Chii Bolt Affected by AC Perhaps.

Would it make sense to make Chii Bolt have the same negative affects as Sermon if your poperly protected?

What I mean by that is there was a point when if you landed Sermon/Minister the affects would be the same no matter what, however they ended up dumbing this down so it's affects would be altered by your protections.

Could the same thing not be done for Chii Bolt? but instead of saves it is substituted with AC?

An evil cleric's most powerful tool is Minster and if someone has even decent saves it cancel's it out completely. You don't even need rares to stop a Clerics Minister from having it's full affect. Go grab some Mithril and a few other items and your golden.

I have had someone wearing almost mere basic items not even be affected by Minster before, so there isn't really much hope and point in landing it with someone who actually has proper armorments. I know there is a slight negaive affect to mana regain but that doesn't really substitute. There are even tactics you can use to lower someones protections but even then Minster seems feeble.

Would it make sense to affect Monks the same way with their chii bolt? This is something that can basically land always.. and when it does your toast for like 3 to 4 rounds and if they slap in a Air thrash and it lands and they get in a trip it's basically over.

The Chii with Air Thrash is almost 6 to 7 rounds not even including 1 trip.

Ok.. Going to edit this post because it doesn't seem to be clear what I am saying.

What I am trying to say is that Chii Bolts Affectiveness should be determined by your AC. Thus, if you have poor AC you will get the full affect of the Chii Bolt lag, if you have better AC protection the lag will be less and less. I tried to compare it with Minister because that was the only other thing that I could't think of that would compare. Let me know if that clarifies it.

I honestly have no idea what it is you're actually suggesting. Please try paring down your original post (or posting some clarification) to make it more clear what you want to see happen.

On another note, Chii Bolt Lvl 3 + Air Thrash is ~4-5 rounds of lag. Not 6-7. Chii Bolt Lvl 2 is a little closer, but still not hitting 7 rounds of lag with an air thrash.

Maybe six rounds if the thrash lands. MAYBE.

I kind of agree with the chii bolt though. I've had someone miss chii bolt 5 times in a row, and have it land the 6th time with no penalty (chii bolt missed 5 times fairly quickly).

I've never played a monk. But, furthermore, I have only been killed by a monk once as Xylithix but it was due to something cabal-related that affected a racial-perk and I wasn't aware of it. Point being, I could have avoided that death if I knew...so my perspective is that of: monks have a hard time landing a kill.

If there happens to be one cabal that gives monks a CHANCE at pulling off a combo to ruin someone, I'm all for it.

There are lots of classes that have abilities to not only easily get the drop on others but potentially one-shot kill others. Thieves, ninjas, DK's, necros have it far easier than monks IMO.

I always thought that monks cannot be gimped any further, but here we go.

ideally chii bolt would be an opener skill only.

~It's ridiculously OP vs a Invoker. This would give IVK the ability to counter it with firestorm.

With clerics we have 2 defences to endure the meele onslaught.

BMG's have lots of magic defences to aid.

And Necros can evade trip lock by pet bash.

But IVK have it really bad since they lose protective shield with the bolt and can now get chakera lagged. And they really need to be able to cast to deal any decent damage.

inv are not supose to be be strong vs monks.

I honestly have no problem vs. a Monk as an Invoker. In fact I usually win 3/4ths of the time. If you can flee right after their chii bolt lands you can EASILY throw up protective shield again and be fine with chakera strikes. With certain things going on, you could probably throw up that along with at least armor in a very fast manner depending on how fast the Monk is. The only Monk I could see being a HUGE problem is maybe an Undead Monk for certain reasons. Otherwise an Invoker should win unless certain things happen.

ideally chii bolt would be an opener skill only.

~It's ridiculously OP vs a Invoker. This would give IVK the ability to counter it with firestorm.

With clerics we have 2 defences to endure the meele onslaught.

BMG's have lots of magic defences to aid.

And Necros can evade trip lock by pet bash.

But IVK have it really bad since they lose protective shield with the bolt and can now get chakera lagged. And they really need to be able to cast to deal any decent damage.

