Ranger's arrows should be used by all

Even arrows bought from shops are FAR from useless...

Even arrows bought from shops are FAR from useless...

I want to say several of the specialty arrows are from shops.

I know you can get REAL buff arrows (better than the ones rangers make) by doing a certain repeatable quest.

useless arrows once again they are rare and take up your rare spots and you go through em within seconds... and id rather have plague and sleep arrows personally sell em in the shop thatd be nice.. having arrows that do these skills evens it out against shamans and clerics and no we cant have that can we

useless arrows once again they are rare and take up your rare spots and you go through em within seconds... and id rather have plague and sleep arrows personally sell em in the shop thatd be nice.. having arrows that do these skills evens it out against shamans and clerics and no we cant have that can we

your definition of useless seems to be a far cry from realities definition of it.

to add, even if you could get your hands on those specialty arrows your missing the issue. You see Shamans, Clerics, and any other scroll reading class can neutralize arrows that are fired by anyone without the archery skill.

The inbalance, when in the past these arrows were available to all classes, harmed NON scroll using classes. Imagine playing your berserker and some warrior has 100 sleepy arrows. The issue never was warriors using ranger arrows against communers and casters, it was the ability to pwn non-scroll using classes. Also it allowed characters to utilize sleepy arrows to equip much much easier than was intended (though Z has fixed this in many of the areas where it was an issue)

So you can back off the "oh your protecting what you like to play" mentality. A warrior rarely if ever hits my communers with arrows.

to add in edit : the rare arrows are far from useless since a stack of 100 takes a slot. You can have 100 in your quiver and 100 in your inventory pretty easily. Thats 100 rounds of combat if you constantly fire, far from "gone in seconds"

I feel that if ranger arrows are allowed to be used by other classes, then they should be rares for non archers. Would balance it quite a bit, and make sure that noone has plagues poisons sleepies and fires. At best you might have 2 of them.

Also as far as bows being useless you need to explore the minoma dungeon. The best damage on any ranged ammo in game is in there.

ok so your saying that because warriors were killing zerkers by putting them to sleep and other non scroll using classes they took away the arrows thats just crazy... perhaps insted of taking away a skill from classes make a skill for zerkers to help deflect the arrows... if what your saying is true, now that they removed that people must be obviously making more and more non scroll using classes... wrong infact they make more communers simply because warriors cant stand a chance now and losing the arrows severely messed up ninja's melee capibilities as well.

ok so your saying that because warriors were killing zerkers by putting them to sleep and other non scroll using classes they took away the arrows thats just crazy... perhaps insted of taking away a skill from classes make a skill for zerkers to help deflect the arrows... if what your saying is true' date=' now that they removed that people must be obviously making more and more non scroll using classes... wrong infact they make more communers simply because warriors cant stand a chance now and losing the arrows severely messed up ninja's melee capibilities as well.[/quote']

Ranger arrows were only available to other classes for (and someone correct me timewise if I Am wrong) about a year, from when they came into the game to when they were limited. Taking them away was not a nerf by any means. It not only resolved the new-found balance issues with the arrows being everywhere it made archery more beneficial for its unique nature.

This is far from taking a skill away from anyone, mainly making certain effects for ranged combat exclusive to the archery class giving them value and a unique ability.

I am sorry, you have quite the fight to prove that warriors need help against zerks or other non-scroll using melee classes. Using Warriors and Zerks as an issue, the record is 10 - 1 in the warriors favor.

What I said should remove the influcne of communers / casters form the debate completly. Really, a warrior could be shooting one-hit-kill arrows at any decent cleric..it wont mean diddle since they miss every one.

not help against zerks or other non scroll usings classes they need the arrows against the scroll using classes and communers... its a huge loss for them and a big gain for communers..

I agree. Honestly even when I could use ranger arrows I was still using Mahn Tor's Rage, with those insane Horn Bolts. Those arrows cause some serious serious damage

and just because communers can neutralize the arrows doesnt mean they always do...

not help against zerks or other non scroll usings classes they need the arrows against the scroll using classes and communers... its a huge loss for them and a big gain for communers..

ok, Scoll of missile immunity..

