Raargant

[Raargant]

Updated to chapter 4.

[Iconz]

I think the story needs more of the 3 Bs.... beer, blood, and b******.... what great fantasy story doesnt have a good amount of those three? I guess to put it in more sophisticated terms... a tavern scene or two [which i saw that you just put in...]... more descriptive battles [which i also guess will be coming soon...but nothing like some tension to move a story along]... and some sort of love interest/romance thing. Even if it is in small amounts... most guys expect some sort of love interest... even if it is only a one way thing and not mutual...

I gotta say that I thought the story was moving a bit slow at first..but i definitely see that it is picking up, which is a good thing... you have to establish some sort of pace... go too fast and you wont be as descriptive as you want..but go too slow and youll lose interest.

Um...what else... oh... i think at the end of that Tavern scene... it would have been funny/good to have the owner react to Frost beheading someone... since you went out of your way in the beggining of the section to have him there... you could have finished with something like the head rolling to his feet and him reiterating that he *really* needed a drink now...

Also... since you established Owl's excellent insight and eyesight... i was wondering how Frost was the only one that recognized Mat's facial expressions... maybe thats not what you were intending...but i definately read it as Frost was the only one who saw Mat's reaction..

One more thing... you might want to think of use father, instead of dad simply b/c dad sounds so modern to me....

Great story btw! Youve inspired me to finish a short story that i was workin on based on FL that i started like 2 years ago.

__________________

Iconz - Searchin for that old notepad file...

[Raargant]

GREAT! A true R&R! Many thanks!

more descriptive battles [which i also guess will be coming soon...but nothing like some tension to move a story along]... and some sort of love interest/romance thing. Even if it is in small amounts... most guys expect some sort of love interest... even if it is only a one way thing and not mutual...

More descriptive battles will definitely be coming. The story to date (that I've posted at least) is only at chapter 4, after all. There have been a few bloody scenes (the most recent one, and the prologue), but you're correct, there hasn't been an actual 'descriptive' battle, as the prologue (intentionally) stopped just before it occurred.

As for the love interest/romance issue, the love interest has been in the story since the prologue. There's even been a few conversations.

I gotta say that I thought the story was moving a bit slow at first..but i definitely see that it is picking up' date=' which is a good thing... you have to establish some sort of pace... go too fast and you wont be as descriptive as you want..but go too slow and youll lose interest.[/color']

The pace of the story should be speeding up; out of necessity, it has to be slower at first, as a small amount of backstory begins to be built, and we first get a feel for each character.

Um...what else... oh... i think at the end of that Tavern scene... it would have been funny/good to have the owner react to Frost beheading someone... since you went out of your way in the beggining of the section to have him there... you could have finished with something like the head rolling to his feet and him reiterating that he *really* needed a drink now...

I'll think about that.

Also... since you established Owl's excellent insight and eyesight... i was wondering how Frost was the only one that recognized Mat's facial expressions... maybe thats not what you were intending...but i definately read it as Frost was the only one who saw Mat's reaction..

That's a good point. I had actually considered this while writing it, and decided to only refer to Frost noticing primarily because I want Owl to be as unobstrusive and forgettable as possible, by both reader and characters. But I will change it so that it doesn't seem as though Frost's insight is greater than Owl's (which it certainly isn't, despite his funky eyes).

One more thing... you might want to think of use father' date=' instead of dad simply b/c dad sounds so modern to me....[/color']

Another good point. I had chosen 'daddy' and 'dad' to make Hanire sound more childish and petulant, but you're right, that does sound modern. I've changed it.

Thanks a bundle again!

[songofsixpence]

As a thought...if you want to keep the sound childish. Consider using 'papa'. It doesn't have the same modern feeling as dad or daddy, but does keep it in the realm of childishness. I do see that you used pappy, early on with a minor character. But consider having Hanire say papa.

[Evangelion]

Raar, I think what Iconz meant was a more tangible love interest. Or at least some lust interest. You totally could use that tavern wench (I think it was a female) to toss some descriptive adjectives out there. Any guy that's reading the story, as soon as he hears tavern wench, wants to know how nice the T&A is.

As far as other comments... you also didn't use that final beheading to its fullest, as Iconz already mentioned. I would almost like to see two soldiers being left to accompany what's-his-face back to the manor, and when they see Frost about to get sucker-punched, and then behead the guy, they don't do anything, and just leave.

Basically, you have a really great story, a really great pace, and a really great sense of where it's going, but you're only writing a "good" story. The difference between good and great, in this case, is details, details, details.

[Raargant]

Before I respond, I want to say that, as always, I very much appreciate comments.

Basically' date=' you have a really great story, a really great pace, and a really great sense of where it's going, but you're only [i']writing a "good" story. The difference between good and great, in this case, is details, details, details.

There is certainly an element of truth to what you are saying. However, in great part this is dependent on both the individual reader as well as author. You have your Robert Jordan's, who can and will produce massive works filled with an incredible amount of detail and hundreds of thousands of words per book, and whose story has consequently moved at a rather slow pace. But you also have Michael Crichton's, whose stories are extremely plot and action driven, as opposed to descriptiveness.

