ranger complaint thread

There are a lot of personal views presented as "facts" in this thread.

I noticed the repeating of herb being better than acupuncture though, and that is false.

I have also had rangers with >60 hitroll who barely hit polearm wielding warriors (who have less than 18 dex) and that is while wielding whips.

In the end it all depends on player skill, preparation and cabal choices.

You might be surprised to find out that Lianthias (elf ranger) easily outdamaged my demon dk with dual full malforms when we were both blinded.

Now this is just rediculous

Sorry, but how can you give a ranger who is wielding mindflayers and is ELDER in Knight as example about overall power of rangers? So many twisting of "facts" guys, please stay non-biased eh?

The only way rangers can get really powerfull are through specific EQ and/or cabal skills (Svenik, Lianthias, Triathix, Corinkorth and so on).

But the same thing goes about warriors, blademasters, clerics, battlemages, thieves (I recently had my oh-so-powerful feral ranger killed by pure backstab - SO OP!!!), paladins, invokers, DKs, shamans and basicly every class with the right selections.

First things first. If you ever want to be taken seriously, do not name something "Ranger COMPLAINT Thread." Ranger Discussion, Ranger Ideas, all of those would have worked much better.

Second of all, I've played my fair share of rangers (Andrella, most recently, followed by Grump). I consider myself to have done fairly well with them. I have also played two paladins, one of which (Tiernan) I consider myself to have done fairly well with. And finally, I have played a multitude of blademasters. Overall, I would rank them in the following manner:

Defense:

Paladin > Blademaster > Ranger

Offense:

Blademaster > Ranger > Paladin

Survivability:

Ranger > Paladin > Blademaster

Now, since these are the three classes we arbitrarily chose for comparison, let's talk about why I rated it this way.

Defense

Paladins, quite simply, are ridiculously defensive creatures. In addition to their attrition tactics (which I consider a mechanism of defense, not survivability), they are second to none, and quite frankly, it should be nigh impossible to actually out-melee a properly geared paladin. Blademasters are also quite defensive, but this is dependent on stance/weapon choice. And finally, rangers are considerably the least defensive. The reason I selected them for this rating is because frankly, most of the OFFENSE of a ranger comes from their pets, and, the old adage being: "The best defense is a good offense," ranger pets fall short in that they are so easily killed.

Offense

Blademasters have some of the highest output, offensively, in the game. However, to achieve this maximum output, there are some sacrifices that must be made. Granted, there are certain power combos that, when synergized correctly, allow you significantly higher offensive output at least defensive cost. So overall, I'm going to place these at the top of our arbitrary three offensively. Rangers come next since, for a non-AoE (sorry, I've been playing WoW) spellcaster, it is difficult to efficiently rid them of their pets in a timely manner, while not being incredibly outdamaged. And finally comes the paladin. The average paladin player will EITHER have an incredibly difficult time with casters/communers or with melees, depending on how they choose to gear. Combining the rarity of gear with the amount of excessive equipment a paladin needs to successfully prepare for both melees AND C/Cs, it is nearly impossible to have a paladin that is adequately prepared to fight both types of opponents at all times. If you don't believe me on this one, ask Festorvian, who experimented heavily in this field with Dyendas.

Survivability

Finally, we have the third and final "check and balance." Rangers are, without a doubt, one of the more successfully survivable classes in the game. They have healing abilities, camouflage, and a significant AC buff. As a result, unless you're fighting a GOOD shaman, it is pretty hard to die as a ranger if you fight cautiously. Second comes the paladin who, for obvious reasons, comes in second (even though I maintain that their curatives are a defensive mechanism). And finally, comes the blademaster. Blademaster is one of the easiest classes to out-attrition, because A) They have to choose between healing hp or mana, and Once they're OUT of mana, they're dead, no questions asked.

And so we come to the conclusion of my little spiel. I would say that, for starters, rangers don't need a damned thing. At the beginning of my career as Andrella, I would have originally said that warriors needed a buff against rangers, since I had my way with them regularly. However, after fighting Thulgan and Rhahernrt (who I know was not a warrior, but who still regularly outmeleed me), I don't think that other melees are completely at a loss against rangers - rather, I suspect it is the result of something more commonly referred to as "user error." While I'm not sure why we arbitrarily selected blademasters and paladins as a sources for comparison, having played a number of all of the aforementioned classes, these are my thoughts along those lines. Make of them what you will.

Edit: I apologize for typos/grammatical errors - I wrote this in the Quick Reply box, and it's late.

There are a lot of personal views presented as "facts" in this thread.

I noticed the repeating of herb being better than acupuncture though, and that is false.

I have also had rangers with >60 hitroll who barely hit polearm wielding warriors (who have less than 18 dex) and that is while wielding whips.

In the end it all depends on player skill, preparation and cabal choices.

Now this is just rediculous

Sorry, but how can you give a ranger who is wielding mindflayers and is ELDER in Knight as example about overall power of rangers? So many twisting of "facts" guys, please stay non-biased eh?

The only way rangers can get really powerfull are through specific EQ and/or cabal skills (Svenik, Lianthias, Triathix, Corinkorth and so on).

