"That's why I kill people": A Retiree's Thoughts on Counterstrike-RP, FL, and more

[Raargant]

Hi all. I came home early today to pick up a PSU for my computer (mine died), but found that the damn UPS guy didn’t leave it here, even though I specifically left a note requesting him too. Sigh. But it gave me some free time, and so I decided to write up a (be warned) fairly lengthy, long-intended post about major failings of FL, be it structural, administrative, or player-caused, as well as reasons as to why the pbase size has remained stagnant for so long…and why, unless drastic changes are made, it can at best stay at this level.

1) “…and that is why I kill people.”

The titular head of this post. Not because I consider it to be the biggest issue (although it’s certainly a major one), but because the title is catchy, and because it is what inspired me to write this.

FL is advertised as an ‘RP enforced PK MUD’. For all practical purposes though, it isn’t. It is, or has become, a non-OOC PK MUD. There is a difference between the two. In the former, you are expected to be a character. In the latter, you just can’t be yourself. The former enriches the MUD and the experiences of everyone who interacts with them, immersing them in the MUD. The latter, at best, simply does not un-immerse.

Every so often, a person will invariably write up a post, usually inspired by silent-PK, about how RP in the MUD is dead. Just as invariably, a host of people will assail that post, and assert that “their PK is their RP,” and that “just because you can’t see the RP, doesn’t mean it isn’t there.”

Hogwash. If RP is not demonstrable, then it might as well not exist, because it brings nothing, RP-wise, to the MUD. There is a phrase I used in a previous discussion, and I am quite fond of it. Counterstrike-RP . Claiming to have RP which is not demonstrated, or demonstrated solely through PK, is like claiming that Counterstrike is a roleplaying game, in which one side roleplays terrorists, and the other side roleplays counter-terrorists. Roleplay is 'demonstrated' by shooting each other. Because that is what terrorists and counter-terrorists do.

This type of Counterstrike-RP is non-enrichening and non-immersive. There’s a simple way to tell who has a Counterstrike-RP. No matter how much ‘background story’ they claim their character has, or what their ‘life experiences’ are, at the end, everything can be summarized in this line: “And that is why I kill people.”

“I am a son of a Knight, and hate evil! And that is why I kill people.”

“I had a horrible childhood, and was tortured repeatedly, and someone killed my baby, then stole his candy, then laced my food with arsenic, which is why I joined the dark knight guild. And that is why I kill people.”

“I didn’t have a mommy, and that’s why I grew up hating the unjust world! And that’s why I kill people.”

This ‘RP’ starts, stops, and revolves around PK! There is no exploration of character development, no exploration of how that would affect a person's roleplay OUTSIDE of the PK department. I cannot speak for the current situation, but unless things have changed drastically since my resignation, this type of ‘RP’ is extremely prevalent. RP has become nothing more than the reason to PK. Now, obviously PK has to have some sort of RP behind it. But what about outside of PK? What else does this RP have to offer? For too many, the answer is ‘nothing’.

As far as I am concerned, if a character has this sort of Counterstrike-RP, then it effectively bring very little to this MUD. It brings a race, and a class, a backstory, and a litany of excuses for PK’ing. Nothing else.

A single character like Korthian, who actually set up and created something meaningful in the form of the KBS trading clan, brings more to the game than a hundred generic ogre warriors, halfling blademasters, drow clerics, etc., etc. etc., no matter how well they do in PK. And I truly wish there were more players like the person who played Korthian.

On the player-side, this Counterstrike-RP is one of the single most damaging things to the MUD, because it cheapens the ‘RP enforced’ advertisement to a gimmick, and quickly disappoints those few new players who come here, expecting RP enforced, and instead find a text-based, non-OOC game of Counterstrike, except with more than two teams. And it has driven away players who ARE genuinely interested in RP.

End of post 1.

[Raargant]

“No Friggin’ Evil Faeries!” aka, Do We Discourage RP?

“No Friggin’ Evil Faeries!” aka, Do We Discourage RP?

(Note: The following post, while directed towards administration, is not directed towards this administration in specific, but rather towards overall administrations of the MUD.)

