Cabal Warfare System rework

Just a thought here, but perhaps in light of merging the ideas together to create a hybrid. (I recognize and realize the need to decide between RPG and Strategy however this is kind of in between)

Perhaps for the two direct trees in Celerity's suggestion (leadership and tactics I believe?) The L or E for both (not sure if you can have an L of both at the same time, not experienced enough to know) could create a general as per foxx's suggestion. That would open both avenues while leaving the support structure in place as Celerity suggested for the rogue/communer types that cannot solo so well. This would give them a valid point to the army building/conquering warfare AND give the added bonus of the generals that Foxx stated.

As stated above, I am NOT nearly as familiar with the system as you guys and this is just theory. However, I believe that compromises lead to enhanced results when you take two good ideas and turn them into something above and beyond what either were. (and both ideas are great)

Well, just to clarify, there are four groups (leadership, tactics, strategy, support) and the rank in them is the same as your cabal rank. But it might actually be interesting to separate those ranks...mmm!

If we give the generals to only L, well, nobody is going to really see them in the game and they are more like an easter egg. Ls are so rare---I think the last one was Masokant?

As for my path system---that alone won't change very much. You mostly wouldn't even notice it. Like f0xx said, it is essentially the same as the warfare now. But it does open up a little more in terms of tactics/RP and gets us going down the right PATH. It is an expansion of what we have now. Key point is to keep progressing and developing our systems, not to wait three years for planning/discussion. Step by step.

Two things here. Fact' date=' Kaylia had way more cabal points throughout the course of her character. She was VERY generous and selfless in helping Shyntril and Philantees with expensive cabal items. (More than once I might add, for both characters.) To call it ridiculous without ACTUALLY playing the character is in itself ridiculous and ill-informed. Next (and this is my opinion), [b']it's not that hard to gain cabal points. It just takes time people.. Rome wasn't built in a day. I like having to work for that expensive cabal item. It gives me something to look forward to and work for after I'm fully trained and sitting pretty at 50.

Think the only cabal item I received was from yourself, Kurvikhel. Don't remember getting anything from Kaylia. CP's are pretty slow to come by in Syndicate. I didn't buy much at all (maybe 3 items in total), didn't spend any of stats (well, few right toward the start) and ended up with jack all (well, about 4.5k or something?). Part of this reason is the rediculously small cut you get from CP bounties.

That said, some people seemed to have endless CP for life insurance. I'd kill them four, five, six times. Every time they'd have life insurance. Up the price of that ability or remove it. God I hate it.

I have always found CP very easy to gain in Savant, Nexus and even Knight.

I usually not only train all my cabal powers to 95%, I use them constantly, and like to dress in the cabal armor.

and toten, I think you hating that ability is funny. You played, basically, the most unstoppable combo in the game. A set up where, if someone logged in..they either had to kill you or die...how dare they be able ot preserve themselves somehow..geesh

I have always found CP very easy to gain in Savant' date=' Nexus and even Knight.[/quote']

That's because you never log off, my friend

Hah! I definitely bought you a couple of the expensive things after you lost your gear a few times!

I felt like everytime I hit about 10k CPs, everyone in the cabal would die at the same time and I'd have to outfit you and I'm back to 2k, rinse and repeat a couple of times.

Worked really well until I died too and only had 1.5k at the time! Grr...But, being a ninja, EQ was always optional!

It's not something you want to hear, that someone else payed for those Naughty With Nesaren I could only afford it once, and I lost it right away

I have also found cps incredibly easy to attain, even if I suck. They just flow in naturally and I don't spam LI. Syndi was incredibly easy to get cps, Savant was a little bit slower than most cabals, based on my perception of the strange CW aspects of its armies... and Nexus was quite easy to accrue points. It really only takes an average amount of hours played to stock up, except maybe with Glad or something.

To the OP: Great idea. I like it. Celerity: Even better. I like it more.

That said' date=' some people seemed to have endless CP for life insurance. I'd kill them four, five, six times. Every time they'd have life insurance. Up the price of that ability or remove it. God I hate it.[/quote']

This is by no means a potshot at you, but the first time you killed me and I didn't have LI, you full looted me (and I made a horrible mistake in the fight, too). So from then on, I made sure I had it when I fought you. (and no, not talking about Nyra )

Actions beg reactions.

This is by no means a potshot at you' date=' but the first time you killed me and I didn't have LI, you full looted me (and I made a horrible mistake in the fight, too). So from then on, I made sure I had it when I fought you. (and no, not talking about Nyra )[/quote']

Thats alright, because quite frankly I don't pay much attention to what you say most the time. You have been known to bend the truth. I've had people come to me saying you crying about me full looting you, when I took 4 or 5 things. Obviously your idea of full looting isn't the same as most. What a full loot is what I experiend on 9/10 occassions, returning to nothing (sac 1. vs undead). And guess what I think, suck it up. I did. Not taking a pot shot at you, but every time I killed one of your character, there was some lame excuse or rant about me looting some of your goodies.

puts on his L-A voice Has everyone gone soft?

