Nasty!

[f0xx]

I will also say that I now hide or log off any and every time I see him on' date=' period. I refuse to fight something that can kill me at will without my being able to do ANYTHING (at least with a bash lock I still have my mana).[/quote']

This is the case with me as well, and I have noticed its not the case with me only... I am seeing A LOT of charecters log off when he enters...

Fighting that psi is like fighting an invoker without being able to leave the battle in any way... and lets not forget that even if one manages to get his sanctuary up, you are still standing without mana and fighting an opponent that can heal his whole HP in 1 spell... not fun and very discouraging to say the least...

I know people who dumped their characters because of that psi, I know I dumped one too...

I know that the person who plays it is very skilled, but this does not mean that the combo is not overpowered...

[Pali]

I agree completely with Grish. Outside of this single spell, I think psis are fine. They SHOULD be tough; it takes a lot of work to get to 50 twice and you should get benefits for it. However, a spell of this power? I'd take that over tesseract and catalyst (1.0 Savant skills for those who don't know) combined.

[WagesofSin]

*Wonders how many of those complaining ever played a psi.*

[Evangelion]

*dismay*

These are exactly the kind of remarks that made Martineius and Despiser leave.

You haven't figured out how to beat him yet - suck it up. Keep fighting, learn how, or quit. Roll up a Tribunal, and wait out the storm.

But don't bitch someone out for playing a character that they've put a lot of time and effort into, just because you can't beat them in PK.

Harden up, princess. (PsiSkill pun not intended)

[Sirax]

I fought him and nearly got him with a great deal of ease the first time and that was after him landing said spell (though luckily I was prepared) second round was just plain embarassing, he landed said spell again had a ****/shower/shave and a sleep while my spells dropped then he begain battering me while I could do squat but take the pain. That said everyone has been saying psi's needing toning up maybe they have? :eek:

[Nomak]

Psi don't need anything but toning down this imbalanced spell.

[Chayesh]

I want to outline a couple of things after reading this thread.

1. Sarcon, pull something like this again where you essentially repost the same post AFTER being edited and locked, and you will be gone permanently. No, I'm not kidding. You can have a two-day forum vacation for this instance.

2. Others are posting that they can kill Psi's, but then claim that they are overpowered due to one spell or ability. These two ideas cannot co-exist. If you can kill him, then they aren't "overpowered". Also, if you can kill him, why are you bitching? Sadly, it seems there are still some here that feel if they aren't the ultimate badass in Aabahran, something must be wrong with the game, a class, a power, etc. This is the wrong attitude if you trying not to have a heart attack before you turn 35.

While we certainly look at balance issues constantly, a single stand-out player beating up people with a single stand-out character in a class that has shown little to no stand-out characters for quite some time hardly seems like something that is out of balance. If anything, it would lend itself to the thought that having not fought them much in the past, most of the playerbase would not have a solid, effective strategy for dealing with this class when played well.

This player is not exploiting a known bug, is not cheating, is not doing anything more than making full use of the abilities their skill and RP earned with this quest class. Balance is not determined solely by how well your specific character does against a single opponent, regardless of how elite you think you are. Balance is found in looking at the bigger picture, not isolated incidents. Perhaps the ability is fine as is, perhaps not. But either way, the decision to keep or change it will not be made on the basis of griping posts about how one player or one class has "no hope" against a single player or a single class.

[Grishnak]

This player is not exploiting a known bug, is not cheating, is not doing anything more than making full use of the abilities their skill and RP earned with this quest class. Balance is not determined solely by how well your specific character does against a single opponent, regardless of how elite you think you are. Balance is found in looking at the bigger picture, not isolated incidents. Perhaps the ability is fine as is, perhaps not. But either way, the decision to keep or change it will not be made on the basis of griping posts about how one player or one class has "no hope" against a single player or a single class.

While I totally agree with you, Chayesh, I'd also like to say that most of us (at least those of us making intelligent arguments rather ) aren't trying to say that the class is "OVERPOWERED". We're simply bringing to light, not bitching (again, for most of us) an ability that obviously a large number of people think is a bit...off. One of my frustrations with the taboo on discussing the effect (even in minor detail) of QClass abilities is that there can never be an intelligent debate about that class' strengths/weaknesses.

I think we all recognize that all psions are by no means "OVERPOWERED" (I hate this word). They are killable, and they, depending on your selections, can even be pretty gimpy in some forms. What the playerbase is reacting to isn't a common hatred for a particular player, character, or class (as, from reading the old posts, was the problem with Martineus. Festy is skilled, moreso than probably 95% of the players here, and his RP with Wyslign is inspiring at the very least. People aren't upset because they are being beaten in PK. That happens every day. We all have egos, but I don't think (again, only the intelligent arguments included) most of us think we're invincible or even "the best" at FL.

What people are upset about is the fact that they can be "frozen" for 7 ticks without a chance to save against it, without a way to break the hold. Again, with the taboo, this thread should probably be closed, but I do think that single skill, not the class or even path as a whole, not the player, needs some consideration.

