Healthy discussion about ferals.

Drow: STR: 18 INT: 24 WIS: 20 DEX: 24 CON: 16

Slith : STR: 20 INT: 17 WIS: 17 DEX: 22 CON: 21

Feral: STR: 19 INT: 18 WIS: 21 DEX: 24 CON: 20

Perks/negatives:

Drow: auto sneak, learn everything in one practice, fast training, huge manapool/ac, virtually no vuln - no downsides really cant wear mithril.

Slith: autotrip, extra attack, shed, eyelids, no vuln, downside would be size i guess?

Feral: extra attack sometimes, higher defenses, fury, same ac as drow, detect motion, human like hp with ogre like vuln that easily exploited by every class / perks tend to rely on luck as apposed to being stagnant.

please state whether you think they are fine or need a tone up or tone down and why..

my personal thoughts: i think their vuln is a bit too much because you need virtually an entire set dedicated to protecting against magic. edit: might need to lose a perk to balance it, however it will make them a bit more playable.

I feel like it was the original intent with ferals. I mean they're still incredibly strong against people who can't use fire. The people who can use it get to eat their vuln which was... the point. I like them as is, now they're not such a WIN race which I personally believed before. Gotta consider how to work around the vuln.

Why compare ferals to only drow and slith?

Also, the drow vuln can be HUGE when hit with any type of throw. Tack on low drow hp and you have a vuln that cannot be ignored.

The way I see it ferals are fine. Tweaking of fireball should be looked at over the entire spectrum, not against one race.

Ferals can generally overcome their vuln vs melee unless they are very much out equipped or they get backstabbed while asleep.

It is the magical fire that is the problem, especially invokers who have fireshield, firestorm, and fire direct damage at an increased rate of fire. (no pun intended)

The way I see it ferals really only have one bane, and that is invokers, the rest of the classes could potentially get pwned by a well played feral.

Their racial perks are tops in my opinion, sense motion is incredibly useful, as is fury (albeit luck based). Their defense bonus is nothing to scoff at and the mini haste is supremely useful. They make formidable clerics for these reasons. I bet even a feral shaman would be deadly...

Slith have nice perks too, but they are much dumber than ferals, and only 2 pracs per lvl. They suck to train but once you have done it they can really rock. I'd say slith should probably have a vuln actually, but more along the line of the elf/drow vuln.

Slith and drow cost 500 exp. Ferals gain ranks far faster and enjoy a more amiable pk range through their ranking time. I know feral vulns are the latest OMG, but I think it will settle itself down in time. Ferals have always been extremely hurt by fire, a few very great players surmounted these vulns with some truly awesome characters. I am sure the Syndicate could provide you with a list of ferals that could prove my point. It is not easy being a feral no, but the only thing that costs less to play is a human, and they have zero racial bonuses. I like ferals, I play them often, in the beginning I thought they were OP, intro a certain infamous Drow Savant L Invoker. I think they are "balanced".

Why compare ferals to only drow and slith?

comparing drows and ferals for clerics / shamans

comparing slith with ferals for blademaster / thief

i suppose ogre could be included for warrior / ranger as well, however i was trying to compare ferals to more dex based races.

feel free to add any other races you think they should compare to or expand on my post if it is misleading. I have a tenancy to sway my thoughts based upon my feelings so i wont be offended at all if you want to edit it.

thanks for the comments so far.

Ferals are fine. I got beat by someone who used fireball, but easily could have used other spells. Im not complaining about it, it can be worked around. Quite easily honestly. Healing items most notably. Ferals have some insane bonuses (what else gets four polearm attacks) so having a glaring (one type) vuln is ok.

Ferals were created while the fireball code was 'bugged'. If the fireball code was bugged, I'd imagine the ferals are slightly bugged, vuln wise. Fix it!

Ferals' vuln is too much for their stats/perks.

Ferals are fine. I got beat by someone who used fireball' date=' but easily could have used other spells. Im not complaining about it, it can be worked around. Quite easily honestly. Healing items most notably. Ferals have some insane bonuses (what else gets four polearm attacks) so having a glaring (one type) vuln is ok.[/quote']

the problem with "perks" like mini haste is there are items that can grant other races haste outright like minotaur for example. i think there are some boots that give a mini haste effect and there is a rod.

does ferals natural haste and a casted haste stack? if so then it is good, if not its better to just take another race and get one of the haste items and avoid the vuln, like dwarfs who have a static magic resist that you can always count on instead of praying that fury lands and a much larger hp pool to cover their vuln, you'd end up with lower defenses but it doesn't really matter because defenses do not protect against the vuln really since fired weapons,throw,scrolls,spells and just about everything else that hits their vuln avoids defenses completely anyway. I don't kill ferals by hitting them with 4-5 attacks per round. i kill them using very defensive weapons and hitting their vuln with unblockable damage.

Ferals aren't hasted naturally Sandbox. They have a small bonus to their melee.

Ferals aren't hasted naturally Sandbox. They have a small bonus to their melee.

thanks for clearing that up.

Ferals may seem weak on paper if you guys only highlight the bad points. So here are the good points.

Extra attack, which DOES stack with haste. Making pugil with murder rounds insanely damaging, and still defensive.

103 in defenses, combined with high dex, making this the most defensive race in this game. Combine that with some items, and sockets, from around the globe, and you have something that is VERY hard to hit, unless they go all suicidal and use crap defensive tactics.

