That is not a good example and it has been discussed in the characters deletion thread.
If that certain char had stayed a bit more longer it would have been outcasted and removed from tribunal because he was not acting as lawful. This has been said by an immortal.
I know. I said that his behaviour was NOT lawful evil.
You'll have to excuse Foxx....
There are no logs' date=' you looted a friend of mine with Grum when he died in jail due to drug addiction.[/quote']
There's a lot more to that story then what your friend is telling you. And I have the whole log.
Please post some logs' date=' I'd love to see this. LOL[/quote']
Hehe, I have one. But I think it was a misunderstanding and you saw differently. You eventually fixed your mistake.
Oppressant is an excellent example of Lawful Evil in Tribunal. Why? He makes the laws. The most common form of Lawful Evil in literature are high ranking powers of authority who exert their perverse ideas of law into existence. Barons, Kings, Lords, Dukes.....they all have their own domains and control them by authority of the laws invested in them. However, a Lawful Evil Duke would bow to his King's laws if they were imposed. He would not ignore them.
Lawful Evil WILL operate within the bounds of the laws. Same as a Lawful Good Knight will not go insanely crazy on a Lawful Evil Nexian within city limits. It's just not done. It's out of your self-interest as Pali has stated. This is your greatest self-serving interest. Your opportunity cost is not being able to run nilly willy like all the other evils, but, you'll always have extra allies. This leads to another common Lawful Evil....the sniveling underling. Every evil king has to start somewhere, you know? A nice little trade pact with the Tribunals and BAM! Extra allies versus Knights for the Nexians.
Lawful Evil is not instant PK gratification. It's waiting and savoring their frustrations while ignoring your own. It's about knowing in the end you will have it all on a much grander scale and a much grander stage....THE WHOLE WORLD! MWAHAHAHAHAHA! (or at least a piece of the pie if you're the sniveling underling)
Yes, I remember that! I have that log too Jibs. I've made three mistakes in 340 hours as a tribunal and was punished for each one. 
Oppressant is an excellent example of Lawful Evil in Tribunal. Why? He makes the laws. The most common form of Lawful Evil in literature are high ranking powers of authority who exert their perverse ideas of law into existence. Barons, Kings, Lords, Dukes.....they all have their own domains and control them by authority of the laws invested in them. However, a Lawful Evil Duke would bow to his King's laws if they were imposed. He would not ignore them.
Lawful Evil WILL operate within the bounds of the laws. Same as a Lawful Good Knight will not go insanely crazy on a Lawful Evil Nexian within city limits. It's just not done. It's out of your self-interest as Pali has stated. This is your greatest self-serving interest. Your opportunity cost is not being able to run nilly willy like all the other evils, but, you'll always have extra allies. This leads to another common Lawful Evil....the sniveling underling. Every evil king has to start somewhere, you know? A nice little trade pact with the Tribunals and BAM! Extra allies versus Knights for the Nexians.
Lawful Evil is not instant PK gratification. It's waiting and savoring their frustrations while ignoring your own. It's about knowing in the end you will have it all on a much grander scale and a much grander stage....THE WHOLE WORLD! MWAHAHAHAHAHA! (or at least a piece of the pie if you're the sniveling underling)
Excellent post. I agree with everything you've written here.
Seems like it doesn't work this way in FL, but in many other games, Lawful Evil doesn't necessarily mean following the law, just a code of principles that aren't broken. For instance, never breaking your word, never betraying an ally (doesn't mean you can't abuse/kill/betray underlings or enemies), fighting with honor (a bit more ambiguous), that sort of thing. If the laws don't follow the LE character's code, they're ignored. I could, for instance, see a Lawful Evil clan akin to the Syndicate where the members will break the laws of the lands to attain their kills but never break the laws of their clan. If, on the other hand, the LE follows the laws of the land for various reasons, then breaking them is out of the question. Mind, you can still have others break the laws for you, as there isn't really a law against that (nor a law against working with criminals, for that matter). What it comes down to, though, is the strict code of ethics that must be followed at all costs. Again, this may not necessarily be the case in FL. I've never played a LE in FL, though I might one day (though I think the idea of a LE -having- to chase after a criminal is absurd. Report the criminal to the authorities to gain respect with them unless you think you'd gain a better position by bringing in the criminal. If the criminal works for you, don't admit to having seen him).