“Do you love and support RP, especially player-led?” Ask virtually any IMM this question, past or present, and the answer will definitely be a yes. For almost all of the current IMM-staff, that answer would be a true answer as well. I’ve known almost all of them for far too long, and I’ve worked with them for a long time as well. I believe, unequivocally, that nearly all of the IMM-staff cares a tremendous deal about RP. Which makes it all the more baffling how so many of our actions and policies seem to have been designed to restrict player RP.

Clans are a prime example. The only clan which has been created in recent history has been KBS, and that only after Korthian spent what I consider to be an unreasonably huge amount of time and effort going after it. Which begs the question. Why?!

A player trying to set up a clan is a player who is trying to create something, trying to add something to the MUD. He’s a player who is, at least for the time being, giving up things such as cabal entrance, in order to pursue something which he thinks would be interesting in RP. It doesn’t take an inordinate amount of time and hard work for us to set up a clan for a player. So why has it been made so difficult for a player to get a clan?

On a personal anecdote, I myself tried to create, in the distant past, a clan, and had at least ten people who were willing to join, and with whom we were communicating regularly in notes. It took a lot of hard work, and a lot of RP to get them to that point. I applied for a clan. The IMM’s refused, on the grounds that my clan hadn’t been around long enough. This was after spending dozens and dozens of hours. Discouraged, I simply let it die. I have never, ever tried to create a clan again.

Qrace restrings are another classic example. Although getting a restring isn’t even comparable to getting a clan in terms of difficulty, it’s still a much more cumbersome process than is necessary, with applications often sitting for days, and occasionally for weeks. Why? Someone is trying to RP something different, trying to bring something fresh. So long as the RP fits within FL and their description, why don’t we just give it to them as a matter of course, instead of whether or not they ‘deserve’ it? It only takes us seconds!

The same is true of non-standard ‘custom’ combos (ie, evil bards, neutral clerics, etc.). We gimp the hell out of them, even when there is no balance reason to, assuming we even grant them. Why? Is it truly necessary? Nowadays, knowing this, the vast majority of players don’t even try to go for one. Is this truly something which improves the MUD? I’m inclined to say no.

IMM’s, in terms of administration, are approaching these things in a totally wrong way. We have assigned ourselves the wrong role, in handing out these RP-related tools. Instead of treating ourselves as gardeners, who are supposed to nurture and grow the plants in our garden, we have situated ourselves as treasury guardians, grudgingly doling out little pieces of treasure, here and there, when we feel that the player has shown they ‘want it enough’ and pass our ‘tests’.

The foremost role of the IMM’s is not to make sure players ‘earn’ the scant RP-benefits which we can give them. It is to look out for the richness, diversity, and immersiveness of the MUD. We should not judge the ‘worthiness’ of the players; we should judge whether or not something is being brought to the MUD. Our role, first and foremost, should not be that of arbiters. It should be that of gardeners. The focus should not be on the players 'worthiness'; the focus should be in making our garden flourish.

Talking about how much we care about RP doesn't mean anything. Our policies have to demonstrate it. These examples I cited are simply the more prominent ones. There are others as well.

We need to remember this.

[Raargant]

I’d Like to See Your Visa, Please: Barriers to Entry - Why FL Has Become Less and Les

I’d Like to See Your Visa, Please: Barriers to Entry - Why FL Has Become Less and Less Newbie-Friendly

Do we love newbies? Sure we do. Everyone loves newbies. Especially dark knights, but that isn’t the type of love I’m talking about. Getting new players is the life blood of any multiplayer game, especially a very old school form of play like MUD’s. I know you’re all tired of killing Balinor/Deykari, or being killed by the same people across different characters over and over again. I’m sure we all want to see our MUD live and thrive with new people. And I personally know that to every single IMP, from Viri on to Iru, getting new players has been one of our highest priorities; Viri even coded an entire new class, adventurers, just because of this! So why is it that in many ways, FL has actually become less newbie friendly as time has gone on?

One of the biggest reasons is structural; newbies need to play against newbies! The PK learning curve is, in many ways, MUCH steeper than when we first started, because everyone besides them knows nearly all there is to know about this MUD. It’s neither fun nor interesting nor educational to get steamrolled by a vet. Back when most of us started, I bet that a lot of the people you fought were newbies/semi-newbies, with the occasional steam-rolling by an old veteran. But nowadays, due to the age of the MUD, the steam-rolling has become the rule, not the exception.

