I'm back for round 2

[Aulian]

Have you even played an ogre, ever?

First of all, ogres never regenerated anywhere near that much. Ogres regenerated between 100 and 250 hp a tick, with 50 and 300 being pretty much the outer limits for freak accidents.

Ogres now regenerate, typically, between 40 and 140 hp a tick. Keep in mind these are guesstimates from playing an ogre since the change, but without actual logs, but on the whole, I'd say that most races regain between 20 and 80.

Ogres still take the same damage as before, their regeneration is still as easy to stop, and for these reasons, they are nowhere near as newbie friendly as they were.

Newbie friendly races include: Human, Half-Elf, Dwarf, Elf, Halfling (certain classes), and Drow

I firmly believe that the following races require decent knowledge of the game to handle with any sort of success: Ogre, Feral, Slith, Faerie

The rest of the races are in between to varying degrees.

You can argue all you want. I'm stating my opinion, as was asked. You're entitled to your own.

PS - Next time you try to argue my points, could you try to do it in a less irritatingly rude way? Have you not been cornholing enough sheep recently?

Yeah, I played Bradah - Ogre ranger. Sleeping I could regen anywhere between 250-400hp... camped? 600 some ticks.

Not to mention the 4-5 early ogre warriors I played early in my career.

Not everyone just talks out of their arse Balinor.

[L-A]

Ogres were never for newer players - in fact, they were discouraged for new people when I first started playing due to their drawbacks.

IMHO - ogre are not now, nor were they, for newer players starting out. Once you have to throw down vs the top level players you will find out in short order that being able to murder a dozen mobs in 30 seconds without losing half your hp as an ogre means very little on the PK side of the world.

Simply put- vulnerabilities amplify you mistakes when made. In PK against a skilled opponent they WILL be using your vuln to their advantage. You die fast with a vuln to everything magic.

If you're going to go learning pick something without a massive vuln. A stone giant is a good place to start if you want to do a ranger, warrior or zerk. You have only the giant vuln to mental (which isn't easily exploitable) and a list of good points (mundance resist, natural profs, racial skills, good melee stats, giant size) that is almost as long as some people's e-penis's.

They are a great race - one that is very under utilised.

L-A

[Aulian]

IMHO - ogre are not now' date=' nor were they, for newer players starting out. Once you have to throw down vs the top level players you will [b']find out in short order that being able to murder a dozen mobs in 30 seconds without losing half your hp as an ogre means very little on the PK side of the world.

L-A

I think the newer players will find out that in the "pk side of the world" there is very little they can do anyway. Regardless of race.

[L-A]

I think the newer players will find out that in the "pk side of the world" there is very little they can do anyway. Regardless of race.

Maybe and maybe not - they are going to get a chance to do more without a glaring vuln though....

L-A

[Evangelion]

Yeah, I played Bradah - Ogre ranger. Sleeping I could regen anywhere between 250-400hp... camped? 600 some ticks.

Not to mention the 4-5 early ogre warriors I played early in my career.

Not everyone just talks out of their arse Balinor.

First of all, I'd like to see a log where you regenerated 400 hp uncamped, and I'd also like to see this 600 hp camped. Those would both be enormous outliers of what was typical ogre healing, before the changes to regeneration.

Second of all, you only countered one of my points, thus proving that you are still talking out of your ***.

[Anume]

Everyone behave. I grow tired of having to say this. Next time I'll just ban.

You heal more hp on an ogre if you are hurt more. Used to be over 400 hp a tick sleeping if you were about dead.

Ogres are a good choice for the absolute starter and for the experienced. They will be asked to go to get eq often, they are relatively viable at the low ranks; due to their massive hp they will have a chance to realize "Oh, hold on... I am getting attacked?" -> flee and run/recall/teleport; they are able to single most mobs who have the eq they need.

To be really successful at 50 as an ogre warrior/ranger you will NEED some eq knowledge (how to get the saves to survive your vuln without loosing too much hitting power, best way to learn this is to have a look at what experienced players are wearing on the same class/race combi).

[Evangelion]

I really would like to see a log of an ogre healing 400 hp in a tick.

And even if that is how it used to be, that isn't how it is anymore. The ogre change removed the only thing that countered the race's huge vuln. I know I won't be playing any ogres anytime soon.

Ogres biggest nemesis has always been battlemages and blademasters, and now they stand literally zero chance against those classes.

[Pali]

I've gotta go with L-A on this one... I don't think ogres are terribly newbie friendly. They used to be, when more of the game existed pre-50, but right now the 50 game is basically all there is unless you're a qrace applicant, and any newb playing an ogre at 50 will be slaughtered. Their large hp doesn't prevent death that much considering their large vulns... I've two rounded ogres plenty of times with an invoker, for instance.

[Raargant]

I've gotta go with L-A on this one... I don't think ogres are terribly newbie friendly. They used to be' date=' when more of the game existed pre-50, but right now the 50 game is basically all there is unless you're a qrace applicant, and any newb playing an ogre at 50 will be slaughtered. Their large hp doesn't prevent death that much considering their large vulns... I've two rounded ogres plenty of times with an invoker, for instance.[/quote']

There is no case in the game whatsoever where you two-rounded an ogre where you would not have similarly two-rounded any non-magic resistant class. None whatsoever. To do that requires three factors. One, lack of sanc. Two, lack of afflictive saves. Three, relatively low base hp. With those factors in mind, you can easily two-round, with an invoker, a non-sanced, save-less, and low-base hp human, elf, drow, or any non-magic resistant race.

