AC vs HP?

[f0xx]

Here is something I was wondering about and want to hear some opinions on the matter.

When playing mages that require HP items do you prefer objects that give you more defense (invokers, necromancers, shamans, clerics etc) or such that grant HP?

For example:

elemental bracelets or titaniums

sparkling rings or those rings from the keeper of crabs (can't remember the name -30 ac)

Remember I want to hear personal opinions and in which situations you would chose HP over AC and in which AC over HP.

Thanks.

[Calron]

Always choose HP over AC. Period. Unless its is like 5 hp vs. a crapload of AC (ie, something like the ice armor)

[Aulian]

Yeah for a the most part.. If you are smart and take in your surroundings, useing a communer you can get your ac to over 350 very easily using consumables and so forth. However hp is much more useful for the affects of AC start to wear off the more you have. They reach a point and their effects just seem to drop off is what im saying.

[Mudder]

Find a balance between the two. My advice? Go for AC items first.

Stop at around -400 AC and go for HP.

AC reduces the amount of damage you take and helps you evade.

HP is fleeting and only helps until it is gone. AC is forever.

What I mean is this.

An item that gives you -100 AC. You will take less damage and get his less the entire time you have that armor.

Then an armor that gives 200 HP. Thats nice. But once you take 200 damage, that item becomes useless to you.

[Jester]

Depends on the type of caster im using.

If im playing a battlemage or cleric i usually go for ac, because imo it suits their style.

However if im playing an invoker i would probably go for hp.

reasons:

I've tried both style on both types of casters and this is the way i look at it.

Invoker types are supposed to win fights fast! The more hp you have the more spells you can cast against that warrior that is pounding your face off. Because you don't have ways to get this hp back, its best to have as much as you can, and shoot fast and hard.

Communer/Battlemages - These types are made for longer fights, being able to cure themselves over long fights, they should have higher a/c because they idealy want to last as long as they can before haveing to flee, Haveing higher hp wouldn't necessicarily help here because you have the ability to replace the lost hp points, so rather go for saves/ac type of gear.

hope that makes sense.

[Aulian]

Depends on the type of caster im using.

If im playing a battlemage or cleric i usually go for ac, because imo it suits their style.

I'd have to say I disagree with that, with all your spells you dont need the AC boost besides a few select peices that will do the trick, the rest should be HP and then saves.

[kahlos]

With clerics and shamans, go HP and just heal it back up. That's how you fight anyways.

With the mages, go AC. I always get HP armor with my invoker and get owned so I think this is the correct answer. Of course you can mix it a bit and as Aulian mentioned, you can easily buff up your AC with other things anyways, including enchant armor.

[L-A]

I'd have to say I disagree with that' date=' with all your spells you dont need the AC boost besides a few select peices that will do the trick, the rest should be HP and then saves.[/quote']

High ac on a bmage makes it a lot easier: after having -600ac on a drow bmage and going back to -300 you notice the difference in your fights... Bmage needs hp as well - as they have the lowest of all casters. However, ac for them is important. It is a bit of a balancing act.

Communers - I'd take hp anyday. Same with necro and invokers.

Cheers,

L-A

[Raargant]

For classes that can cure themselves, AC over HP.

For classes that cannot (with the exception of battlemage), HP.

[The Lemming]

Also depends greatly on race. I would be more inclined to take ac with a giant and hp with an elf, for communers at least.

[Raargant]

Nope. AC for healing classes.

[Tantangel]

I love you all with call lightning.

[Calron]

Even focusing wholely on HP gear on a cleric, and this is not even being decked, I get -350 ac. AC basically comes with good armor, so just find good armor and the AC will follow naturally.

[Aulian]

A bmag should get easily -450 ac without going looking for super ac eq... Thats not hard, add in a few herbs/pills/flowers and you can get it well over that. I did not say ignore AC completely, merely suggested taht when you have found one or two pieces then look for HP with a BMAG

[Deykari]

For classes that can cure themselves, AC over HP.

For classes that cannot (with the exception of battlemage), HP.

I agree wholeheartedly with this, in theory.

I'll give you an example (that is 100% not true to game mechanics at all by the way, it's just to give you an idea of what I mean).

Cleric 1 has 500hp.

Cleric 2 has 1000hp.

Cleric 1 has more AC than Cleric 2, enough so that Cleric 2 over time takes twice as much damage as Cleric 1 (remember folks, this isn't a real scenario).

So when Cleric 1 and Cleric 2 (who assuming all things equal, will die at the same time if they're fighting the same opponent with things going exactly the same in both fights) are both at 10% of their max HP, which one needs less time and mana to be at their full health and effectiveness? Cleric 1, with the less HP but more AC.

Now again, it doesn't work like that at ALL in-game, and you can't disregard the benefits of HP gear with one of the low-HP cleric races at all. But fantastic AC, in theory, really is a good thing for healing classes. I say in theory because I've never tried and tested this myself so I can't throw in my own experiences, so remember: THE ABOVE EXAMPLE IS NOT TRUE TO FL LIFE, IT MERELY SERVES AS AN EXAMPLE!

Like Calron says though, it also depends on what you're sacrificing for what. Sacrificing that +40hp breastplate for one that gives you an extra -5 AC isn't really worth it.

Dey

[Kyzarius]

A bmag should get easily -450 ac without going looking for super ac eq... Thats not hard' date=' add in a few herbs/pills/flowers and you can get it well over that. I did not say ignore AC completely, merely suggested taht when you have found one or two pieces then look for HP with a BMAG[/quote']

With nothing spectacular I can get a bmage to all -400's -40aff,-26 mal,-20 men...and thats adding + 330 hp.

not bad imho...