But the same thing goes about warriors, blademasters, clerics, battlemages, thieves (I recently had my oh-so-powerful feral ranger killed by pure backstab - SO OP!!!), paladins, invokers, DKs, shamans and basicly every class with the right selections.

fially someone who gets it. You take a class that is probably one of the most balanced classes in the game ' ranger ' then put him in a cabal that is very offensive and give him two big weapons and pin him up against characters who are pure offense or pure defense then ofcourse he's going to be strong.

his skills do not:

1. allow him to lag

2. allow him to prevent lag

these are the core of strong offense and strong defense and one of the major proponents of what causes the win in a fight. If you can do neither of these then you are in a world of hurt.

i've seen what a smart warrior with a polearm can do to a skilled ranger and its not pretty, the ranger has to do alot of "out of combat" tricks to keep up.

When you talk about balance you have to look at the skills, not specific characters really because those characters all had diffrent consumables, different cabals, different gear sets and its going to just skew the results too much.

this is silly' date=' if their skillset is stronger at 50 it doesnt matter how hard the 3-7 days were that it took to rank up.[/quote']

Yes, it does. If I have to work harder for something, I should be rewarded more for it. That's the entire basis of the exp penalty system on races and classes, for skills being practiced only to 75 and needing to be trained to 100, for starting at level 1 rather than at level 50, for gathering eq rather than being given identical sets with each life, for having to earn cabal memberships and ranks, for gathering consumables rather than being given every possible spell. More work being rewarded with greater power is a massive part of how this game is structured.

I agree that ranger lag is not reliable. But with the tracker path, you don't need it. It is so ridiculously easy to follow people with that path, that they are not going to have time to rest up or regenerate much health or hp.

There are ways around track as well.

Ofcourse, it is not as easy as running away from other classes, but that is the whole point of the skill.

Good luck getting away from an intelligent tracker.

If the 'ways' you are talking about includes crossing water, then that's not really a legitimate escape.

There are so few bodies of water in FL that even if they can't track you over water, they know where you're going anyway.

its not that hard to lose them imo..

and if your crafty yuo can lead them into trouble.

Yes' date=' it does. If I have to work harder for something, I should be rewarded more for it. That's the entire basis of the exp penalty system on races and classes, for skills being practiced only to 75 and needing to be trained to 100, for starting at level 1 rather than at level 50, for gathering eq rather than being given identical sets with each life, for having to earn cabal memberships and ranks, for gathering consumables rather than being given every possible spell. More work being rewarded with greater power is a massive part of how this game is structured.[/quote']

then why are we upset about balance? just increase the xp penalty. according to your logic that should make up for it am i right?

Track should definitely use much more mana and lag for a long, LONG while.

Track should definitely use much more mana and lag for a long' date=' LONG while.[/quote']

i don't really understand the point of track, i think tracker rangers are strong enough without this skill TBH.

I do agree here though, rangers could use a higher XP penalty.

Track should definitely use much more mana and lag for a long' date=' LONG while.[/quote'] how about as apposed to lagging them and causing them to end up dying, make it so you have to be out of combat for a certain amount of time before using it?

It wouldn't be useful at all then. If you are tracking someone, you are chasing them. If you are chasing them, lag doesn't normally get you killed, it just gives them more time to escape.

It wouldn't be useful at all then. If you are tracking someone' date=' you are chasing them. If you are chasing them, lag doesn't normally get you killed, it just gives them more time to escape.[/quote']

but if i know your a tracker and i decide to flee couldn't i theoretically run just out of the area, eat a few nymph hearts and come back and lay into you while you are sitting there lagged?

In which case why would the ranger be tracking in the first place? If someone only flees one area away and you need to use track, you just made a huge tactical mistake.

In which case why would the ranger be tracking in the first place? If someone only flees one area away and you need to use track' date=' you just made a huge tactical mistake.[/quote'] yea i suppose your right, this might not be a bad idea.

his skills do not:

1. allow him to lag

2. allow him to prevent lag

Rangers can lag by:

Pet Trip

Shield Throw

Rangers can prevent Lag by:

Using a stave of flight as any Mage/Communer.

Tryathix used to not even carry a Boat. Just fly up all the time.

Rangers can be giants, giving more bash lag protection.

Paladins are not the end all defense.

Limited weapon knowledge combined with the lack of blind fighting makes them eat a lot of damage in meele.

Rangers can also force you to stack up in saves. Or how do you suppose you prevent the effects of arrows ?

Just shoot some sleep arrows and then call Thunderstorm on their sleeping form.

Also, do not forget that Rangers have a skill named Ambush.

Rangers can lag by:

Pet Trip

Shield Throw

Rangers can prevent Lag by:

Using a stave of flight as any Mage/Communer.

Tryathix used to not even carry a Boat. Just fly up all the time.

Rangers can be giants, giving more bash lag protection.

Paladins are not the end all defense.

Limited weapon knowledge combined with the lack of blind fighting makes them eat a lot of damage in meele.

Rangers can also force you to stack up in saves. Or how do you suppose you prevent the effects of arrows ?

Just shoot some sleep arrows and then call Thunderstorm on their sleeping form.

Also, do not forget that Rangers have a skill named Ambush.

i personally hate ambush as it has gotten me into more trouble than it has helped me... but i suppose it does have its uses if you are fully prepared for what could happen during the lag time afterwards.