Most newbies, even those who are PK-inclined, aren’t going to want to stay if they just get killed repeatedly and easily, sometimes naked. We say to them, ‘tough it out’. Why should they? It isn’t as if they need us, or can’t find better things to do with their time. Please remember this, guys: WE NEED THEM MORE THAN THEY NEED US.

In order for newbies to learn and enjoy themselves, they have to have close fights. The only way that will happen, is if they are fighting against other newbies. And the only way we can have that pool of newbies is if we retain as many newbies as we possibly can. Otherwise, it doesn’t matter how good the MUD is, or how much we vote. The pbase and the MUD will NOT grow. And you’ll be stuck playing with the same damn people for the next two years, give or take one or two.

So, hopefully, I’ve established (as if it needed to be established) the importance of newbies, and of having a large pool of newbies; the more newbies in the game, the more newbies are willing to join the gain. But this begs the question. Why are so many of our policies, intentionally or unintentionally, anti-newbie?!

Let’s look at the forum as an example. We edit out cabal skills and rare item effects and even spell affects these days. Why? To ‘keep things secret’. From who? Newbies. No one else. People, the MUD is almost a decade old now. For nearly everyone who has played here a meaningful length of time, there pretty much IS no real amount of secrets, at least where cabal powers go. The only people who are being kept in the dark are the people who need help the most: Newbies.

“But wait!” Some cry. “We keep these things secret for their own good! We keep it mysterious to keep things interesting!” Again, hogwash, I say. Celerity put it best. The MUD should be interesting because of its depth and richness, not because of a blank question mark.

Let me show you two examples of a made-up Nexus skill.

1) Vordicant’s dire call LACERATES Nithil!

2) Nexus skill happens.

The first one reveals very little about the ‘dire call’ skill; only that Nexus has a skill called dire call, and that it can do damage up to a lacerate. We don’t know the RP of it, the uses of it, the function of it, etc., etc., etc.,; in short, we only know name and damage. Now here’s the question I ask you. Which one makes the Nexus cabal more interesting? Which one engenders more excitement in the newbie? Which one is more likely to make the newbie go for a Nexus? And which one is more likely for the newbie to just end up annoyed?

The same goes for armor and weapons. Which is more interesting? Which one makes the newbie more interested in exploring and finding the armor/weapon shown? Is it the first, or the second?

1) The black flames of Soulcutter suddenly begin to rage!

Soulcutter LACERATES Goolin!

2) Something nasty happens to Goolin.

We need to do everything in our power to make newbies feel more welcome and more able to compete, especially given the lack of a pool of newbies for them to fight against. “But wait!” A different set of people now cry. “We spent years getting these secrets. Why should they get handouts?!”

Aside from the fact that you had a pool of newbies to fight against? Aside from the fact that there are more options for online gameplay than ever before, and that they has sucked away even former FL IMM’s? How about because it’s good for the MUD? Think you can sacrifice a little of the monstrously large PK advantage you hold over newbies, for the good of the MUD?

A final few will say, “If we need to pamper them this much, then they aren’t the type of player we want in this MUD. We can do without.” I don’t believe this type of person is the arbiter of what type of player is for this MUD. Especially considering this type of person usually is a Counterstrike-RP type, focused almost wholly on PK, I generally don’t think they are the type of people we want for this MUD.

We need to do everything in our power to attract, but more importantly, retain new players. If the cost is to lose a few veterans who are more interested in maintaining their own advantage than the health of the MUD, then I think the trade off is worth it. Of course, the forum information isn't the only issue; it just happened to be a prominent to me, because of PK logs. Post five will discuss some stratagems for this.

[Raargant]

(Hard-Coded) War! What Iiiiis It Good For, Absolutely Nuthin’

(Hard-Coded) War! What Iiiiis It Good For, Absolutely Nuthin’

So we’ve covered what I feel to be PK/RP issues, administrative issues, as well as newbie retention issues. To me, there’s one more major issue, which is actually extremely related to the Counterstrike-RP issue, as well as the administrative issue. Hard-coded vendettas. I hate them, hate them, hate them, hate them, hate them. They are one of the single greatest destroyers of RP, and one of CS-RP’s greatest enablers.