Years ago, everyone used to carry a word of command just to REALLY full loot people. Maybe I am still stuck in this era. Well, apart from Masokant (who only took gear he needed, ie, most of the time everything but my weapons) I was full looted/saced on ever occassion. Generally I stuck around and reequiped straight away and got back into the mix. To those who weren't complete arses about losing their gear, I generally sold back to them everything I didn't need. Maybe I just like to make those who enjoy having a whine about it suffer. Satisfies my evil side.

Most people that killed me got a veiled congratulations. Whether it was me saying they were a powerful opponent or otherwise. All I often received from people was a veiled OOC rant.

Re: Kyzarius, most unstoppable combo. I can only laugh. If thats what you think, then you've alot to learn. I can tell you now, many people managed to run me around on a wild goose chase from when I awoke, to when I had to rest again. I'll be the first to admit, I am not the quickest at the hunt. I've had no will to memorize every direction. I used to know the way, however, alot has changed. Between towns I am sweet. Changes to the holy grove, and place south of miruvhor have screwed me. Add to that the area where the newborns and tritons used to be. Uggh.

Thats alright' date=' because quite frankly I don't pay much attention to what you say most the time. You have been known to bend the truth. I've had people come to me saying you crying about me full looting you, when I took 4 or 5 things. Obviously your idea of full looting isn't the same as most. What a full loot is what I experiend on 9/10 occassions, returning to nothing (sac 1. vs undead). And guess what I think, suck it up. I did. Not taking a pot shot at you, but every time I killed one of your character, there was some lame excuse or rant about me looting some of your goodies.[/quote']

And this is one of the reasons I barely post anymore, because of accusations such as these. While you say it's not a pot shot at me, half of this post was in direct 'pot shotting' distance.

I apologize if you had to deal with someone pasting you something about me being full looted by one of your characters. I personally don't remember it, (and I do remember one occasion. Thanks for not looting my mithril, buddy and I don't talk to that person any more and hardly talk to anyone that is on FL on AIM because of people pasting what I say and then everyone hating me.)

Anyway, the soften up comment you just referred to L-A with, I can say the same thing. Today is a new age. I hate re-equipping when now there's hardly anything to re-equip with. You're damn right if you're one who continues to full loot every RARE I will have LI up as often as possible. I know a lot of people get so upset when this happens, but, if the mechanic is there I'm going to use it. And until the Immortals put a restriction on it and/or remove it entirely from the game I'm going to use it when I feel I might die and don't want to listen to the whole slough of tells saying "You coward!" (And not saying you do that.. a lot of people do though if the first bout doesn't go good).

I'm not soft cuz I use LI. The characters I've had (with the exception of Nyra) were all an uphill battle with you. Like, a WAY uphill battle with you. The kinds of combos that wouldn't normally fight a vampire and simply log off.. but a good thing is, I don't log off when you come to fight me. I turn over and die after trying tactic after tactic after tactic, but you still kick my ***. This gives me as many chances as I have CPs to see what works and what doesn't. I don't think this is a problem, considering your.. (I'll call them rare loots now ) loots put me back days and days.

I can also guarantee every other fight I go into that isn't against YOUR vampires, I don't use LI. That should make you feel good, considering everytime I fight you with whatever race/class combo I have using LI means that I have a feeling I'll get my @$$ kicked. And that's a good sign that you're damned elite with that qclass.

Anyway.. thanks for the reply. You woke me up today

Re: Kyzarius, most unstoppable combo. I can only laugh. If thats what you think, then you've alot to learn. I can tell you now, many people managed to run me around on a wild goose chase from when I awoke, to when I had to rest again. I'll be the first to admit, I am not the quickest at the hunt. I've had no will to memorize every direction. I used to know the way, however, alot has changed. Between towns I am sweet. Changes to the holy grove, and place south of miruvhor have screwed me. Add to that the area where the newborns and tritons used to be. Uggh.

actually I gave you a run around on several of my characters. Only dieing once, on one through your characters entire life (and you and I both know the circumstances around that death, and I still apologize perosnally for my reaction to it). My comment is more in relation to the general pbase than my personal reactions to your character. I know, hell, I played a vamp that stormed the entire pbase. Its easy as hell to pop in, vamp skill somoeone, or lead newer players into a no win situation, if you didnt find it easy to do so then I am suprised.

the problem you, and jibber, and some others have is you view the game from an elitest perspective. Someone dies to you, and to you, their mistake is obvious. From their perspective it is an unknown. They get vamped and cant move, and dont know why, then you use one of your skills so you dont even engage them directly and they dont know whats going on and get destroyed.

You not only played one of the mose covert and versatile quest classes, you also were able to locate individuals pretty much no matter where they hid. These two things, known by someone like me ok..Im ready for it, but 70% of the remaining Pbase doesnt and is not.