I'd love to see a small group of trusted players (new and old) chosen to be a committee in times like this. Bring them together on the test port, under aliases for character names if you don't want them to be known to each other, and have a discussion. It would allow for intelligent debate on these topics without the inevitable "idiot" post that is so often seen on the forum, that makes it harder on the rest of us.

[Kyzarius]

haha, was it not like..oh a month ago that people were complaining that psi needed a boost? :eek:

And truthfully, beating a psi just takes some prior planning. I know of ONE SINGLE POTION that can make things VERY difficult for him.

[Iyorvin]

Ghris, I like your idea of a committee, would it be like a gathering of vets/elite, that no one else would know their identity. And they would discuss things like balance issues, skill/spell effects...........wait.....sounds like those people I know who do that stuff I like when I make a new character.

Personally, always found the best method for intelligent converstations and debates about the class/race/spell/skill will always be reached in the prayer forum.

Last of all, just make an alteration psi. If you are too lazy, or can't be bothered, did you ever think that it's that attitude that is reflected in your pk that is causing your downfall anyway?

I think the game has just been ingrained into our minds for so long that this is the way things are, that when we do introduce things that are new and hard to achieve, it just throws us off. The limitations I have are unreal. I spend more down time then a vampire. I have less potential then a vampire.

None of my skills are bugged in a beneficial way. The part of my character that is bugged are all in negative, and in most cases lethal, ways. I'm nearly half condead, and for me, I don't think I've reached that state in years.

I will say thanks though. It's because of threads like this my forum penis keeps growing. My ego is so ultra inflated I think it might burst. I think I need to go for a walk, hopefully I don't float away.

[Grishnak]

Ghris, I like your idea of a committee, would it be like a gathering of vets/elite, that no one else would know their identity. And they would discuss things like balance issues, skill/spell effects...........wait.....sounds like those people I know who do that stuff I like when I make a new character.

I don't even understand what that last statement means. If it's an attempt at sarcasm/insult, it could have been done better.

If you are too lazy' date=' or can't be bothered, did you ever think that it's that attitude that is reflected in your pk that is causing your downfall anyway?[/quote']

I don't want to sound egotistical or like an *** here, but I'm going to and I apologize up front. I don't make a psi because I've played psis, both new and old, and find myself missing the old ones too much. As for it reflecting my "pk that is causing my downfall anyway" I don't play much anymore. When I do make a character, I make an RP-based character who, usually, isn't an aggressive pk'er. My current character is a hermit who can't even speak properly and has the noyell command enabled (removing my ability to even warcry, mind you). That same character has 4 pdeaths at 50 (two of those to Wyslign) and MANY more kills. He often doesn't finish a kill because, as he will tell you, he isn't a bloodthirsty animal. He is a neutral who enjoys his time in the forest. Every once in a blue moon I will keep up a chase and you can ask anyone who has fought him, when I care to chase I don't fall behind.

All of that is irrelevant, and I'll admit I probably shouldn't even acknowledge the fact that you defend a logical assessment of abilities (I'm not saying it isn't open to debate) by sarcastic attacks on the people making them, but I have my ego as well. I never said your skills are bugged. I never accused you of exploiting a bug. I said that one of your skills should be looked and and evaluated, and gave a list of reasons why I thought it was a bit much. You're more than welcome to make your arguments as to why it isn't (and I can sympathize with many of them), but to attack me as a player instead of offering a different side of the debate shows a level of maturity that is disappointing.

This is the second or third time I've seen you take someone's frustration at an ability your character has as an attack on your own skill. No one is calling you a cheater. No one is calling you unskilled. People are asking that one of those abilities be reconsidered. I'll agree that the debate should continue in the prayer forum. I posted in the prayer forum a month or two ago about it and got a single response that consisted of:

Dirt, order a rescue, then he can't reaim. You can then spam flee and get out and have enough of the tick to get a fair distance away. Seen another player use this tactic and nearly kill him as he didn't see the rescue.

While much appreciated, that doesn't exactly make the prayer forum "the best method for intelligent converstations and debates about the class/race/spell/skill."

The fact that your character has it rough (and memorization sucks, I won't deny that) and is negatively bugged doesn't justify a power that seems to be very unfair. I'm sure there are classes (esp races) that can punch a hole in you, but I'm of the opinion no one should have literally 0 chance of survival (to say nothing of victory) when facing any certain opponent, no matter how prepared.

Do we really exist in a community that is so closed to discussion of the taboo that players aren't allowed to voice their opinions of something they feel isn't right without being attacked and called whiners? Yes, some people will moan about damn near anything. That's the nature of people. But to deny the ability to do so is to promote stagnation, which we all know is the death of any game.

['tarako]

'M: Oh look, this isn't an argument.

A: Yes it is.

M: No it isn't. It's just contradiction.

A: No it isn't.

M: It is!

A: It is not.

M: Look, you just contradicted me.

A: I did not.

M: Oh you did!!

A: No, no, no.

M: You did just then.

A: Nonsense!

M: Oh, this is futile!