I enjoy both authors very much, but personally, I do not lean towards Robert Jordan's style of writing, simply because I personally am very story, plot, and character driven. Detailed descriptions, in my mind, should serve to provide richness and ambiance to the world, but first and foremost is the story. It is the characters and their experiences, their interactions, their joys and sorrows which truly capture and retain my imagination. In a way, this is how I played characters in FL as well; I have never had a character who was awarded a dragon for his description, because I personally believe that the 'true' view people have of your character come about from your actions and interactions with them.

This absolutely is not to say that details are not important of course; I'm simply explaining my own view on the detail/pacing dichotomy, and why I personally place somewhat less emphasis on detail.

Raar' date=' I think what Iconz meant was a more tangible love interest. Or at least some lust interest. You totally could use that tavern wench (I think it was a female) to toss some descriptive adjectives out there. Any guy that's reading the story, as soon as he hears tavern wench, wants to know how nice the T&A is.[/quote']

With regards to the 'lust' interest, it may be my personal preference, but I strongly disagree. I strongly believe that such things should be on an as-needed basis. I'm absolutely not ruling such things out; however, I believe that, much as how I wrote above, it should be based upon function, rather than gratuituousness. If it fleshes out a character's personality, fine. If it serves for a plot point, fine. If its a necessary part of the locale/place (ie, let's say they are at a brothel), then of course as well.

In a case like this, though, what would it add? Matheius isn't paying attention to the serving lady, nor is he particularly interested right now, given what has happened in the past few days, so it can't even really be played off in that manner. In my mind, the only purpose sexuality and/or details of her 'T&A' would have, as you put it, is that of providing gratuitous titillation that doesn't really add actual value to the story.

And, if you don't mind me saying, Balinor, (and I mean no disrespect by this, just teasing you a bit), I think when you say, "Any guy that's reading the story, as soon as he hears tavern wench, wants to know how nice the T&A is", that's more indicative of you, personally . You've just turned 18 and are heading off to college now, and, if you don't mind me saying so, I think more than a few forum posters will agree that in the past year or so, your posts on the forum have taken a rather sharp turn towards expressing interest in the 'fairer sex'...

As far as other comments... you also didn't use that final beheading to its fullest' date=' as Iconz already mentioned. I would almost like to see two soldiers being left to accompany what's-his-face back to the manor, and when they see Frost about to get sucker-punched, and then behead the guy, they don't do anything, and just leave.[/quote']

I'll take both your suggestions and that of Iconz in consideration (and I absolutely mean that).

Thanks again. Much appreciated. Chapter 5 will come up Monday.

[Raargant]

As a thought...if you want to keep the sound childish. Consider using 'papa'. It doesn't have the same modern feeling as dad or daddy' date=' but does keep it in the realm of childishness. I do see that you used pappy, early on with a minor character. But consider having Hanire say papa.[/quote']

Thanks for the idea. Papa doesn't feel quite right either. I think I'll leave it at father for now. Thanks again, though.

[EyeSeeU]

If there is one book I read that I could say for you to use as a guide it would be the Blue Nowhere, by Jeffery Deaver. Im not saying this because I think your story resembles it in any way... but how you brought the characters to light and how detailed I think you have made them thus far... for some reason it just reminds me a little of the book in that aspect.

I am sure most of you have read the Blue Nowhere, however if you have not I would suggest it.

Great job thus far.

[Evangelion]

I actually just finished rereading that, and it's a fanstastic book.

However, I fail to see the comparison.

And Raar, your statement about me is fair enough. But in all honesty, take a look at Jordan's books. I don't have them on hand at the moment to find a reference, but when Mat's sitting in a tavern, whether he's there for a reason or just to play dice, Jordan is constantly describing every gory detail. The ugly *** guy passed out on a neighboring table, and the hot waitress' jugs (of mead, duh!!!), it's all part of the mood. Matheius walked into a somewhat crowded tavern at dinner time - and it's sure to be chock full of interesting patrons. You don't just have to describe the wench, you need to set the mood. Is the tavern loud and rowdy, or is it full of a calm, aloof crowd. Anyway, the T&A comment was just expanding on Iconz's statement. For my reading preferences, even though I am anxiously awaiting chapter 5, your story needs something a little more tangible.

[Raargant]

I've never heard of Blue Nowhere. I'll look it up when I get the chance. What genre is it?

Balinor, again, I will take that into consideration. Thanks.

[Evangelion]

It's technically Fiction, though Deaver writes a lot of mystery (and this is considered a mystery), but working at a bookstore, I happen to know that it's in Fiction.

[Raargant]

Err, mystery is considered fiction...

Anything not based on a real story or isn't a real story is considered fiction.

[Evangelion]

Lol.

You've obviously never worked in a bookstore.

Yes, that's technically correct. But even most libraries, at least those with enough books to warrant the seperation, have a division for mystery, romance, sci-fi/fantasy, and then plain jane fiction (IE - Westerns, Classics, Hybrids). You can walk up and down the fiction section at any Barnes & Noble or Borders fifteen times, and never find a Robert Jordan or Nora Roberts book.

