I'm back for round 2

[Pete]

Hey everyone,

Thank you Calron for your encouraging words and taking the time to send off that post. I was able to restore all my old FL files from backup so I decided to come back and try FL again.

Now...what to play. My last char here..Venwyl, an elf paladin was fun, but very lacking in PK targets. So, it must be an evil so I can PK at will.

Communer: No, Venwyl spoiled me with sanc, heal, etc.

Necro: No, takes too long to raise an army.

Warrior: No, too eq dependent.

Ranger: No, eq dependent and they just don't have any appeal.

Zerk: No, too eq dependent

Monk: No, too much training

Ninja/thief: No, don't want to be reliant on 'hide'

Battlemage: Maybe, I had a gnome at 50 for a while and found that it simply took too long to re-equip. Can only think of the weapon in Winter to dance and can't get that solo. Can locate and id though, still a great help for me.

DK: More eq dependent than I would like, but fast to get a basic suit going. Odds of getting any kind of malform is nil, so I'd be giving up a portion of their strength from the start. No locate or id, but extort would help with the id scrolls. Lack of sanc sucks badly. My sanc knowledge is somewhat limited and I hated using vials.

Invoker: Not sure how eq dependent they are or how fast I can come back from full loots having to charge staff. Never played one. Again, the id and locate would be a big help.

So...BMG, DK or INV? Not sure I could pull off a human BMG or INV, I'd probably go avian or drow for those, definitely human for DK.

The biggest factor I'm not sure of is total time required from full loot to being viable in PK again. The one that is the fastest is what I will play. But...which one is it?

[Raargant]

A staff takes roughly an hour to fully charge, as an invoker.

I would actually recommend ranger. It's not as equipment-dependant as you think; the pets do a lot of damage, and you get some natural skills, like ranger staff, barkskin, thunderstorm, etc., that help you out a lot. And, of course, you can make your own food, as well as have camouflage.

[Pete]

A staff takes roughly an hour to fully charge' date=' as an invoker.[/quote']

Thank you for that piece of information. Invokers are out.

I would actually recommend ranger. It's not as equipment-dependant as you think; the pets do a lot of damage' date=' and you get some natural skills, like ranger staff, barkskin, thunderstorm, etc., that help you out a lot. And, of course, you can make your own food, as well as have camouflage.[/quote']

That is a good argument for rangers. I thought they were as equipment dependent as warriors and zerks. Human or werebeast...hmm? Think ogre is out, I was decimated enough by 'mage' classes as an elf pal.

[Raargant]

Actually, ogre ranger generally decimates 'mage' classes, because of your own high damage output from dual wielding weapons (as well as ogrish brute strength), and your pets, which non-melees will find relatively difficult to block attacks from. Battlemages, of course, are the exception.

Feral and stone giants are also choices; feral rangers in particular will decimate mage classes, if you are worried about that, due to their 'fury' ability; however, they may be a bit weaker vs melees, due to their fire vulnerability.

In the end, it is your choice.

[Pieman]

Another thing you failed to mention that is worth considereing is a blademaster. Less training than a monk, lots of fun. Not too eq dependant. Just a thought.

[The Forsaken]

Yeah...I've seen blademasters rip people apart with just a polearm and a light. And by people, I mean me. And by rip apart, I mean make me cry.

[Anume]

Blademasters are training intensive (anatomies) but a lot less eq dependant at 50 once this training is done. (Badly dressed blademaster with your anatomy mastered will still hurt you A LOT.)

[Pete]

:eek: BLMS! I hate fighting them!

Maybe later I'll play one. Need to keep an eye out for good creatures to train anats on. Too much training for my first char back.

Thanks for the suggestions. I've set my rolling trig for my new ogre ranger. Description is done, just waiting for a roll.

A large down payment has been made for a hit on Raargant if this doesn't work out

[mya]

Watch out for invokers.

If you do not have the saves or the huge Hit-Dam they will fireball you and pets to ash.

The invocker staff 1 hour is more like 2 hours.

[Pali]

I've gotta agree with Mya on staff charging... usually will take around two hours to FULLY charge one. One hour will give you one with a decent enough charge that you can hold yourself though.

[Calron]

Actually, ogre ranger generally decimates 'mage' classes, because of your own high damage output from dual wielding weapons (as well as ogrish brute strength), and your pets, which non-melees will find relatively difficult to block attacks from. Battlemages, of course, are the exception.

Feral and stone giants are also choices; feral rangers in particular will decimate mage classes, if you are worried about that, due to their 'fury' ability; however, they may be a bit weaker vs melees, due to their fire vulnerability.

In the end, it is your choice.

Remember that you are speaking from the standpoint of someone who is going to be on top of things and in control. Even before the change to regen, ogres were not a very newbie friendly class. Despite their health, ogres can get two rounded pretty easy.

After the change to ogre regen, I would definitely say stone giant is a stronger choice for ranger. You lose the "vuln vs. everyone" aspect, lose a bit of hp, and keep about the same regen. Plus stone giants get some other perks that are fun. I agree on the ranger choice. They are also very good for mob killing.

