My feelings about PK/RP

[Celerity]

My feeling is that PK rewards much more than RP does in this MUD. I really do feel that FL is about 90% PK and 10% RP. Why?

If I PK well, I get immediate, code-guaranteed benefits for my character. Not only that, but I can get into cabals, get titles, qraces/classes, and other IMM-awarded perks. On top of that, if I PK well, almost everyone automatically says I RP well too, even with little-to-no involvement in actually actively RPing. Finally, as an added bonus, I get attention from the player community on the forums (polls, shout-outs, etc).

If I RP well, I can get into Herald (actually you don't really have to RP well to do that...). I MIGHT get noticed and get attention from the IMMs with a title or something, but that process is typically far harder for RP-dominant chars than PK-dominant chars. Same with gaining a reputation for the char on the forums. I'm also usually forced into passive roles, because my low-pk char has little ability to interact in a code-enforced way (aka my char has no power, capability for effective violence or any other char-to-char interaction outside notes/socials/etc).

We can look at player posting patterns to see how slanted the pk-rp balance is. Almost all the ideas are balances or PK improvements. When a character deletes, they post their SCORE sheet, which only shows PK achievements (condition, eq, and so on). They certainly don't post their RP interactions, applications, notes, description, and so on. Not to mention the polls..

If the IMMs would much more actively promote and give viable rewards for consistent, active RP, then we would see more people RPing more actively.

Because IMMs accept passive RP (we assume you are RPing--you don't need to actively emote, note, etc--this includes "the silent killer" or "personal reasons" for doing something--also, the chars choose their sub-cabal, it isn't based on their visible RP), most players will rise only to that passive standard.

But, with half???:confused: the IMMs themselves partly or completely inactive(¿including our one coder?), we players rely more and more on the consistent code-provided benefits to our characters (AKA PK).

When there is nothing for RP-heavy chars to do in the game except talk and write notes, of course RP will be very weak. The code itself is far more heavily weighted to provide a PK atmosphere than a RP atmosphere.

This is why MUDs incorporate things like families (giving RP chars PK power--not only PC families, but NPC and gene-systems also), IC games, player economies, non-PK skills (making food, items, altering the game environment (ex. baking, animal-handling, mining, building, and so on)), player religions, and other things to do IC that don't always involve PK.

[Valsgarde]

Magnificiently well said.

[myrek]

1. How do you define RP? That is the raging debate that needs finished before your post can even begin to be discussed. Is it what you do when you aren't killing people? Is it sitting around talking? Is it emotes? Is it healer tea parties? Is it designing a character and sticking to it no matter how inconvenient it gets?

2. Most RP is never noticed. That's the nature of the beast.

3. But you can make characters that get noticed. If you want noticed, that's what you have to do. Any one remember Karmen?

If you're playing for rewards, you are still young and idealistic. Most of us play because we're addicts.

[Nomak]

I will give you examples that RP is even more awarding:

Khranin got two different tittles and got royal.

Wyslign got two tittles and joined Tribunal after he was a bounty hunter.

Drayson as follower of One God,got a customized tittle and got Huge respect even from lightwalkers.

[myrek]

Those are good examples, Nomak. But they're top end. I think big C is referring to more mundane rewards for things other than killing. I may be putting my words in his mouth. But I think he's saying that PK is part of RP, not the other way around; and that it would be nice to find a way to reward that through the computer code/gaming system.

[Anume]

I've ALWAYS encouraged rp. I don't give out qclasses, I don't give out titles and I don't give out promotions beyond T if I think the char is lacking in its rp aspect.

I've had numerous ooc talks with certain very good pkers to get them to also build up a rp side to their chars.

On the other side good rp speeds up applications enormously, I've allowed several chars to enter the cabal I was looking over for RP reason ALONE. I've even had a Watcher ELDER who couldn't pk for ... (sorry Dey we all now you're kicking ... by now ) but who's rp was superb.

[Evangelion]

Psst. Myrek.

Celerity is a girl.

[myrek]

Dammit! I am so horrible with names!

[Icor]

I like this thread. I feel so touched by it that I'm putting it into my signature.

[Mudder]

I agree, PK is definitely more rewarding than RP. In fact, to RP and powerful character, you HAVE to PK.

I've played characters that RPed like crazy. I'm talking awesome RP. That hardly got noticed compared to my heavy PKers.

Though I have been noticed before with my mainly RP chars. You just have to be loud and obnoxious to get notice and respect.

My most successful characters are the ones that incorporate both great RP and PK. Though PK does come first, then RP. Thats just the nature of the MUD.

I would love to see it both in equal proportions. I've already begun ideas for my next character (I never stop thinking) and my next will be either Syndi or Trib and I plan on doing it RP before PK to test the waters. I'll get back with you on this. (It will be awhile though, I like my main a lot)

[myrek]

You want RP? Tired of PK? Start a Yahoo chat group. You can sit around and pretend whatever you want. Or just stay at level 9. You won't get thirsty. You won't hunger. You can't get killed. What more do you want?