[L-A]

Ogres biggest nemesis has always been battlemages and blademasters' date=' and now they stand literally zero chance against those classes.[/quote']

Bmages? Are you serious? With blades unable to magic damage they can't hit an ogre's vuln, dancing may or may not depending...

As Virigoth said - its mals that really make it hard for ogre's, not afflictive spells. Hp and pure power can be used to beat off afflictive spell users - maledictives that land easier are scary, scary things....

L-A

[Anume]

A battlemage will usually be an uphill battle for - any - warrior.

[Calron]

Bmages? Are you serious? With blades unable to magic damage they can't hit an ogre's vuln, dancing may or may not depending...

As Virigoth said - its mals that really make it hard for ogre's, not afflictive spells. Hp and pure power can be used to beat off afflictive spell users - maledictives that land easier are scary, scary things....

L-A

Actually, I've probably played as many ogres, caballed and uncaballed, as anyone else and battlemages are definitely the most difficult to fight. Blademasters are a second to that, so I'd have to agree with Bali here.

[Pali]

There is no case in the game whatsoever where you two-rounded an ogre where you would not have similarly two-rounded any non-magic resistant class. None whatsoever. To do that requires three factors. One' date=' lack of sanc. Two, lack of afflictive saves. Three, relatively low base hp. With those factors in mind, you can easily two-round, with an invoker, a non-sanced, save-less, and low-base hp human, elf, drow, or any non-magic resistant race.[/quote']

Lack of sanc is not required, nor are lack of aff saves. Ogres you have a far higher chance of having that first dispel go through, and ogres have a lower chance of actually saving vs spells overall. Those spells are more likely to hit for their full potential against an ogre than against others.

[Pete]

I have a few questions on a base set for a cleric...still pre-50, but my 50 set probably won't be that much different...

First my score: (paste didn't go well, I know)

Effects are from eq only, no spells active.

Str: 20(20)^2 || Level: 45 Sex: M Age : 48(123h) |

| Int: 20(20) || Class: cleric Ethos: neutral |

| Wis: 21(21) || Race : human Align: evil |

| Dex: 20(20)^3 || Hp : 616/616 Exp : 3536/362464 |

| Con: 20(20) || Mana : 97/919 |

\ Lck: [||||||] \/ Move : 411/411 +Hit: 12 +Dam: 19 /

/---------------/\------------------/\--------------------------\

| ARMOR || SAVES || Deity : Malchaeius |

| Slash : -156 || Spell : -2 || Faith : Discord |

| Pierce: -152 || Afflictive : -2 || Weight: 228/362 |

| Blunt : -155 || Maledictive: -27 || Items : 27/37 |

| Magic : -170 || Mental : -19 || Prac : 45 Train: 3 |

| || || Gold : 10k |

and my equip:

(Glowing) (Humming) a Translucent Combat Lantern

(Glowing) a sparkling ring

(Glowing) a sparkling ring

a black velvet cloak

a black velvet cloak

(Glowing) a double plated helm

an encased hydra stud

a Soldier's Breastplate

a pair of decorated arm bands

(Glowing) a pair of runed-black gauntlets

(Glowing) some double plated leggings

the wind boots

a Mangled Shield

(Glowing) a minor globe of invulnerability

(Humming) the chains of Avarice

a blue bracer

a blue bracer

(Humming) a blue steel warhammer called, "Wizard Whapper"

a blue steel helm and visor

(Glowing) (Humming) an animated blue orb

nothing.

At 50 I think I can upgrade to the following solo:

torso: samite gown

neck: might switch between medallions and ?? (pendants rarely in)

boots: probably jagged, boots of prot are never in

waist: not sure

face: not sure, golden mask is never in and don't know many others.

Weapons: probably an assortment of crappy maces

Any other suggestions on 'base' eq? The other thread is geared more towards melee. I need some mage/communer suggestions.

My goal is to find a decent base set I can get together in 30 mins or so.

[Pete]

Is such a low base hp normal for human clerics? My base is going to end up around 600 somewhere. I figured humans would get more than that.

[mya]

And ogre will have the same chance of getting dispelled as any of the giant races.

Ogre HP's more than compensate their extra damage by magic.

Extra % damage taken < extra Hp's.

Ogres have a huge con. A ogre owner will notice little difference on landed mals compared to a Faerie. And mal's are the most easy to cover saves.

Now mentals are a problem, but there are only two really dangerouse mental spells. Sleep and Dispel.

The Sleep any experienced play can overcome with consumables.

Dispel is a pain, because these saves are harder to get than mals.

But with the new 50 santuary item you will get to keep your sant half of your dispels.

[mya]

His cleric still has to spend his trains in HP.

[Pali]

I don't know about you, Mya, but I've played a number of both ogres and faeries, and the faeries were ALWAYS harder to drop mals on by a buttload. There's a reason shamans are the bane of ogres, but not of faeries.

[mya]

That is because you had less mal saves on your Ogre.

[Celerity]

or the faerie had mage saves and the ogre had melee saves

[Pali]

Actually, the mal saves were quite comparable. An ogre in mainly mithril vs a faerie in mostly hp gear left each with around -25 mals.

[Kyzarius]

you cant all be ignoring thw HUGE diff in wis and int between ogre and fae. Being that int and wis both contirbute to your chance to resist a mal...

[Calron]

you cant all be ignoring thw HUGE diff in wis and int between ogre and fae. Being that int and wis both contirbute to your chance to resist a mal...

Actually, neither one of those stats matter for mal saves.

[Kyzarius]

really?

Geuss chock another bit up to misinformation gathered here :eek:

[Roykagh]

Yeah, Calron is right. You can find out in the helpfiles easily enough.