The administrative response to this is, “Hard-coded vendettas and the CTF system prevents people from being pansy and makes sure they fight cabal enemies.” I have two responses to this. The first is, “No, that’s our job.” With or without hard-coded vendettas, there’s nothing to prevent people from not fighting, or from just logging off. We’re the ones who are, and should be, watching our caballed members to make sure that they are acting the way they should. Code which limits and destroys RP shouldn’t be and isn’t a replacement for Immortal inaction. And my second response is, I don’t think PK needs any encouraging. People seem to be plenty encouraged about engaging in PK, thanks! It is RP that needs encouraging!

How do hard-coded vendettas destroy RP? Gods, in so many ways. To begin with, it actively encourages and rewards mindless PK. “Me Knight. You Nexus. Smash!” “You Warmaster. Me Savant. Fireball!” “You Syndicate. Me Tribunal. Arrested!”

People don’t even HAVE to RP, once they get into a cabal. Once they get into a cabal, all they have to do is PK, because not only is ‘their PK is their RP’, but they are actually REQUIRED to PK a certain enemy. Not only is hard-coded vendettas a get-out-of-jail-free card for mindless PK backed by little RP, it actually serves as a letter of marquee, officially sanctioning this sort of stupidity, because after they win, we promote them! I’m not saying that there isn’t any RP in a Nexus/Knight PK battle, I’m saying that having it be hard-coded, encourages it to be mindless. And encouraging mindless PK at cabals, supposedly one of the places where we have high standards for both RP and PK, inculcates a culture of mindless PK.

So mindless PK benefits from hard-coded vendetta. Who suffers, then? The exact opposite; people who want to start a deep, meaningful cabal RP. People who want to play cabal politics. People who want to expand the role of being caballed to more than just killing members of the enemy cabal. Malchaeius mentioned Syndicate some time ago, and Syndicate is an excellent example of how hard-coded vendettas kill RP.

From the beginning, we’ve wanted Syndicate to be more than just about bounty hunting. But how can that be, when Syndicate is always in a vendetta against Tribunal?! Want to roleplay a non-violent businessman? Sorry, can’t do it! As soon as Tribunal comes knocking, which the hard-coded vendetta forces them to, you must go defend (again because of the hard-coded vendetta), fight, and get marked wanted.

And, as a matter of fact, isn’t this exactly what happened to KBS? How much effort, how much time did those two, Korthian and Bradah, put into their clan, and then into getting into the cabal? All gone down the pisser, because hard-coded vendettas forced them into situations which they and their RP really had no intention of being in.

And how many more wonderful RP situations and possibilities are locked away because of this? Let’s say Watcher is kicking Tribunal’s *** and killing so many people that the Syndicate is getting concerned, because it’s cutting into their profits. The logical answer would be for them two to ally to beat down the brutes, because it is to both their benefit, right? Maybe the Syndicate an extort payment from the Tribunal for their assistance? BZZT! Sorry. Can’t possibly happen.

How about the Savants get beat down so badly by the Warmasters that they surrender, suing for peace? Perhaps the honorable Warmasters would accept…except, while the Savants were negotiating the terms of surrender, they were secretly rebuilding and trying to buy time to get the Nexus to join them. BZZT! Aint happening.

Hard-coded vendettas engender and propagate mindless PK, CS-style RP, kill imagination and deep RP, forms of political RP, and replace it with a weak guarantee of PK-based ‘RP’. For the love of god. Let’s kill it.

[Raargant]

This post will be for my suggestions. But first, I'd like to hear some discussion, thoughts, and suggestions of your own.

[Valsgarde]

I have a hard-on just waiting for these posts putting idiots in their place(s).

Testify, Raargant. Testify.

[Minotaur]

Finally someone who sees it my way. There is no end to the frustration when a gnome, or halfling runs over another neutral class or ANY class for that reason doesn't rollplay and its shrugged off. ALL of the CABALS rotate around killing. If you want to roleplay DO NOT join a cabal. I'm SO glad you said this, because I didn't want to be that guy, but it had to be said. Sure a cabal SHOULD be the elite of an idea, but that doesn't mean that the RP should end as soon as you join the CABAL.