The system is FOR FIGHTING. If there was no fighting, there would be no need for a fighting system of classes, equipment, and/or ranks. Are you getting exactly what you signed up for?

's advocate>

[Guest emp_newb]

I have to disagree, to a point, yes there is more instant gratification in pk, as you get that Im a badass feeling, and gear, and scare people. But noone is gonna remember by how bad you beat so and so, but people will remember something outstanding your char did.

Example. Gogrash, my syndi shaman, I killed a few big names, not a bit of recognition, even got more collections than a current T in the cabal, and I was V. The thing that got me noticed, calling Raargant a left handed elven woman, cause dwarves 3 duergar. Bottom line it comes down to personal gratification, if PK does it for you, then pk, if RP does it for you, RP. If you are one of those rare people (Deykari is the best example I can think of right now) who combines their rp power, and pk ability to create a character that geniunely improves the quality of the mud, then I put my hands together

[spiegel06]

I agree to some of your points Celerity, but I but in my experience with the game I get noticed more with Rp than Pk with most of my things. Like my thief Ranser, I only have one Pk under my belt and that was to a member of Oak which ran into my trap...

I was mostly doing Rp things and tried very hard to Pk someone with Rp reasonings behind it. I know that I did not get all my rewards because I was a great Pker it was of the Rp and sticking with it.

Also another char of mine with made the polls for monk quite a few times rarely Pk and would only do so if certain critia was met.

But I do see where you are coming from most people believe this is a game about winning and they wish to be the best of the best. We all have to play the game to our own accord and make sure we enjoy it. I for one am fine not being the best Pker but I will continue so I can improve. Just my thoughts.

[myrek]

spiegel06 makes a great point.

PK gets a character attention from the staff. BUT the rewards come from RP.

's advocate>

[HBwillie]

RP with longevity has better rewards than PK, in my opinion.

[WagesofSin]

Damn, is it just me or does Celerity have the incredible ability to identify a problem and put it into words perfectly? Her post is golden I can only concur.

[Raargant]

Quality of PK is more easily judged than quality of RP.

[myrek]

RP is also subjectively qualitative while PK is black-and-white quantitative.

[Raargant]

A restatement of what I just said, but yes.

[myrek]

I would have called it a clarification or an explanation. Sometimes people need it all spelled out.

[mya]

I personally think that the mud is more 66% PK 33% RP.

I came from a proclaimed RP mud where there was almost zero RP.

Full of OOC talk, imms doing OOC things. And player that thought that tea parties where RP.

RP is not doing things right and set in stone. Is trying to do something and failing and having to adapt just as in real life.

A small story:

I wonce player a low rank DK, that was being botherer by another player, so i told him i was a Paladin. The other guy gave me a lecture about me being a Dark Knight and that i was abandoning my role and what ever.

But he never considered that my character was lying.

Sometimes things you consider wrong are actually correct.

One of the things i love on this game is that we can bash healers parties.

Some some guys are at central commons, having a tea party and saying they are the best evil slayer on the lands, I can enter, crash their party and level them all.

One my boss told me that power is not shared it is taken (mostly by force).

I personally hate the RP behind Drayson as a Dark Knight for the One.

I think the One should be a good only deity. (I know i am wrong )

And i would if i could stop him.

But i cannot, because he is powerfull. And so he can force his RP on me.

Its hard to say to someone that his god is not helping him when he kill you constantly.

In Forsaken LAnds ( a realy dark realm) Might makes Right.

If i created a elf bard and proclaimed emperor of the lands, no one would listen to me. But if i two rounded everyone who disbelieved me, you can be sure they would accept my role play as emperor and RP accordingly.

If i made a grumbly beggar that was everyones slave, you can also belive they would RP acordingly.

[myrek]

Might makes right everywhere.

Your bard doesn't have to kill everyone to be king. He could just influence enough people that he could have everyone killed. Politics has always been an extension of violence and the threat of violence.

[The Wayward Knight]

Thank you Celerity, you have summed up my feelings for the mud as well.

Wages of Sin said it best a while back, though. "I think FL is a PK mud that 'allows' RP.'

P.S. Most of the Lightwalkers hate Drayson.

[J.Twendrist]

Heh... talk to Anume about the one...

[Mister E]

I think part of the problem is pbase size. With an average of about 20 players on at times I play there isn't always opportunity to RP much at all. Usually the more that is going on the easier it is to get involved in something. Some players are better at starting plots and some are better at moving them forward by joining in, but it takes both and we dont have enough people.

Even pk suffers from a small pbase. It makes rogues harder for sure because you cant blend in as well with 20 people as you could with 50. I also hardly ever see any imms. (maybe it is the times I play?) I think visible imms doing stuff also helps create more rp.