IMMUNITY

only archers can pierce it...

how in the world would giving warriors more types of arrows..get past this one undeniable fact. A decent cleric/shaman/bmg/necro/invoker should always have this spell intact before the fight, or put it up quickly.

When they do not have it up, they get nailed by the current available arrows just fine. You have to take into account the ENTIRE scope of a change. So you give them advanced status applying arrows on the rare chance some cleric forgot his scroll...and screw completly all the non-scroll using classes?

@ Dlysier: Regular arrows are not useless, they are a totally unblockable attack, unless the person is using missile shield. You find me one person who would say "No thanks, an extra MUTILATE-MANGLE every other round is useless to me."

@ Ullquiora: I agree that the ability to create and sell arrows would be cool for rangers, and social interactions. But in the real world, I think it's pretty clear that everyone would soon have ranger arrows, and it would not be from some cool interaction at a ranger arrow market.

Honestly even when I could use ranger arrows I was still using Mahn Tor's Rage' date=' with those insane Horn Bolts. Those arrows cause some serious serious damage[/quote']

Yep, and Dlysier just called them useless.

Mate, your time would have been much more wisely spent ingame asking for help, than arguing with us here how useless non-archery arrows are.

And saying that certain arrows are useless because they are rare is like saying that herbs are usless because they rot.

Omg, give arrows back to everyone and make it usable by everyone. Just make it so arrows are able to be parried/dodged/sblocked (just as offensive as lets say axes for arrows, whips for bolts.. etc) and make archers hae more of a chance to bypass defenses.

Problem solved!

I really think that your looking at things from a one sided standpoint and not factoring in the full scope of what your saying. GIving any class with fired weapons the ability to blind, plague, poison, faerie fire, cause minor lag, or put them to sleep is an unbalancing factor. Look at war vs zerk. Warrior in mithril + a staff with poison arrows. Even a nicely armed zerk is now looking down the face of some trouble since regen is gone and he is just gonna get outdone with dirt flee shoots/sleeps. You recently posted about ninjas needing Camo. From a ninja standpoint, your only increasing their use, but in the scope of the game your heavily unbalancing them. Now to see a ninja reliably you need det hidden, invis and keen sight? Factor in that elves and one entire cabal if you choose it, get autosneak. Your talking about something that walks stealthy everywhere, hides everywhere, and has two ways besides flee to get out of combat (thats more than any other class btw). Your giving an incredible boost to the sneak factor of a ninja. Which even now a smart ninja can get nearly anywhere without really being seen unless its one of the where who who pk every .5 seconds.

I think you should try playing all the classes, and a few of different races, before you can start really getting the spectrum of how to properly balance the game, not an individual class. Classes should have something they suck at (Except rangers, and clerics, they are supposed to rock at everything with ease) so I see no trouble if warrior archery is less effective than ranger archery. I see no problem with ninjas only hiding in cities, I thought that is how they got down anyway. I see no trouble with squids not getting actual weapons. I like that zerks are dangerous to play. I love that invokers cannot solo for crap except in special circumstances. I really think there are only a few minor things that I dislike, I do not suggest them in open forum most of the time because honestly, 95% of us are completely ignorant to what is actually needed in game, so I don't really think our opinions matter on what the game actually needs, only what we think we want.

EDIT: One day I'll learn to keep my mouth shut and not step into things I don't even really care that much about.

Ditto.

I think that if ranger arrows were to be available to all fired weapons classes again they should be balanced by this:

-Can only be used by an Archer made bow.

-The bow will crumble after a certain period of time(4/500 hrs?)

-The bow is rotdeath, and/or-

-The bow will get a "signature" on it in the name of whomever it was originally created for.

This all said I am not in favor of giving such a variety of maladies to classes that I honestly think do not need them on top of the excellent pk skills they already have.

LOL, i'd never roll a feral again if all classes had easy access to fire arrows. those arrows alone annihilate ferals. oh and btw hi! i figured i'd contribute to a debate since it's been a while.

It's my understanding that this was removed for balance reasons and to make rangers more unique. I saw a few statements about warriors being obsolete, I will politely disagree. roll a minotaur or ogre warrior and come back to me.

I hear demons make alright warriors too.

I hear demons make alright warriors too. i hear demons make alright anything lol!