Implementor Anume Posted December 30, 2007 Implementor Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 As undead you need the saves to balance your weakness. If you have them you will do fine against anything but people with average 31 holy weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aulian Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 And how do DK's get acess to average 30 Holy weapons ? Go have a wee think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Certain undead combos can do extremely well... their main qrace skill is very underutilized by a lot of players, if you ask me. Undead monks can be very vicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roykagh Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Undead Berserker is a lot of fun. Not the most powerful combo out there, but defnitely a LOT of fun when played in a particular cabal, thanks to how their qrace skill compliments haymaker/bodyslam... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangelion Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Every class in the game is the same as it was (for the most part) a year ago. The difference is that people have learned to combat them. Look at the difference between Cariousus and Martineius. Two vampires played by the same character, a year or two apart, and yet Cariousus was considered much scarier and did a lot more "rampaging" and "tearing apart the pbase" than Martineius. This could be attributed to the difference in cabal choices and play style, but I'm of the opinion that it's due to the increase in people's understanding of how to fight vampires. Same thing with blademasters. Very few blademasters cause the torment that everyone used to think they did, because people have started to learn how to play them. Even in the span of a month, such as with Wyslign. People learned how to combat his qskill, and he very nearly condied. There have been very few legitimate tone-downs in the last few years. I would be willing to bet that there have actually been a larger number of tone-ups, to classes, races, and cabals alike. Anyway, the point of this long-winded blurb is that undeads aren't weak. People just understand how to fight them. My advice to Nomak and anyone else who thinks they're weak? Pick an unexpected class and an unexpected cabal, and do something that people don't expect. They won't know how to fight you, and you'll win. Just don't make the mistake of thinking you're underpowered when the tide turns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 He caught you sleeping... Yakes. Another damage multiplier. Well it could have been worse. It could have been the Purity Cleric Ultra Turn Undead. Worse is when the Dk is undead and tries to cleave a blademaster only to get twin countered with vuln weapons into stun from full hp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tassinvegeta Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 I agree something is wrong with undeads. Draklor vs Rezian I was decked to the teeth, I think my hit/dam was like 60/60 or more and I was barely doing any dmg to him whereas he was easily able to hit me for DISMEMBERS/MUTILATES and easily stand toe toe with me while blinded and wielding only one weapon. In addition to other weaknessess I can't speak of I thought it was pretty ridiculous to continue playing him just from a pk point of view. But yeah my dk is tailored to do extremely well against most undead combos, sorry Saruk though I truly do wish you better luck with your next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aulian Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Look at the difference between Cariousus and Martineius. Two vampires played by the same character' date=' a year or two apart, and yet Cariousus was considered much scarier and did a lot more "rampaging" and "tearing apart the pbase" than Martineius. This could be attributed to the difference in cabal choices and play style, but I'm of the opinion that it's due to the increase in people's understanding of how to fight vampires.[/quote'] that comment applies only to those who didnt actually have to fight him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomak Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Undeads suck because of their hp and mana.Their hp per level is too little to cover their HUGE weakness.Considered to demons they are very weak.I had an undead shammy before and It sucks more than a human.Fire giants share almost the same vunlerability.There are as many holy weapons as fire ones..but a fire giants makes 1000+hp and undead not more than 800.Not to mention that watcher has some very nice skills to fight undeads,what about healers,crusaders,clerics and paladins.As I said I prefer to be human instead of undead if not ninja/thief.As for Rezian/Draklor log in my oppinion matey,you used the most stupid ninjitsu for undead ninja combo,I didn't saw even one undead skill.If you had doublesheath, maybe you could kill Rezian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roykagh Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 I agree something is wrong with undeads. Draklor vs Rezian I was decked to the teeth' date=' I think my hit/dam was like 60/60 or more and I was barely doing any dmg to him whereas he was easily able to hit me for DISMEMBERS/MUTILATES and easily stand toe toe with me while blinded and wielding only one weapon. In addition to other weaknessess I can't speak of I thought it was pretty ridiculous to continue playing him just from a pk point of view. But yeah my dk is tailored to do extremely well against most undead combos, sorry Saruk though I truly do wish you better luck with your next.[/quote'] But if that was the case, assuming you had exactly the same battle later, except Draklor was another race instead of Undead, what makes you think it would have gone differently? Changing your race wouldn't make you hit more frequently... As for holy spells, Undeads need massive afflictive saves to counter these. I'm not sure how turn undead checks against saves or even if it does, but I know paladin's wrath can be blocked fairly easy with good afflictive saves to doing basic caps damage (MUTILATES-MASSACRES) every cast. I even remember fighting Is...Ilis... (I can't remember his/her name, but it was Isl something?), and most of our fights went in my direction thanks to wrath overpowering him. Imagine my surprise when he wised up, decked himself with afflictive saves, I open with mounted charge... and my wrath did an injure. Injure!?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mya Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 That reminds me, doing scratch with fully charged fireball on Ogre. Now, seriously, you probably forgot to put Heroism up. Only spells i know that do Holy damage are: -Wrath -Dispel Evil -Dispel Undead (Healer) -Turn Undead's And only Good Aligned Clerics,Paladins And healers have them. Now Undead Mages get the shaft, because they cant protect themselves from weapons, and have lower HP's. Opening then up to surprise quick kills. But guess what, there is another race with the same problem... Ferals. With a lot more Fire damage spells although they also get nice racial skills. They are the Cleric/Shaman killers, because Clerics cannot make advantage of Fiery weapon effectively. And can shut them down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roykagh Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 Now, seriously, you probably forgot to put Heroism up. Heroism was up. I logged the fight, and checked exactly that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tassinvegeta Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 I'm sorry Nomak, but I really don't understand a thing you said. Shadow arts being the most stupid ninjitsu for a melee ninja? It sure worked well for Rhazhakhar. I didn't use a single undead skill? I spammed the heck out of it after my more important skills which really doesn't make a huge difference in battle. And I truly don't understand the doublesheath part. As for Roykagh if I wasn't undead I wouldn't be taking so much damage through sanc/protection, which was my whole point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celerity Posted January 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 It was the melee that killed me, not any magic. There were far too many people/cabals with very very powerful wrath, faith, divine power, you know name it weapons. Anyways, I still think undeads should be immune to 'negative' damage. Life drain shouldn't hurt me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 Anyways' date=' I still think undeads should be immune to 'negative' damage. Life drain shouldn't hurt me! [/quote'] Hell, it should heal you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roykagh Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 As for Roykagh if I wasn't undead I wouldn't be taking so much damage through sanc/protection' date=' which was my whole point.[/quote'] Sorry, I misread your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNewGuy Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Hell' date=' it should heal you.[/quote'] I'm all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudder Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Heroism was up. I logged the fight' date=' and checked exactly that.[/quote'] I don't know about Lich abilities but even with -80 afflictive and -40 svs, Sirican would still take pretty hefty damage from Paladin wrath. I think it was around a ** Dem or MANGLE Also, don't forget a clerics (Googie god) divine intervention can put the hurt on Undead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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