[Iyorvin]

I've gotta agree with Mya on staff charging... usually will take around two hours to FULLY charge one. One hour will give you one with a decent enough charge that you can hold yourself though.

Can charge a staff to max in under one hour.

[Evangelion]

Playing a blademaster is a very good way to gain experience... at playing BLMs. They are nothing like any other class in the game, so I would advise against them if you're coming back to learn.

With the ogre tone down, all ogres should now be reserved for experienced players, as they're nowhere near as noobie friendly as they used to be.

I would suggest an elf paladin or halfling ranger. They are both good ways to learn eq, and if you manage to learn PK without condeathing, can have pretty nice power peaks. They're also both very survivable.

[Pali]

Can charge a staff to max in under one hour.

Potentially, yes, but only if every single charge you do is exactly the max you can safely do. I'd say that in general, it'll take you two to do safely. Especially if you're not a master at mana charge.

[Mindflayer]

Its very easy to master mana charge

[Roykagh]

I know I'm not directly addressing the criteria you mentioned (I will, after I've mentioned this ) and you've just played one already, but IMO take a Human or Half-elf Paladin. Being immensely survivable regardless of how they're dressed (though obviously being naked will have you at a big disadvantage like all classes), yet still EQ dependant thanks to being just as focused on melee as they are prayers means you will get a good feel for equipment.

Paladins can equip EXTREMELY fast after full loot without even coming out of ghost. Run to the golems, request mithril. You can then summon a large variety of good-aligned beings that you can request basic EQ from to cover every single other EQ slot you have, and you can get about 80% of this before coming out of ghost mode. People in-game will help you out with finding out what to summon no doubt, if you ask them.

Elf Paladin is stronger than the other two races for Paladin IMO however this comes at an 850 exp pen cost which means that once you hit rank 42, except to be prey for the big bad evil pinns that will want a piece of you. It will also take a lot longer to get to pinn. That shouldn't suggest that the other two are weaker, however - simply put, a Human is stronger and thus can use heavier weapons/armor and rely more on their melee putput as opposed to an Elf who has a lot of mana and can cure a lot. In fact, Human may help you out if you don't want to 'feel spoiled' as you so put it because with about a 600-700 mana base at pinn without EQ you soon start to realise that you can't just commune forever. If you haven't gathered yet, I loved Paladins.

Out of the three mentioned, I would take the invoker.

DK is a powerful class, but to be at their peak of strength you really do need to malform, and as many DK players will tell you, losing your malform is a ****.

BMG and Invoker are also two very powerful classes. The Invoker has a high damage output (which is wholly unreliant on your equipment, excluding manacharge/+mana eq/+spell eq) meaning being poorly equipped doesn't matter as much if you catch a weaker opponent unprepared because you will be dishing out serious pain, and fast. Melees may put the hurt on you if you're almost naked/naked.

The thing with an Invoker is mana charge. Whilst it can take a while to charge your staff to it's max power (the general consensus being 1-2 hours), what you can do is in between battles, find some non-rare staffs and charge them to full, and keep a nice stock in a locker. Then if you should be slain and have your staff looted, go grab your spare pre-charged one from the locker, re-equip and begin fully charging your new main staff. Once it's done, put your old one back in the locker. Helps a lot with re-equipping to have a fully-charged staff from the start (or even PKing against people that can't disarm you).

[Pete]

I thought all my old chars would be auto-deleted being gone for like 4 months. I managed to find my old password, so I still have access to my old chars.

I hear you about elf/human paladins. I have one of each at 50. And re-equipping was VERY fast, at least for my basic suit of rares which is what I wore 99% of the time.

Having a hard time getting back into training/leveling and with the previous advice on ogres I think I'll shelve the ogre/ranger for now.

Dusting off an evil human/cleric I was training. Training is almost done and not too far from pinn. Seems I just can't stay away from the dang communers.

This biggest problem I had at pinn was not being able to compete without great gear.

[Pali]

Communers actually have an easier time than most competing without great gear... find some basic hp gear, then find some melees who have some good saves gear you want and whittle them down.

[Aulian]

Playing a blademaster is a very good way to gain experience... at playing BLMs. They are nothing like any other class in the game, so I would advise against them if you're coming back to learn.

With the ogre tone down, all ogres should now be reserved for experienced players, as they're nowhere near as noobie friendly as they used to be.

I would suggest an elf paladin or halfling ranger. They are both good ways to learn eq, and if you manage to learn PK without condeathing, can have pretty nice power peaks. They're also both very survivable.

Lol utter CRAP. Are you serious? Ogres = exp players only? HAH!

Ogres might not regen 600 hp a tick, but they still do damn fine thank you. I wouldn't suggest an ogre as a starting char just because it would be a put off to see that damage done against you. But its still by FAR one of the more newbie happy races.

[Evangelion]

Lol utter CRAP. Are you serious? Ogres = exp players only? HAH!

