Ideas for giving death some meaning.

I say when you die there is a dice roll on whether you come back or not after like 20 deaths.

Next time you're about to kill me offer me the chance to hand over 2 - 4 pieces of eq to secure my life. Guess what I'll do? In fact' date=' if anyone says 'f*** off' then they really need to read help death taking note of [b']DEATH IS TO BE AVOIDED!!! My evil characters give this option to almost everyone they fight when killing for the purpose of eq. Guess what happens? They either log off or say f*** you and run away. I always end up killing them, because well, I make a point to kill them after that. However I have perhaps only seen or heard of ONE person EVER giving away eq to save their life and that was Sandbox's deleted Nexus warrior.

I was actually impressed when he did it.

EDIT: Eq doesn't rot when you use Life Insurance. People will just use it even more often.

Death already sucks. If you're not valuing death more than your eq then YOU need to take a good' date=' hard, long look at yourself. We don't need to code to enforce this. [/quote']

I am hearing this, but I am not hearing any arguments supporting this argument. Death doesn't "suck" much. At worst you'll lose a point of Constitution(which could of been a potential bad thing if cabals didnt offer an easy solution to get it back up). There is no practical ingame reason to really worry about death, save for loss of EQ.

Personal anecdote: I've had many people not want to fight me until I told them I would let them keep their EQ.

There is no practical ingame reason to really worry about death' date=' save for loss of EQ.[/quote']

Uh, sure there is. It's called ROLEPLAY.

Personal anecdote: I've had many people not want to fight me until I told them I would let them keep their EQ.

And that is called breaking roleplay... on both your parts, to be honest.

I am hearing this, but I am not hearing any arguments supporting this argument. Death doesn't "suck" much. At worst you'll lose a point of Constitution(which could of been a potential bad thing if cabals didnt offer an easy solution to get it back up). There is no practical ingame reason to really worry about death, save for loss of EQ.

Personal anecdote: I've had many people not want to fight me until I told them I would let them keep their EQ.

That sh!te should be reported to the IMMs quick, fast and in a hurry. Help death clearly states death is to be avoided - I've known of more than one person getting a nasty 'penalty' form the IMMs because they thought their eq was more important then their life.

Personally, I'd rather you had all my eq and no bragging rights of killing me rather than me keeping the eq and you being able to tell everyone:

See that smoe, I sent him to meet his Deity and he was so ugly he got sent back!!!

L-A

PS - its good fun once you're eq means more because you're almost guarenteed a full loot when I kill you - just because I'm that kind of guy If your life meant more many of my characters would sell it to you for eq...

Meh, I tend to favor the scourge side of ethos(es?). I'd let you sell me your eq for you life...then take your life anyway. But I've never been much of a business man.

Uh, sure there is. It's called ROLEPLAY.

And that is called breaking roleplay... on both your parts, to be honest.

Not necissarily. In both circumstances you can roleplay it out. Frankly, roeplay is hardly a reason for anything. Anyone can think of a RP reason to do anything in this game, from my experience.

Why does everyone want to make death harder than it is? With 1-3 rage deletions of characters a week' date=' I don't see how anyone can consider death taken well enough to require anything to be changed.[/quote']

Word.

Some people don't care about losing their items, rather than the humiliton of dying becuase of a mistake they made. Just look at Sarcon.

As Mindflayer said, the system is working fine.

And one last thing, this is a suggestion which will yet again punish even harder newer players who die a lot of times.

I don't like at all.

In both circumstances you can roleplay it out.

Expecting yourself or others to come back after a death? That's OOC knowledge. That's breaking roleplay. It's been said many times.

Frankly, roeplay is hardly a reason for anything.

If that's the case for you, then you really need to work on improving yours.

Expecting yourself or others to come back after a death? That's OOC knowledge. That's breaking roleplay. It's been said many times.

It's a regular occurance. You kill someone, they come back. You die, you come back as a ghost and run to your corpse. It is something so ever present in FL, that roleplaying it any other way just feels silly. When you die, dozens of people ask you "How did you die?". It would be much more productive for there to be an imm-created roleplay reason for this phenomenon, rather than have our characters pretend to be surprised that someone returned after death(something nobody does anyway).

Pali, have you ever roleplayed death this way? If a groupmate dies on a winter trip, do you act as if he is gone for good and don't expect them to return to finish off the baron? When you PK the leader of Nexus, do you rejoice that the battle against evil is finally over, expecting the leaderless Nexus to crumble?

I seriously doubt anyone can honestly say they roleplay death the way it should be roleplayed. I have never witnessed it other than the classic, "Oh how great, my lord has given me a second chance!".

It's a regular occurance. You kill someone, they come back. You die, you come back as a ghost and run to your corpse. It is something so ever present in FL, that roleplaying it any other way just feels silly. When you die, dozens of people ask you "How did you die?". It would be much more productive for there to be an imm-created roleplay reason for this phenomenon, rather than have our characters pretend to be surprised that someone returned after death(something nobody does anyway).