For some strange reason that never made sense to me, Steven King is in fiction... even the Dark Tower. It would seem to me that he should be in the sci-fi section...

Anyway, enough derailing. Jeffery Deaver is considered Fiction (subsection: Mystery), and I still see no connection.

[Raargant]

I looked over the synopsis of the story and didn't see much similarities, either. Although synopsis are by nature, very general and vague, of course.

[EyeSeeU]

Whoah there, I said they were not similiar and I wasn't comparing them other then the detail in which I read how you described your characters thus far. Then since people were telling you to add more details I also said you should maybe describe your characters like deaver does to add this detail.

I hope that clears it up, maybe it doesn't oh well I tried to help and thats all you can do.

[Raargant]

Ahhh, gotcha Thanks.

[Raargant]

Came home real late, and it's Monday morning already, so I've posted an early update. Chapter 5 is up. Title: Weave of the Serpent, Howl of the Wolf.

[Evangelion]

This is officially my new reason for waking up on Monday mornings.

[Kinicky]

With regards to the 'lust' interest, it may be my personal preference, but I strongly disagree. I strongly believe that such things should be on an as-needed basis.

I have to agree. However, I think that Matheius is in a unique emotional state where placing the women, particularly the rather 'sexually minded' women, in his path would develop his character quite nicely. I may be reading into the character too much, but I recognize a deep sense of love and loss in reference to the lady he killed. I would not be surprised to recognize a sense of guilt and grief over her, and that plays out quite nicely when other women placethemselves in his path, and he takes no notice. Or perhaps he does respond, but in ways that bring out that sense of his commitment to his lady, even though she is long since dead.

That said, I see a lot of emotion pulsating just under Matheius' surface, and would enjoy seeing it brought out a bit more in his interactions. Currently, he seems to be more in a daze trying to figure out what is going on (and rightfully so), but we fail to see any lingering effects of his inner struggle with slaying those he loves. Certainly this will play heavily on him.

Anyhow, just my thought. I LOVE good character development, so I sometimes focus on it too heavily. Regardless, I am throoughly enjoying your work. Keep it coming!

Kudos,

Kinicky

[corpsestomp]

Fantastic, yet again.

[Raargant]

I have to agree. However, I think that Matheius is in a unique emotional state where placing the women, particularly the rather 'sexually minded' women, in his path would develop his character quite nicely. I may be reading into the character too much, but I recognize a deep sense of love and loss in reference to the lady he killed. I would not be surprised to recognize a sense of guilt and grief over her, and that plays out quite nicely when other women placethemselves in his path, and he takes no notice. Or perhaps he does respond, but in ways that bring out that sense of his commitment to his lady, even though she is long since dead.

That said, I see a lot of emotion pulsating just under Matheius' surface, and would enjoy seeing it brought out a bit more in his interactions. Currently, he seems to be more in a daze trying to figure out what is going on (and rightfully so), but we fail to see any lingering effects of his inner struggle with slaying those he loves. Certainly this will play heavily on him.

Anyhow, just my thought. I LOVE good character development, so I sometimes focus on it too heavily. Regardless, I am throoughly enjoying your work. Keep it coming!

Kudos,

Kinicky

Kinicky,

Thanks very much, and a very good as well as (mostly) accurate analysis! (this is another good example of R&R). I am personally also a strong lover of character development, and you can expect that to be a major focus here as well. Many of my personal favorite literary characters, such as Raistlin Majere, are favorites precisely because their own feelings and backstory and emotions are woven together so masterfully that they invoke feelings from the readers as well.

Matheius, as you probably have noticed by now, is someone whom, for the most part, does not wear his heart on his sleeve, so to speak, and this is intentional. If you compare some of his flashbacks, especially to how he was when he was young, to how he is now, I would hope that the difference between then and now is evident. I want to have that dichotomy between the 'two' Matheius' exist throughout the story. But yes, that is one of the reasons why, as you commented, we have not seen much of it in his interactions with others to date.

My personal hope/desire is for this story to unfold in 2/3 ways; a story of the present, a story of the past (through flashbacks), and a story of a person, Matheius, and how both past and present converge upon him. Thus, even as the storyline unfolds, so too does Matheius as a character, hopefully drawing in readers' imagination regarding both the story and the person along the process.

Will I succeed? I only know through people like you who R&R, and thank you so much when you do

On a side note, I -might- not post a chapter this Thursday. I try to write 3 chapters each week while posting 2, but last week was a pain in the buttocks with me working over 21 hours of overtime, so I ended up only finishing two instead. We'll see if I can make up for it this week

Until then, thanks for reading, and even more for reviewing!

[Raargant]

Updated to Chapter 6: The Face of Elaiana.

[Evangelion]

Yeah, thanks a lot, jerk.

Way to not update this morning, so I had nothing to do before classes. :-P

[Raargant]

Whine, bitch, moan.

[Evangelion]

Heh.

Up to your usual standards.

Now I really want to know what the deal behind the end of that scene was... but I guess I won't get to until you update again.