I have told people hundreds of times that I get frustrated with the way things are, and peoples thirst for blood. I understand that winning a fight is exciting, and it should be. But that doesn't mean you have to steamroll everyone you don't get along with, or you hear a rumor about.

I spent a year in Iraq, and honestly there was less killing going on in Iraq than there is in this game. If this were D&D the DM would destroy half the people who play this way. But NO, this isn't real life, this isnt D&D this is the FORSAKEN LANDS!

Honestly I'm tired of re-equipping every twenty minuites. I'm tired of haveing to type where, who pk, every time i take a few steps. I'm tired of peoples, just shrug it off attitude.

People come to games like this because they are tired of the real world, they are tired of the new games out there, and they want to immerse themselves in a world that allows them to roleplay, and play out the characters their minds can draw up.

I wanted to play a psi, undead, vampire, deamon, lich etc. but i can't because i'm not an elite pker, i'm not willing to wait months for someones approval just to FIND OUT if thats really something im interested in, in the first place. New players like me get ran over by all of these classes/races because we dont know JACK about them. While the vets truck on with their guarded knowledge slaying us newbies.

I'd really like to see a change, and i hate to say it but hes right about the majority of this. If things are always this way I'd rather just find another mud. I like the way it was coded, and I like the playerbase for the most part. I just cant stand the dog eats dog mentality.

[Raargant]

Actually, Minotaur, you are one of the inspirations for this post, in terms of getting me actually to write it. I saw one of your previous posts expressing your frustration and just shook my head and thought to myself, "Hell. We're about to lose another one."

[Valsgarde]

My hard-on continues and intensifies, Raargant. <3.

[Twinblades713]

I love you. :eek:

Keep writin, you're the man.

[Goru]

This mind sound stupid but I actually dont know how to roleplay, I am tryed with a few characters and with one even got a title change and a re-string but that was ages ago, I guess I dont try is because your all elite and I just feel like a dick because 1. I ant the best speller in the world and always miss spell stuff 2. I never know what some words mean or what to say in reply to some things, But I really should start trying alot more I must say, Thats it im joining herald!

Heck I find it hard writing my own descriptions, I have never played a qclass or qrace not because I can but because I just simply dont know how to write an application, lame eh.

In two weeks there will be no nexus no knight no syndicate and about 20 or so members in herald

[Raargant]

Oh, goodness no. Truth be told, in many ways, I dislike the concept of Herald, because it's RP is very limited. Nexus, Knight, Syndicate, etc., etc., etc., have SO much more RP potential. It's just that few people use it! And part of the reason is my next post.

[Minotaur]

This mind sound stupid but I actually dont know how to roleplay, I am tryed with a few characters and with one even got a title change and a re-string but that was ages ago, I guess I dont try is because your all elite and I just feel like a dick because 1. I ant the best speller in the world and always miss spell stuff 2. I never know what some words mean or what to say in reply to some things, But I really should start trying alot more I must say, Thats it im joining herald!

Heck I find it hard writing my own descriptions, I have never played a qclass or qrace not because I can but because I just simply dont know how to write an application, lame eh.

In two weeks there will be no nexus no knight no syndicate and about 20 or so members in herald

I'd like to see more than 1, heh.

[Minotaur]

Oh' date=' goodness no. Truth be told, in many ways, I dislike the concept of Herald, because it's RP is very limited. Nexus, Knight, Syndicate, etc., etc., etc., have SO much more RP potential. It's just that few people use it! And part of the reason is my next post.[/quote']

lol i actually joined syndicate to roleplay with my minotaur: Ayramus, but i've been murdered every time i move more than five rooms in any direction, sad part is 9 times out of 10 it was for the few rare items i busted my butt for, and often before i had a chance to take them to brambus or have a chance to learn what they do.

There is nothing more frustrating to a new player than silent pk. Especially when you get steamrolled.

[Raargant]

lol i actually joined syndicate to roleplay with my minotaur: Ayramus, but i've been murdered every time i move more than five rooms in any direction, sad part is 9 times out of 10 it was for the few rare items i busted my butt for, and often before i had a chance to take them to brambus or have a chance to learn what they do.

There is nothing more frustrating to a new player than silent pk. Especially when you get steamrolled.

I fully agree.

[smallman]

RE: post #1 and #2

Hear hear.