They lose a few junk items, to you, but to them its the items they finally got to be able to touch. Now, remove LI, go ahead, and lets complete the screwing of people who are new to the game and are trying to secure some items because this character is one of their first cabal members and hell, if they end up stripped its back to dieing in mithril for a few weeks.

On my current main, I not only do not full loot, but I will whoop up on people then...just stop..let them run away, especially if they have died to me recently...hell why not? I try and let people play the game (unless of course they talk smack about my chasing then its on haha). You can be a scary force, an evil contribution..without just trying to spank everyone in pk(im saying this to you valkynsra)

As far as LI on decked players, meh, if you leave an option for some it will be used by all.

Though just know everyone, going forward, that when I make comments about combos its not neccesarily my personal reaction to them and their prowess. I find very few pvpers in this game challenging at all when I am playing at least half the race/class combos. It is more the RP, exploring new classes I havent played yet, exploring cabals I havent played yet, and the IMM interactions (Zhokril can really mess you up if you keep rping at him) thta keep me going.

One cannot think they are the only person in this game, there are people of varying skill levels from elite pvpers who can kill almost anyone with a cracked shield and their bare hands to those who havent even had a pinn.

Maybe if more elite vet's would take this stance then we would actually be able to have some new people join and have less cases of the f*ck-it's

Laughing and saying I have a lot to learn when I label a Vamp syndicate as nearly unstoppable is not an insult at me. It is an insult to the entire portion of the pbase that has never played a vamp and doesnt know what to do other than to die or log when a syndi vamp logs in.

thats funny jibber, you using LI, when you mocked my character in game for having it up a few weeks back.

thats funny jibber' date=' you using LI, when you mocked my character in game for having it up a few weeks back. [/quote']

That's my in character perspective. In any case, I don't remember mocking anyone lately (and I haven't been playing a detect magic character in awhile)..

Care to message me who you think I was and when it happened? Thanks

That's my in character perspective. In any case, I don't remember mocking anyone lately (and I haven't been playing a detect magic character in awhile)..

Care to message me who you think I was and when it happened? Thanks

everything I posted, and this is all you comment on, beautimus

Believe it or not, I agree with everything you posted. Something wrong with that? :-P

Believe it or not' date=' I agree with everything you posted. Something wrong with that? :-P[/quote']

nope, not at all.

I really support Kyzarius' post on all fronts. I personally think Toten and Jibber might have more to learn than alot of people. Vamp Syndicates are insanely powerful, and have SO many WTF factors. I would go into them, but I don't want to divulge anything that might be taboo, but there are a multitude of mind boggling tactics they can use. I would include liches as just as WTF.

I said awhile back, and I recall Zhokril quoting me, that humility goes along way. I don't personally feel that is really present in alot of current posts, and I am completely fine with reiterating my perspective. Newbies are not bitches for using LI. It makes them not see that all is lost when they get STOMPED by an undead battlemage or a vampire syndicate. Calling vets out for using LI is weak. Let them use it, if staff deems a change necessary, it will be put in.

I see all this "No offense, but" and "I'm not really aiming this at you, but" and it just sours and derails threads with egos getting in the way of a GOOD idea here.

To differentiate this from fact and place it in my opinion, I will state a few things. Regardless of pk aspects, who do I prefer to see when I log in:

Valkynsra or Morgael? Morgael, I enjoy the refreshing mutual ability to RP and feel like something real is happening. Getting stomped and then told to bow or serve is not something I value, and I HIGHLY favor VERY evil characters over any other kind in the game. I think Morchial is the PERFECT template for understanding what a great was to effuse evil is. Obviously not THE way, but he was enjoyable while STILL being powerful.

Nahrgrodj or Philantees? Nahrgrodj. The guy never gives up, he doesn't get pissy if he dies and his intentions don't become very transparent. He proclaims his outlook on life, and RPs in between pking, more than "Give up, or you'll just die again."

If this is perceived as a flame in any way, feel free to moderate me, but I fully suggest Philantees and Valkynsra could get a few pointers from Morgael and Nahrgrodj. Honestly.

Toten and jibber: Everytime we get a discussion about tactics, or powerful characters the two of you are here proclaiming that you're 'not' that tough, are in fact underpowered in some way. Or its not fair, someone looted you (jibber, you've forgotten the locations of more rares than some people have ever gotten) or used LI against you (Toten you've forgotten more about jacking better equiped people by surprise than some of us ever knew).

No matter what either of you say that isn't the case and I'm getting more than a little sick of seeing it. Wake up to yourself - neither of you deserve any sympathy from anyone while you're hallucinating about being 'underpowered.'

As for the Cabal Warfare Ideas I think it should be switced to all mobs, attackable by defenders and attackers. This means there is players and PK interaction which, IMHO, is a good thing.

If you don't want to have to PK don't join a cabal.

L-A