I always find I do better with a healthy mix rather than focusing on one area or the other...though truthfully saves are paramount.

edit -mind you this is caster, lorfaine didnt need as many saves, and this totally forsakes hit/dam.

[Jester]

I agree wholeheartedly with this, in theory.

I'll give you an example (that is 100% not true to game mechanics at all by the way, it's just to give you an idea of what I mean).

Cleric 1 has 500hp.

Cleric 2 has 1000hp.

Cleric 1 has more AC than Cleric 2, enough so that Cleric 2 over time takes twice as much damage as Cleric 1 (remember folks, this isn't a real scenario).

So when Cleric 1 and Cleric 2 (who assuming all things equal, will die at the same time if they're fighting the same opponent with things going exactly the same in both fights) are both at 10% of their max HP, which one needs less time and mana to be at their full health and effectiveness? Cleric 1, with the less HP but more AC.

Now again, it doesn't work like that at ALL in-game, and you can't disregard the benefits of HP gear with one of the low-HP cleric races at all. But fantastic AC, in theory, really is a good thing for healing classes. I say in theory because I've never tried and tested this myself so I can't throw in my own experiences, so remember: THE ABOVE EXAMPLE IS NOT TRUE TO FL LIFE, IT MERELY SERVES AS AN EXAMPLE!

Like Calron says though, it also depends on what you're sacrificing for what. Sacrificing that +40hp breastplate for one that gives you an extra -5 AC isn't really worth it.

Dey

Its very true to FL life.

If i have 1000 hp from gear and low ac, I'm gonna take alot of damage, and fast, even if i have the hp to make up for it... I will most likely have to flee because im a communer... uh oh, its time to heal and im at big nasty, my mind isn't clear because i have alot of wounds, darn.... looks like i have to fail alot more now because i have this snazzy hp gear.

A character with higher ac and lower hp will be able to heal themselves better because their mind wont be as cluttered as long from the "wounds".

It makes perfect sense to me. Plus high hp isn't gonna affect if you get bashed, or tripped.

[Ex-D&Der]

I think the point is you want to maximize your overall staying power. So if you take less damage per round, you use up your mana through healing more slowly. The only time this wouldn't be the better choice is if you could gain more in hp through equipment than you would lose over the course of a battle through the weaker AC. I take it Raar has thought this through and it generally won't be the case.

[Calron]

As far as I'm concerned, being bashed and tripped should not even be a factor as a mage. If you are being lagged aside from charge and one or two other rare things, your problem isn't what gear you are wearing.

Also, I don't quite understand your argument Jester. Are you trying to argue this from a reality standpoint? How "wounded" your mage is won't have any effect on casting/communing. And having HP gear doesn't hinder your casting ability either.

I agree mostly with Raargant's appraisal. However, if you have a drow (read: low hp) healer or such it is probably wise to have at least a few select pieces that give HP, and devote the rest to ac. Having your HP so low that you have to flee and heal against a melee after only one or two spell attempts likely won't get you anywhere.

[Jester]

As far as I'm concerned, being bashed and tripped should not even be a factor as a mage. If you are being lagged aside from charge and one or two other rare things, your problem isn't what gear you are wearing.

Also, I don't quite understand your argument Jester. Are you trying to argue this from a reality standpoint? How "wounded" your mage is won't have any effect on casting/communing. And having HP gear doesn't hinder your casting ability either.

I agree mostly with Raargant's appraisal. However, if you have a drow (read: low hp) healer or such it is probably wise to have at least a few select pieces that give HP, and devote the rest to ac. Having your HP so low that you have to flee and heal against a melee after only one or two spell attempts likely won't get you anywhere.

from my experience, you tend to fail casts more often when you have more wounds...

If you have high hp gear, the game will see it as your wounds will be at big and nasty longer, since it goes by overall % of hp.

Less hp + more ac = lower % of failure, more effective use of mana overall.

[The Lemming]

from my experience, you tend to fail casts more often when you have more wounds...

If you have high hp gear, the game will see it as your wounds will be at big and nasty longer, since it goes by overall % of hp.

Less hp + more ac = lower % of failure, more effective use of mana overall.

I think you may be a little off base here. Also if you master your spells it will be very rare for you to fail them even on the verge of death (assuming what you say is true)

[Mmm Coffee]

A bmag should get easily -450 ac without going looking for super ac eq... Thats not hard' date=' add in a few herbs/pills/flowers and you can get it well over that. I did not say ignore AC completely, merely suggested taht when you have found one or two pieces then look for HP with a BMAG[/quote']

A high-dex BMG can pull that off pretty easily...and subsequently get destroyed by one spell.

[L-A]

A high-dex BMG can pull that off pretty easily...and subsequently get destroyed by one spell.

l

Imbessar the Bandit King is here.

Try again next week

L-A

[Jester]

A high-dex BMG can pull that off pretty easily...and subsequently get destroyed by one spell.

ooh ooh, lets play what if! are you kidding me? Anyone can die from power word... regardless of saves, ac, hp, or whatever, we are trying to give them an idea on what is best overall. given the options they gave. nobody said completely negate saves. You will find most items with good ac have one of two things good hit/dam or decent saves. Even if your saves suck, -600 defense to magic is pretty swell with sanctuary.

[a-guitarist]

Hrm, that makes me wonder... does your ac score vs magic lower the damage you take from spells? Or is that all around save vs spell? I always thought the AC only reduced damage from magic weapons, not spells.

a-g