Finally someone gives this MUD the well-meaning kick in the *** it needs. Everyone knows we've had good IMMs who work hard for the pbase, but there are some long-standing customs that I've always felt should be changed for the better.

The criticism of the game advertising itself as "RP enforced" is spot on. Silent or PK-heavy characters and gameplay has been tolerated for too long, and I know it -- and other factors, some springing from this leniency -- have contributed to the stagnation of the game. The RP enforced tag is what drew me in, years ago, and I saw it in action. After a few staff changes, however, it seems to me the pbase grew accustomed to playing without fear of reprimand. Even so, the code doesn't allow as blatant OOC communication as in other games, and that's a mercy.

- Jumping through hoops for a qrace/restring. This should be available at character creation. You say you want RP, don't you? Give people the option of entering the world at full throttle. If players get too big for their britches, have the gods strike them down or let the mob deflate their ego.

- The Adventurer class. The PK-free zone Viri said would never exist. I like it, but I don't see why it should be limited to level 30. Why not 50? The argument against this is usually that players could then find the game's secrets without being exposed to PK. I say: So what? The best areas of the game should not be kept secret, and I don't think it's the IMMs job to prevent players from exploring the world by limiting a character's level. They can't touch rares, they don't specialize, and they can't PK. They should at least be allowed to play the rest of the game with pinnacle groups.

- Class/align combos and gimping. I understand this is necessary for game balance, and I won't go into any detail at all because it's complicated, I haven't seen it from an IMM's perspective, and I should be doing something else right now anyway. But I do want to expand on something Raar alluded to: the morality of a character is defined by their actions, not their race. Policing this is a hassle, I'm sure, and seeing supposedly good characters act immorally causes endless grief and frustration. At the same time, some evil characters are under the impression that, being evil, they must be really psychotically evil. This institution hurts RP options.

I doubt these things will change at FL, but I don't think they would be as earth-shattering as some may suspect. I really like FL: its areas and story, its gameplay, its community, and have always held the hope that RP would be more strictly enforced and that PK and items would become less important.

[smallman]

I’d Like to See Your Visa' date=' Please: Barriers to Entry - Why FL Has Become Less and Less Newbie-Friendly[/b']

snip

Well. F'ing. Said.

[Raargant]

And that's post four. I'm going to take a break and work on my story now. Eh heh. Post five will come, hopefully after some discussion from other players. I'm looking at you, Celerity! I've always found the points in your posts to be very cogent.

[Valsgarde]

Hear hear.

Finally someone gives this MUD the well-meaning kick in the *** it needs.

It's not so much that, it's that when anyone else points out what Raargant has, they always get the "If you don't like it then take a hike" treatment by people that are half-way up the large intestine of the imms.

[Goru]

your a shiney weapon

[Pete]

Thank you Raargant for posting your thoughts. Being new I most identify with the 'newbie-friendliness' part though.

All the talk in the world isn't going to change a dang thing though. I quit the first time because of the disparity between equipment. FL, from a PK standpoint is driven by eq, yet all the knowledge of where the eq is is cloaked as well as what mob might have it.

Ultimately I'm finding that exploring is useless for finding knowledge of the equipment I need because the mob isn't carrying it because its rare.

I think the mud would be so much better if the concept of 'rares' was eliminated. Do any of you really think it enhances gameplay to have to spend weeks or months aquiring what you think is a proper suit for your char? In addition, it would make exploring actually worth something, and encourage it.

I'm fed up again myself. My RP is nill not because I don't want to, but because I don't see any point in RP, cabals, clans, etc, etc, until I have the knowledge of the equipment that this game demands.

And PLEASE don't tell me that IG RP will help find those answers...I"m so effing sick of rp'ing someone looking for a 'mentor' only to have all of you say IG crap like 'I'm not much of the mentoring type'.

I'm finally considering rather shady IG stuff now to find the answers I need. Either it'll work out or my chars will get fried/banned.

[Raargant]

On the topic of rares, part of the problem is that rares are only purged when the character logs on or is deleted, and so if a person simply stops playing a character, the rares it has will stay out of circulation for up to a year.

We need a system which will automatically purge the pfiles on a monthly basis, I think.