Pali, have you ever roleplayed death this way? If a groupmate dies on a winter trip, do you act as if he is gone for good and don't expect them to return to finish off the baron? When you PK the leader of Nexus, do you rejoice that the battle against evil is finally over, expecting the leaderless Nexus to crumble?

I seriously doubt anyone can honestly say they roleplay death the way it should be roleplayed. I have never witnessed it other than the classic, "Oh how great, my lord has given me a second chance!".

shakes head Handed down straight from the IMMs, what Pali said. It's Iron Clad this time, baby. Argument moot. You can do what you like, but this argument won't save you if you get caught.

Oh puh-leez. Can we be mature enough to stop pulling the wool over our eyes? If players prefer to play it a different way, then the game should be accomidated to their wishes.

Secondly, forum talk is useless. If it's not a divine mandate or in a help file, it might as well not exist.

Expecting it to happen and not being shocked that it does happen are two different things. No one should EXPECT to come back from a death, nor should they EXPECT someone else to. Yes, it's a fairly common occurrence, enough that you wouldn't be shocked by it (and I still think that recognizing that people do come back sometimes is a valid RP reason to loot as a precaution), but you should not treat it as something that is guaranteed before it happens.

I hate dying, period. Even if it's to a mob. I'm more steamed than a steamed vegetable. I'm glad I came back, but I never wanted to die in the first place.

Plus, wool over eyes = RP. Most of the time.

You have Pali, Valek and myself - all long-standing 1.0 players - telling you that the IMMs have said this is the way it is and you want to keep trying to say it ain't so. Its no skin off our nose if you're not doing it right - just don't come complaining when you get a slay or full loot (probably both...) from an IMM.

You've been well and truly warned here. Help death isn't ambigious - cut and dried death is to be avoided. You get caught and no amount of dodging due to some 'manufacturered' RP reason is going to save you.

Many (if not most things) are flexibile with RP - but there are some hard truths in FL that aren't.

L-A

Expecting it to happen and not being shocked that it does happen are two different things. No one should EXPECT to come back from a death' date=' nor should they EXPECT someone else to. Yes, it's a fairly common occurrence, enough that you wouldn't be shocked by it (and I still think that recognizing that people do come back sometimes is a valid RP reason to loot as a precaution), but you should not treat it as something that is guaranteed before it happens. I see absolutely no difference in him telling someone that he will not loot eq (IE: Not desecrate the corpse anyone?) and looting the corpse because you think he will come back. They are the exact same. If one is OOC, they are both OOC.

I see a BIG difference in him telling someone that he will not loot eq (IE: Not desecrate the corpse anyone?) and looting the corpse because you think he MIGHT come back.

That's where you got it wrong.

Uhhh, not sure which the original quote was... Pali seems to be changing the original message. I'm going to go by mudders post:

I see absolutely no difference in him telling someone that he will not loot eq (IE: Not desecrate the corpse anyone?) and looting the corpse because you think he will come back. They are the exact same. If one is OOC, they are both OOC.

They are the same. Looting as a precaution(Pali's example) is having knowledge that people may come back after death. Telling someone you won't loot if they die is knowing that people may come back after death. Of course they could not come back(ie. the player deleted) then of course you'd loot anyway.

Looting as a precaution would be preparing for one of many possible outcomes. Telling someone that you will not loot their eq when you kill them, or them being willing to fight because of it, is directly expecting the specific outcome of them coming back. You cannot EXPECT to come back. You can prepare for the possibility that someone might come back, but you cannot act as if they WILL.

Being more willing to fight because someone tells you that they won't loot your EQ is expecting to come back after the death - it shouldn't matter to you whether someone will loot you or not when it comes to willingness to fight, because you should NEVER expect to come back.

I really think we're knitpicking in a game of semantics now. Whether you expect or know that someone will return from the dead is irrellivent. You CAN expect to come back.

Just like in real life, we may say and act that we "know" something is going to happen. I expect that I will not be in a car accident today while going to work. I have driven to work 10,000 times and each of those times I arrived safely(and EXPECTED to arrive safely). The same is true for FL. You'd have to have a really thick headed character to not see that hundreds of people come back after death. Roleplaying otherwise is nearly impossible and just plain silly.

Being more willing to fight because someone tells you that they won't loot your EQ is expecting to come back after the death - it shouldn't matter to you whether someone will loot you or not when it comes to willingness to fight, because you should NEVER expect to come back.

You fail to realize FL is an interaction of YOU, the player, and your CHARACTER. It is impossible to separate the two. YOU as a player may fear death because you lose your EQ. As a character, you will just RP that you fear death, when in fact your actual motivation to avoid/commence PK is OOC(i.e. gear/rush of pk/whatever).

Ultimately, FL(and any RP game, really) is a bunch of OOC motivated behavior, justified with roleplay in an attempt to create a credible, immersive game world. But that is a completely different discussion...