Ideas for giving death some meaning.

I really don't wanna get stuck in with all of it, but I see Pali's point fully but think Wages' is more applicable for all intents and purposes.

If you're going to say that FL is a bunch of OOC motivated behavior, fine. Then accept that, OOC, the IMMs have decreed that you cannot IC expect to come back after a death, and that you cannot act as if you will be able to get your equipment back after a death. You cannot be willing to fight just because of guarantees that you won't lose eq.

If you're allowing that OOC reasons are acceptable motivation for IC behavior, then fine. That's the OOC reason - the IMMs say so, so mold your IC behavior around it.

EDIT: And the reason I support this is the same very simple example Zhokril gave me when we were discussing this very notion a short while back: that eventually this line of thinking can lead to people running to their pits to die there so they can instantly grab all their EQ after the death. I also did not make the distinction one between expecting and knowing, but expecting an event and considering that event a possibility. One supposes that the event is the likely outcome, the other does not. That's the difference.

EDIT 2: Your analogy was actually a good one, because guess what? People get in car crashes all the time too. They're still the rarer event, still the not-to-be-expected but considered possible event. You should view people coming back from the dead as car crashes - not expected, but it does happen fairly often.

Well technically I would think every death would HAVE to be a full loot. To keep to RP. If you died, even if you came back... EQ is not the first thing you'd be thinking about, if you were brought back from the dead. I think this argument here is most parallel and not contending with anyone else's opinions. Here is a classic example of sacrificing RP for playability where it's needed. I have not once run to a pit to get my crap back. I try to get away. If every death was auto full loot however that would be handled, it'd make more sense. People would not worry about anything like getting to a pit to die. However, I am one of the most vocal contender's of keeping this game as enjoyable as possible so things must be sacrificed. I italicize not for the reason of lightening up, but for the reason that some things can't be ignored when considering what's most fun. Constant reequipping is not, and thus what leads to all of that behavior.

For the record, I'm still very impressed with recent behavior in this fashion.

Good thread

I like the topic.

Equipment Loss: too similar to every graphic game out there.

Random Lives: huh? I see no point to it. Veteran players would still never con death, and new players would just do it a lot faster.

What about one of the following:

1. 100 hour stackable debuff. All deaths.

2. MUST remain a ghost for 24 hours after Player Deaths

3. Sustaining an injury, which prevents you from utilizing an equipment slot for a time. IE, shoulder broken and unable to wear shoulder items for a set period of time. All deaths.

4. Forced play on a roulette type game. After playing, trans to your shrine. That could be a lot of fun, something akin to the wheel of fate. One slot could be ressurection, one taking 2 deaths, one a debuff, one turns you into a shade/ghoul for 50 hours. lol. could be a blast and add a lot of RP to the game. My suggestions on the slots are WAGs and need a lot of work. Player Deaths.

Keep it going. We might be onto something here. Then again, stripping out the code made be too difficult to even consider.

One more thing...

Life insurance is idiotic. Always has been. One character should not get an advantage over any other of keeping their items.

When you die your opponent has 2 hours to loot what they want from the corpse. After that time everything in it is destroyed. Anyone caught giving eq back to someone they have killed or dropping it on the ground so they can recover it gets slayed first offense, banned second offense. Remove all LI.

Yes this means you loose all gear and consumables every time you die.

Hows that for giving death some meaning?

Rather than derail threads, I've decided to create a new one so that we can put all our ideas in one place.

Many seem to agree that people are more worried about losing EQ than they are lives. From what I gather(and my personal opinion as well), the reason for this is that Eq effects your powerlevel while dying doesnt.

This i can agree with, it is an epidemic issue in this game that losing EQ is worse than death. 60 lives is enough that the immediate fear of having to spend another 10 hours getting rare things that might not even be available for weeks on end outweighs the loss of one in sixty lives.

This is so much so that the ACTUAL reasons for 90% of all deletions is the loss of EQ. People dont delete because they die, they delete because they get full - looted..look down that long tunnel that is re-equipping and say **** it. This is made more intense by the oppresive nature of their "enemies" who typically do everything in their power to show the currently down trodden how much they suck by continously beating them down, stripping them time and time again.