For a more systems-wide change, some time ago I actually proposed a major wholesale revamp of rares, to boost up the power (and number) of common rares to approach, although not equal, that of 'true' rares. Still, that'd take someone with a great deal of time and effort, more than I'll have at least for the immediate future.

[Aulian]

Finally someone who sees it my way. There is no end to the frustration when a gnome, or halfling runs over another neutral class or ANY class for that reason doesn't rollplay and its shrugged off. ALL of the CABALS rotate around killing. If you want to roleplay DO NOT join a cabal. I'm SO glad you said this, because I didn't want to be that guy, but it had to be said.

( more to be said after post 3-5)

This is true within an aspect. One must remember that to belong to an organisation that so STEEPLY follows its beliefs and ideals will often bring its members into conflict with those who have opposing ideals and beliefs...

Cabal's are supposed to signify the chosen of those particular beliefs. The people who are bound and willing to fight beyond all reasonable position to uphold and defend what they believe in.

However the fact that this should limit RP/PK balance to being majorly PK orientated is perhaps not being in the best interest of the mud. Especially seeing as the more 'advanced' players ussually end up in the cabals or atleast sticking with them.

However:

One must remember that it also LARGELY depends on the way that a character wants to be played. I can offer an example of two of my recent characters:

Ghadryn - Werebeast druid - I played him like the father figure of Gaia, the person you can come to to talk about problems, Im pretty sure you'd agree that he was a more RP oriented character whilst still fulfilling my PK duties in the Watchers (and I was pretty well ranked in there too.)

Dumela - Halfling ranger - I'm playing him as a tiny terror. A combatant and a soldier. Someone who will deal with the running and the problems of the cabal, but mainly wants to slay our enemies, make candle holders from their skulls and whilst stealing the family jewels making an effort to swoon your wife.

These are two completely different characters in the SAME cabal, but they are different because thats the way I want to play them. Its the way I want them to develop and behave.

I mean, I have had Brendyn (in my opinion the #1 threat to my cabal) ask me to leave him alone so he can do things, RP things AKA: propose to Elesa the other day. There is no point in being unreasonable when the opportunity for RP presents itself, even if you are not directly involved.

Whilst we can blame the institution (cabals or the mud in entirety) for our problems this singular point remains: Its the the PLAYERS whom create this world, whom offer and decide their OWN level of involvement. If any of this is to change it is up to US. You and I, the players.

On another note:

Your decisions are based on your character and your ability to make them.

My cabal immortal told me to kill a paladin the other day and I refused. I told my cabal immortal that I would not do it. (Its not right for neut to just randomly kill a paladin in my mind anyway)

I could of lost my position, the leadership, the cabal could of kicked me out, the whole thing.

But basically it comes down to YOU and YOUR convictions and decisions. How well are you BOUND to your character? How strong do you cling to your beliefs? Is it worth a moment of immortal interaction to sacrifice a character you have put hours and hours into it?

The lure of such things can often force people to do things with their characters that they shouldnt. Again its up to you to REALLY consider how these will change your characters. As a neutral you really need to have a good reason to be killing another neutral or a good or even an evil. You're neutral - you're supposed to just be chilled with everyone right?

Give it some thought.

<3 A

[Shaun]

Something that I think took away from RP, was the city-state cabals being taken away. I know they worked hard on bringing in Tribunals, but I really don't like the concept. I would rather have the Justice and the city-state cabals back. When I was in Rheydin, I could sit and RP ALL day, and people wanted to.

[Pete]

On the topic of rares, part of the problem is that rares are only purged when the character logs on or is deleted, and so if a person simply stops playing a character, the rares it has will stay out of circulation for up to a year.

We need a system which will automatically purge the pfiles on a monthly basis, I think.

For a more systems-wide change, some time ago I actually proposed a major wholesale revamp of rares, to boost up the power (and number) of common rares to approach, although not equal, that of 'true' rares. Still, that'd take someone with a great deal of time and effort, more than I'll have at least for the immediate future.

I completely understand that a major overhaul of all the equipment would be a huge project. It would be much easier to just do away with rare equipment, limited reloads and all. And then only allow a limited number of the unique pieces on a char.

I opened a poll on this basic suggestion, hopefully all you vets will give your thoughts. I really like it from a newbie perspective, but it make unbalance the game in ways I don't comprehend yet.