Ogres might not regen 600 hp a tick, but they still do damn fine thank you. I wouldn't suggest an ogre as a starting char just because it would be a put off to see that damage done against you. But its still by FAR one of the more newbie happy races.

Have you even played an ogre, ever?

First of all, ogres never regenerated anywhere near that much. Ogres regenerated between 100 and 250 hp a tick, with 50 and 300 being pretty much the outer limits for freak accidents.

Ogres now regenerate, typically, between 40 and 140 hp a tick. Keep in mind these are guesstimates from playing an ogre since the change, but without actual logs, but on the whole, I'd say that most races regain between 20 and 80.

Ogres still take the same damage as before, their regeneration is still as easy to stop, and for these reasons, they are nowhere near as newbie friendly as they were.

Newbie friendly races include: Human, Half-Elf, Dwarf, Elf, Halfling (certain classes), and Drow

I firmly believe that the following races require decent knowledge of the game to handle with any sort of success: Ogre, Feral, Slith, Faerie

The rest of the races are in between to varying degrees.

You can argue all you want. I'm stating my opinion, as was asked. You're entitled to your own.

PS - Next time you try to argue my points, could you try to do it in a less irritatingly rude way? Have you not been cornholing enough sheep recently?

[Tantangel]

A while back I posted at the request of Malchaeius logs of Ogre Regen and then at the request of Lytholm to post another race/class regen and I'll show you what his posts held as far as information goes.

I did some quick calculations in Excel on how much you are healing:

HP Percentage Healed

1

145 9.965397924

271 8.719723183

420 10.31141869

549 8.92733564

664 7.958477509

782 8.166089965

838 3.875432526

929 6.297577855

1050 8.373702422

1134 5.813148789

1187 3.667820069

1259 4.982698962

1302 2.975778547

1389 6.020761246

96.12456747 96.05536332

The 96's at the end are the totals - close enough, the difference is due to rounding by Excel.

Got any logs of non-ogres sleeping to full health from 1hp - please post and I will calculate those percentages and we'll have something to compare to.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong - ogres will heal at the same rate (ie percentage) as all other races now? (ie 150% hp and 150% regen)

Lytholm

Assuming 826hp max for the slith thief:

HP % Healed

1

63 7.506053269

97 4.11622276

156 7.142857143

175 2.300242131

230 6.658595642

297 8.111380145

356 7.142857143

421 7.869249395

492 8.595641646

539 5.690072639

618 9.564164649

679 7.384987893

730 6.17433414

780 6.053268765

826 5.569007264

Top of 9.5% healed vs 10.3% top with your ogre. You're ogre seems to get better healing percentages as a rule - which is unsurprising due to the larger con.

Without doing a more detailed analysis it looks (to me at least) that ogres have sucessfully been reduced to healing at the same rate as all other races.

Lytholm.

This was only a small set of what had been posted in the thread, but that's what it looked like in comparison between a Slith Thief and an Ogre Ranger after the change to Ogre Regen. Slith was at 19 con because he'd lost two fighting Tribunal while the Ogre had 24 con so that's how it heals out as far as those two races go. The least amount of healing I think there was two instances with Ogre where I was awake and the rest were ticks that I was sleeping and the Slith I believe I was awake for at least one of them and the rest were sleeping.

[Celerity]

It needs to be more controlled I think. You should be sleeping for the entire time and we should probably use a human as base to compare against. Also, how about healing masteries and so forth. 50 HP on a ogre seems to be way too low for a tick regen.

It should also be the same classes. Human war vs ogre war. Human ranger vs ogre ranger, and so forth.

[KRins]

Honestly to see the full range...it should be ogre zerk vs. I can't really think of what has the lowest con + a low health class with like a human thief as the average line.

[Pali]

Highest regen vs lowest regen would be ogre zerk vs fae invoker by my knowledge.

[Tantangel]

It needs to be more controlled I think. You should be sleeping for the entire time and we should probably use a human as base to compare against. Also, how about healing masteries and so forth. 50 HP on a ogre seems to be way too low for a tick regen.

It should also be the same classes. Human war vs ogre war. Human ranger vs ogre ranger, and so forth.

Slith Thief and Ogre Ranger. Both have fast healing and only one has the ability to heal themselves more than the other with skills such as camp and herb the other is just S.O.L. I was really scared once when I noticed that I went from healing around 80 or so HP to only 15 in a tick while sleeping but realized shortly after I was drained and felt somewhat better. Ogre will get up to 103% with natural proficiency in fast healing as a Ranger and Slith Thief I think had around 90% or so fast healing proficiency, can't really recall his % for sure. A little low, sure, but a much needed tone for Ogres in general. Ogre Rangers can deal a massive amount of damage to one person at any given time it just takes patience and the likes.

I nearly two rounded one of the Savants when they were warring with Knight when I caught him off guard one day and I think he just about shat himself in the process. So I wouldn't say Ogres aren't unfriendly for newbies, just if they don't like to see a lot of damage dealt to them by prepared foes that are mages, they may not want to try that race to begin with.