A simple solution would add on some negative effects to death. Here are a few things that came to my mind.(DISCLAIMER: I'm just brainstorming):

1. Skill loss upon death. When you die, 1-3 random skills go down 1-3%points. Now, I know this is tough, but moderate characters would be immune to this.

This is a preposterous idea. Your going to take a situation in the game (the game itself in truth) that already sucks. When you die, your exposed, people can then set you back, take your time away, drop your power level significantly and slap your ego. Death already carries this penalty. Now your going to make it so that even when things MIGHT not have gone so bad, that people lose even more time and effort??? People who have mastered their skills spent lengthy time and effort getting those numbers up. Hell, on my current I have spent the past two weeks training. All this would do, is make the game less fun to play...it would serve no other purpose, and it would hurt EVERYONE.

1. Randomized lives removed at death. At death and at level 50, a character loses a random amount of lives instead of just one. I'll throw out a number, 1-5 lives removed per death. Moderate characters would be exempt.

this is pointless, your not removing any of the problems inherit in the system. Your only quickening the existence of characters, thus making it harder and harder for people to see reason in spending the time on their character to begin with.

1. Additionally, if we are able to fix the exp penalies to accurately represent power levels of races/classes, then we could make more powerful combos suffer increased penalties as a way of compensation. This would bring meaning to exp penalties again. As an example and using the ideas above, a very high exp penalty race/combo would suffer a 3% decrease to 3 skills while losing 5 lives when he dies. If you're gonna play powercombos, then you better work for them!

So certain classes wouldn't get played anymore, except by folks who really already know the game. Why explore that class that has a HUGE penalty on death..why even pk?? you spent all this time, just log onto your low xp pen and pk with that..at least you dont have to spend hours retraining skills everytime you get dc'ed in the middle of a fight and die.

This whole "damn the power combos" mentality is just poor taste. It is folks getting beat by a player that has mastered a particular combination. Combinations that are available to ALL players at creation. The irony of it is you will see some characters who are a certain race / class / cabal combo that totally decimate, then you see the guy next to them..SAME race / class /cabal combo, and they get destroyed.

Death in this game already comes with a huge price, you can get fully looted and be taken from the peak of power to the weakest schlub in an instant. Yeah LI is an issue, perhaps it should be removed, but dont make death carry even more consequence all you will do is..

1, promote more logging off when a tough foe is on

2, discourage newer players from even trying..why should they?

3, make the game, in general, less fun..a punishment for dieing is just a way to break people for making mistakes. An even BIGGER price for messing up..i have real life to pay for my mistakes this is a game, not a damn gauntlet of mental punishment.

4, in the end this will only make those who arent good at the game yet suffer more, and those who have a solid footing stand out even more.

Kyzarius is the new republican presidential nominee.

Can we keep the politics out of the ideas forum?

I agree, EQ is much more important than a character's life. EQ is much more important than many things, including player skill for the most part. So I'm really waiting for this equipment revision to take effect. I have very high hopes for it!

We need to make death more important than EQ without ruining things for newbies. I think what was implemented for the Warmaster cabal is a good step for this. We make death less important for people in lower ranks, and more important for people in higher ranks. At (V), you take the normal death now. At (I)-(M), you take less, and (T)+ you take more penalties. Another way to do this would be to make death dependent on your kill-death ratio. Those people who have good kill/death ratios would be penalized more (due to their experience or aggression), whereas people with poor kill/death ratios would be penalized less. This would encourage people to not pad their PK records, as it might bite them in the butt later. This could be focused on the average of the recent PK record (last ten kills/deaths) and total record (all kills/deaths), to account for changing skill and relative power situation.

As for life-insurance, I also hate it and I think I've used it only two times on my recent character. It is meant to protect the underdog but it mostly protects people who don't need it. For this, I suggest that it is either removed completely or only allowed to be used by cabal (I) and (M) ranks, to help you get on your feet. At (V)+, you can no longer use it. Another option is to only be able to use it when you are facing someone who is two or more ranks higher than you in a vendettaed cabal and is online. So (I) can use it anytime against vendettaed cabals, (V) can use it against (E), and (E)+ can never use it. A third option would be to have it only protect you from vendettaed cabal members.

Freakin' commies.

Further to Cel's idea, maybe having it only an option if there are more vendetta's opponents online than allies, and it ONLY working if killed by a vendetta'd foe? That way it would function for its intended purpose, moreso than it does now.

Dey