Invokers have an INSANE damage output and as such have low defenses, and having played several monks with high anats on the races i've been fighting getting bolt + chak is not a guaranteed thing, Monks are fine as is, tbh i'd like to see them revamped alittle bit to make abit more interesting while in combat but thats not here nor there.

Besides if you make it opener only and that makes it completely useless vs invokers because its pretty fail to not have firestorm up when theres an opener move like that.

I honestly have no problem vs. a Monk as an Invoker. In fact I usually win 3/4ths of the time. If you can flee right after their chii bolt lands you can EASILY throw up protective shield again and be fine with chakera strikes. With certain things going on' date=' you could probably throw up that along with at least armor in a very fast manner depending on how fast the Monk is. The only Monk I could see being a HUGE problem is maybe an Undead Monk for certain reasons. Otherwise an Invoker should win unless certain things happen.[/quote']

A monk that knows his *** from his elbow will give any invoker a run for their money. Ask Pali about my human gladiator monk Aokami. I think on average he was able to get off two spells max. Mind you I had some very nice cabal skills to further help.

Yeah, WM T monk vs Savant I invoker isn't pretty for the invoker. Though if I recall correctly, we only had one real fight, which still was a pretty close one... but I could easily be mistaken. That char didn't last long, and such short-lived chars I don't usually remember the details of.

Personally, I've never liked the basic design idea of monks - I do not like classes being so lag-dependent, nor am I a fan of the luck factor when it comes to chakeras and phantom dragons.

None of them were close. I have all the logs

Even without logs, I'd take your word for it. Like I said, my memory of that character is pretty bad... can't even remember his name. Terryn, maybe?

My anti-monk tactics with invokers have improved a bit since then, but they still remain, imo, the biggest danger to invokers by far. WMs in particular.

Invokers and BLMs in WM have been balanced (gimped) since then MF.

Also, what the_nightmare said. Monks, imho, are gimped enough as they are. This suggestion is just a knee-jerk reaction from someone who got killed by a monk, while playing a class he is not good with.

I know the change of which you speak f0xxy lady. This however does not "gimp" them in my opinion.

Invoker vs monk strongly favors the monk, but as mentioned before, monks have a difficult time as it is.

Cabal skills will skew this of course.

Well I dont know, but I got it handed to me last night, just makes me want to smash my laptop.

I think the only time I got stomped as a Drow Cleric was because of a Monk. Spammed directions to Savant Cabal right after he attacks. Next thing I know I enter a couple rooms from the area and I get chii bolted and because I spammed so many movement commands I lagged myself to death. I nearly killed the Monk in the process too though. So as a Drow Cleric (I'm assuming Discord) combine that with your Savant spells/skills and you're set. Wield a Mace which a Monk can't use so you'll have more of an upper hand there. Make sure it's a nodisarm one as well if you can manage it. At Trusted you should eat them alive by practically using one or maybe even two paths if he manages to lag you after that. Unless he gets lucky with a phantasm dragon strike I think you should win.

A decently played Invoker SHOULD be able to beat a Monk depending on the Monks skill. If the Monk is who I think it is, then he will probably be very hard to fight because he was getting better with every challenge I fought him in. I won them all, but by the time the last one hit, he got me within about 250hp compared to the first two that was pretty damned good.

Heh, I'd prefer to play a human monk more then an undead monk. You get crap cabal selection with an undead monk (no WM, and if you go nexus you may as well only look at pandy as the prime ability for reavers is a write off, AFAIK), the vulnerability is a real pain and hopefully this isn't going too far, but undead fancy stuff is FAR FAR FAR FAR more useful on a class that has no lagging ability.

Play one to find out what I am talking about.

I played an undead monk somewhat recently and I ended up wishing I had stayed human. I do believe undead fancy stuff has been changed (slightly but noticably) since I played my first undead monk in the beginning of 2.0.

At the same time, with a monk, if you're lucky, you can often win fights you really probably shouldn't have been able to.

All monks are based on is timing and luck. No skill required

Except running of course. Or chasing.