I thought it was against the rules to reveal others characters on forums? What the hell?
Rules?
I thought it was against the rules to reveal others characters on forums? What the hell?
It is.
But Mindflayer stated in a previous thread that he was Grum. So.. those who posted who he was already knew because he said something.
Seems like it doesn't work this way in FL' date=' but in many other games, Lawful Evil doesn't necessarily mean following the law, just a code of principles that aren't broken. For instance, never breaking your word, never betraying an ally (doesn't mean you can't abuse/kill/betray underlings or enemies), fighting with honor (a bit more ambiguous), that sort of thing. If the laws don't follow the LE character's code, they're ignored. I could, for instance, see a Lawful Evil clan akin to the Syndicate where the members will break the laws of the lands to attain their kills but never break the laws of their clan. If, on the other hand, the LE follows the laws of the land for various reasons, then breaking them is out of the question. Mind, you can still have others break the laws for you, as there isn't really a law against that (nor a law against working with criminals, for that matter). What it comes down to, though, is the strict code of ethics that must be followed at all costs. Again, this may not necessarily be the case in FL.[/quote']
Sounds like a neutral evil Gladiator to me. Ethos is indeed a bit different in FL than it is in other places... in FL, it very much is a matter of "How much do you care about following Tribunal laws?"
I've never played a LE in FL, though I might one day (though I think the idea of a LE -having- to chase after a criminal is absurd. Report the criminal to the authorities to gain respect with them unless you think you'd gain a better position by bringing in the criminal. If the criminal works for you, don't admit to having seen him).
TRIBUNALS have to chase the criminal - lawfuls do not.
Having criminals working for you wouldn't be very lawful.
Was just going to post what Pali did in reference to Peras' post.
Peras, what you are talking about is NOT lawful evil. Lawful evil has nothing to do with honor. Unless he is a warmaster.
Alrighty, I wasn't sure if he had stated who he was or not.
Lawful evil has nothing to do with honor. Unless he is a warmaster.
They still have nothing to do with each other - ethos, align, and how honorable you are are all different character traits, not necessarily related to each other. Also, one could be an honorable lawful evil Savant too - Warmaster demands honor, but none of the cabals preclude it. 
I stated as a preface to my opinions that what I think Lawful Evil and what FL states Lawful Evil is differ. It seemed people disagreed with my own opinion of the ethos, when it's just opinion. I have a lawful evil that follows FL Lawful Evil ethos. It's funny, Pali was the one disagreeing with me, but I completely agree with your most recent statement, Pali, that 'it very much is a matter of "How much do you care about following Tribunal laws?"'
I know. I said that his behaviour was NOT lawful evil.
I think it's been more or less proved in game that lawful evil does not equate to an evil who pays lip service to the laws' date=' but breaks them when they can get away with it.[/b'] I remember Balinor had a FG warrior with this type of RP and he was constantly being chastised by the Tribunal Imm because of his behavior (just an example, not a diss on that character).
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Now, I quote you for a second time. First you say that it's been proved that lawful evil characters do not follow law then you used Bali's character as example. **
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You know his character wasn't acting as a lawful one and was about to get outcasted, then why the hell do you use it as example of him proving anything?**
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shrug**
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Sometimes I can't understand you guys...**
Foxx... read what he wrote again... what you quoted again.
...lawful evil does NOT equate to an evil...
to me its like this.
Lawful Evils are like the Executioner. There are a lot of lawmen, most choose to patrol the cities or guard the jails, not the Executioner, he gets to end the life of another living creature, and enjoys it. He chooses his profession because it allows him to kill others without breaking the law. In his own mind he is the law, the absolute end for all who stand against order.
Yeah, Akomak was a very difficult character to play, and the only reason I was in Tribunal for so long was because the IMMs that were going to deal with the complaints about me (Anume) never managed to catch up with me in game.
However, that said, I wish we could find a way to have that law-bending, bribe-taking, dirty cop Tribunal, because I think it's a much more interesting RP than the standard evil Tribunal.