A: No it isn't.

M: I came here for a good argument.

A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.

M: An argument isn't just contradiction.

A: It can be.

M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.

A: No it isn't.

M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.

A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.

M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'

A: Yes it is!

M: No it isn't!

A: Yes it is!

M: Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.

(short pause)

A: No it isn't.

-Monty Python, "Argument Clinic"

[Calron]

To whoever brought up that point about "this is exactly what caused Despiser to leave", the skill in question was determined to be overpowered and changed afterword. Many people were not nice about it, which caused his departure. However, the point you are making is not relevant here.

Secondly, some advice to most of you. If you want your post to be considered, phrase it politely, calmly, and in a manner conducive to mature debate. When you send in a job application you don't say "I am the best person ever to be in marketing; I destroy every obstacle that stands in my way and I was the best employee at all of my jobs before; therefore, you should hire me because I say you should." You give them a logical list of reasons why you should be hired, and phrase it in a modest yet positive light. Take the time to use proper grammar, sentences, paragraphs, and write, rather than a "stream of consciousness" flow of what you are thinking.

[The Wayward Knight]

Or, you could fill out the application with British humor, and hope you win them over with a lack of funny.

[Iyorvin]

Well you obviously took a completely sarcastic post and become way too defensive.

1. The first paragraph was a Fry attempt from Futurama. Maybe WC would of gotten it.

2. The part about being too lazy, and it being reflected in peoples pk was not an assault at you. It was a generality that many can see for themselves. My advice to you regarding this matter is, FIGHT. You have fought and died twice. You openly admit that twice is enough to 100% guarentee you know this skill is overpowered. When in fact it isn't the skill in question that really messed you up. And on the reverse side, seeing as your argument states that I can do skill a, and then skill b, to elongate the wait time, is not 100% correct.

3. Yes, we are in a community that does taboo the discussion of these things. And until an IMP declares that not so, I am going to follow that general rule.

And I refuse to post anymore. This post is my serious retort to your post, because I like you. My first post was a huge joke aimed at this entire thread, because this thread is nothing more than a big joke. I know a lot of people, including you, have serious issues or concerns. The fact of the matter is, when you have others posting like morons, others who don't know English as their first language, things look rediculous. This is a thread of perfect evidence to my biggest pet peeve.

Not a single person who posted here has had an alteration psi save me.

Most of the people posting here have OOC connections where this is being discussed. Including those with access to the code who are informing.

Most of the people posting don't fight me, refuse to fight me, have a mind set they have no chance at victory.

I died three times yesterday.

I died four times in the last week.

I'm nearly half condead.

['tarako]

'hmmm. For being overpowered and unbeatable you die alot. Must be to hunger. British humor can solve everything if you throw enough of it around. (im not british btw) Why did despiser leave? And warrior cleric and archangel? Or do i just not notice them?

[Grishnak]

It's the idea that a sarcastic post has a place in what should be a meaningful debate that frustrates me in the first place. And, when you start a post with my name followed by a comma, it's natural for me to assume that the entire post is directed as a response to me unless otherwise noted later. If there was a misunderstanding in that situation then so be it.

We have fought more than two times. I stopped fighting you when you started using another spell (that I think would be completely fine without the setup of the spell in question and which is why I'm not arguing about that spell) twice in a row to ensure that I couldn't get away, creating a practical, and unstoppable, lag-lock so long as you play it right (again, due to the setup beforehand).

You can't fight or learn from an experience in which you could have done nothing differently. You can't learn from a death where your only mistake is not initiating the attack 100% of the time (throughout each flee/return). Therefore, with nothing left to learn except more about the limits of my patience/frustration, I stopped fighting you.

I won't post on this thread again, as well. I agree that, with the open state of the forums, a meaningful debate is impossible. My future arguments will be on the prayer forum and I'm sorry for argument this thread became.

[Mindflayer]

I defeated Wyslign twice with my feral ranger Rukaal. The guy gave you all a big hint... its all about aggression. Overload the little toad ;P

[Grumpy]

Ye, I've also seen Wyslign dying left and right. So there are people who obviously know how to fight and trash him. So if you are having trouble, just ask around in game and I think you will be able to find a solution to the Wyslign problem. For the note, I have now fought him and have held my own, I certainly have theories on how to beat him. Its not something I can post though. So lets give Psis some time and see how it goes.

[Mindflayer]

think of mid battle consumables

[The End]

A battle with a PSI is just like any other, preperation is key.

An unpreped BMG is putty, absolute putty. If you are the agressor against a PSI, it is hard for them to catch up. Yes, they have certain advantages over certain classes, but not all of them.

A faerie has little base HP, use that as an advantage.

[Guest emp_newb]

I fought wyslign a few times with vasraema, and in my experience, it is not his char or skills that are overpowered, sure I disagree with how things work, but unless he gets the drop on you he is trashed. And guess what, most of the time if someone gets the drop on you, you are running, or dead. If you do not know how to fight a psi, or what to expect, try making one, that will point out the utterly blatant spots in defenses to exploit