Fury, you give me a race, that can cause people to forget how to cast, and they do it VERY cheap mana wise? I believe as Zix I killed a shaman by ONLY using fury. We where in decobru and all I did was fury he flees and I open the same way each time.

You have very high dex, and because of that high AC, I get extra attacks, uber defenses, and the ability to screw mages, and all I am is highly combustable? I will take that hook, line, and sinker. You take away, or tone, feral vuln, you make ferals the best race for Clerics, Thieves, Ninjas, Blms etc etc. Learn to deal with vulns. Noone bitches when they eat 750 damage from fireball, but are looting the corpse of the invoker who they just killed. They just toss out a good game, and move on.

Ferals may seem weak on paper if you guys only highlight the bad points. So here are the good points.

Extra attack, which DOES stack with haste. Making pugil with murder rounds insanely damaging, and still defensive.

103 in defenses, combined with high dex, making this the most defensive race in this game. Combine that with some items, and sockets, from around the globe, and you have something that is VERY hard to hit, unless they go all suicidal and use crap defensive tactics.

Fury, you give me a race, that can cause people to forget how to cast, and they do it VERY cheap mana wise? I believe as Zix I killed a shaman by ONLY using fury. We where in decobru and all I did was fury he flees and I open the same way each time.

You have very high dex, and because of that high AC, I get extra attacks, uber defenses, and the ability to screw mages, and all I am is highly combustable? I will take that hook, line, and sinker. You take away, or tone, feral vuln, you make ferals the best race for Clerics, Thieves, Ninjas, Blms etc etc. Learn to deal with vulns. Noone bitches when they eat 750 damage from fireball, but are looting the corpse of the invoker who they just killed. They just toss out a good game, and move on.

pwnt

Noone bitches when they eat 750 damage from fireball' date=' but are looting the corpse of the invoker who they just killed. They just toss out a good game, and move on.[/quote']

lol, that wouldnt be a feral looting that corpse.. 750 damage would kill a feral outright unless all your gear is + hp.

My feral ninja Zalozen had more than 750 hps naturally, with careful practicing/training/questing.

My feral ninja Zalozen had more than 750 hps naturally' date=' with careful practicing/training/questing.[/quote']

i wouldnt consider questing naturally since not all players know all quests, however was this from 1 practice on skills?

lol' date=' that wouldnt be a feral looting that corpse.. 750 damage would kill a feral outright unless all your gear is + hp.[/quote']

/---------------/----------------------------------------------\

| Grawrer || Gladiator of GLADIATOR |

---------------/----------------------------------------------/

| Str: 19(19)^3 || Level: 50 Sex: M Age : 65(190h) |

| Int: 18(18)^2 || Class: ninja Ethos: chaotic |

| Wis: 21(21) || Race : feral Align: neutral |

| Dex: 24(24)^9 || Hp : 926/926 Exp : 170329/392071 |

| Con: 14(14) || Mana : 688/763 |

\ Lck: [||||--] / Move : 572/572 +Hit: 32 +Dam: 22 /

/---------------/------------------/--------------------------\

| ARMOR || SAVES || Deity : Lytholm |

| Slash : -368 || Spell : -16 || Faith : Combat |

| Pierce: -374 || Afflictive : -62 || Weight: 237/350 |

| Blunt : -382 || Maledictive: -15 || Items : 36/41 |

| Magic : -361 || Mental : -19 || Prac : 0 Train: 0 |

| || || Gold : 29k CP: 540 |

---------------/------------------/--------------------------/

/ Condition: You are covered with deep scars and lacerations. \

| 8 more hours must pass before a cabal promotion. |

| [sAVANT] forces are aiding your mind. |

---------------------------------------------------------------/

926 hp on a ninja, I imagine a warrior could break 1000 with eq. And as you can see I wasn't lacking too badly in other stat departments. I think (but may be totally wrong) that neutrals and goods have more access to +hp gear than evils.

/---------------/----------------------------------------------\

| Rhazhakhar || Slayer of STALKER |

---------------/----------------------------------------------/

| Str: 19(19) || Level: 50 Sex: M Age : 39(358h) |

| Int: 18(18) || Class: ninja Ethos: chaotic |

| Wis: 21(21) || Race : feral Align: neutral |

| Dex: 24(24) || Hp : 810/810 Exp : 170110/392290 |

| Con: 18(18) || Mana : 720/720 |

\ Lck: [|||||-] / Move : 412/412 +Hit: 3 +Dam: 5 /

/---------------/------------------/--------------------------\

| ARMOR || SAVES || Deity : Eshaine |

| Slash : -5 || Spell : 0 || Faith : Nature |

| Pierce: -5 || Afflictive : 0 || Weight: 0/350 |

| Blunt : -5 || Maledictive: 0 || Items : 0/41 |

| Magic : -5 || Mental : 0 || Prac : 3 Train: 0 |

| || || Gold : 0 CP: 1.5k |

---------------/------------------/--------------------------/

/ Condition: You are covered with deep scars and lacerations. \

| You are ready for a cabal promotion. |

---------------------------------------------------------------/

Proof that feral ninjas have more than 750 base hit points. Here in my deletion thread I was naked. Feral ninjas are extremely powerful. They don't need any buffing or nerfing.

its been a long time but for some reason i remember having around 650 hp lol. did any of your gear add to hp?

its been a long time but for some reason i remember having around 650 hp lol. did any of your gear add to hp?

Read my post.