intimate knowledge of the class.

But in my view they are less powerful than many other classes, like DK's or Blademasters for example.

Their power totally depends on their opponent. IF the opponent is decked in Mal saves or in huge Hit/dam, then the shaman will hit a wall. Unlike many classes this wall will literally prevent him from doing anything.

In my view Syndicate powers have a huge synergy with them, because of the ability that Syndicate has of always knowing where you are. You most likely get a save against this, but I don't really know what type. Most likely mental.

Shamans are a very particular class to fight. It does not revolves about who deals the most damage. It's all about landing the right mal's. And lightning them up like the old Christmas tree. Most shaman fights are decided the moment he engages you. Once Virigoth said you should go with 70 mal saves vs a shaman. And that old advice still runs true today.

Going in with 30 mal saves and some hit/dam and expecting to win, is like going against a thief without poison and expecting blackjack to miss.

If you aren't ready, don't fight a shaman. You will die, how fast depending on his skill.

Once you are ready. They are mostly easy. If they can't pierce your mal saves, they can't do anything decent.

With this I would like to give the player of Repai a shoutout for being very good at what he does.

A shaman in Syndi is IMO the most deadly combo in the game...probably tied with the Syndi Psi combo you played a while back (Sulphax).  It's not the class that needs balancing but, potentially, the cabal choices they're allowed.  I'm not taking anything away from the player of Repai, but it's VERY likely that same player would not be enduring the same level of success in other cabals.

Honestly as Sulphax the success I enjoyed came off the back of the power of a Psi, it had very little to do with a certain psi "sickness" combined with the Syndicate skill that suggests a players location. Almost all of my "victims" can probably agree, my battles where decided extremely quickly, and almost never relied on chasing. It was usually me putting them down in a span of 5-6 rounds of combat, or I fled out, and reprepped. Never did I fight in a level of attrition similar to a shaman. The "sickness" was used as a gear gathering trick, or to keep very hard to deal with characters away (undead, and vampires) so I could do my thing.

So, we can all agree that there are synergies in the game.

The problem with shamans is that, against certain enemies, there is nothing the shaman can do, so it has to balance out somehow.

Give me a magic resistant BLM and I will make him cry. Give celerity a dwarf cleric and she will make him cry. Give Mindflayer a halfling cleric (Lotho) and he will make him cry, give Toten a vampire, and he will make him cry, give hit&run a DKN and he will make him cry. Hell, against certain psi combos, there is ABSOLUTELY nothing he can do, literally.

Once such a combo pops out, you will see a deletion thread, I guarantee you that.

I watched Spark's Crusader make the shaman in question cry Uncle.  The trick I saw used?  The utilization of a secondary set of equipment specifically for a shaman fight.  And, of course, milk.  

I watched Spark's Crusader make the shaman in question cry Uncle.  The trick I saw used?  The utilization of a secondary set of equipment specifically for a shaman fight.  And, of course, milk.  
Yeah, he killed the shaman.

Then the shaman grabbed a staff and a shield and killed him

Yeah, he killed the shaman.

Then the shaman grabbed a staff and a shield and killed him

You made it sound easy,  it wasn't.

No need to be modest about it

No need to be modest about it

Wasn't being,  he faught me without gyvels for about an hour and a half before I landed a blind and screwed him. lol.  and yes it took me THAT many casts to land ONE mal on him.