"That's why I kill people": A Retiree's Thoughts on Counterstrike-RP, FL, and more

[f0xx]

How the hell did one of the best threads on the forum got derailed into a Final Fantasy discussion?

[Dead Voodoo Doll]

lol

FF74EVA

[The Forsaken]

How the hell did one of the best threads on the forum got derailed into a Final Fantasy discussion?

I simply made a comparrison of FF7's 'super awesome items' to FL's 'super awesome qclass/race's' and how you have to work for some of the coolest powerful stuff. I did not mean to derail this thread, just making a point that things meant to be worked for shouldn't just be handed out for free by paying a NPC and saying 'whoop I are vampirez now!'

[Dead Voodoo Doll]

'whoop I are vampirez now!'

I said that to my wife last night and I don't think she took it too well

[Kyzarius]

I simply made a comparrison of FF7's 'super awesome items' to FL's 'super awesome qclass/race's' and how you have to work for some of the coolest powerful stuff. I did not mean to derail this thread' date=' just making a point that things meant to be worked for shouldn't just be handed out for free by paying a NPC and saying 'whoop I are vampirez now!'[/quote']

Actually it would be...roll a character mathching the req, find the quest, learn the lore needed to complete the quest, suceed in the quest, then you get a vamp..

Not just paying the npc, dont reduce my point to absurdity.

[The Forsaken]

And after one person has learned the quest? You know how strong the OOC contacts are in the group. After one knows, 5 will know before the hour is up. Then add on top of that, anytime someone rolls a ninja and gets a kill, the other guy just has to say 'Oh, I know how to make a vamp, screw this other guy here I come.' I don't see how this would increase the value of RP in FL, which is one of the Original Poster's main points.

I am not against changes. I am against changes that can be easily abused.

[Kyzarius]

So we keep it so elite that most people never experience the richest portion of our product.

[Anume]

Kyz, that statement is simply false. Qstuff is not elite. We've had some very newbieish qraces/classes in the past, some make it and eventually get better, some just disapear like with usual combis. You don't have to be a vet to get a qclass, you must show good rp.

Also, what do you get when you remove the application process? Just a usual class. We have plenty of those. A qclass is made special via the application process it requires.

[Atticus]

I had a qrace once and found out I shoulnt have wasted trains on base stats because of the change when I got the qrace. And I really sucked at the qrace, until I found out that q prof of one hundred made one skill uber. But then I gave up.

[Kyzarius]

Kyz, that statement is simply false. Qstuff is not elite. We've had some very newbieish qraces/classes in the past, some make it and eventually get better, some just disapear like with usual combis. You don't have to be a vet to get a qclass, you must show good rp.

Also, what do you get when you remove the application process? Just a usual class. We have plenty of those. A qclass is made special via the application process it requires.

Qraces and qclasses bring depth to the ordinary flow of the game. Each has unique abilities, vulns, approaches to combat, and enhancements that make them different flavors from the regular classes. They also open the door into more intense rp.

Vampires, psions, crusaders, are all unique play experiences. The application process just makes you have to spend more time getting them. I have played every one, and the app process is a frustrating nightmare that three out of five times (my own experience) requires spamming imms on the forum so your lost app can be found again.

It is an over the top lengthy requirement that discourages people from attempting them (this from feedback from other players over the years and my own experience). You never get reliable feedback, never know if your moving in the right direction, and often times just languish in frustration until you just move onto something else, or raise enoug hell throug ooc mediums that you get noticed.

When you do get approved it is a one two punch that is often a let down compared to what you had to go through to get it. Then you get thrust into a binary quest that if you fail, something you had no way to prpare for and was never mentioned during your hours and hours of waiting, you are told tough..time wasted.

Making them open season would actually let people freely explore the true artistry of fl, the real origional content lurking behind a time sjnk that is beyond what any other competing genre asks of a player.

I dont know anyone who wanted to play a vamp because they had to go throug a lengthy app process. I wanted a vamp, because they seemed so badass, rping a vamp was amazing fun, and the class was very well done when I got one, notmbecause it was a pain in the *** to get.

[f0xx]

Kyz, that statement is simply false. Qstuff is not elite. We've had some very newbieish qraces/classes in the past, some make it and eventually get better, some just disapear like with usual combis. You don't have to be a vet to get a qclass, you must show good rp.

Also, what do you get when you remove the application process? Just a usual class. We have plenty of those. A qclass is made special via the application process it requires.

I agree with Anume on both statements.

I actually think that newbies and returning players are being catered to way too much compared to older players.

[the_nightmare]

This is what Raargant posted:

The foremost role of the IMM’s is not to make sure players ‘earn’ the scant RP-benefits which we can give them. It is to look out for the richness, diversity, and immersiveness of the MUD. We should not judge the ‘worthiness’ of the players; we should judge whether or not something is being brought to the MUD. Our role, first and foremost, should not be that of arbiters. It should be that of gardeners. The focus should not be on the players 'worthiness'; the focus should be in making our garden flourish.

10000000% true.

Also I would like to see a change in the cabals, we have 50 levels that you can rank up in the game and I dont see a reason why you can't just send an application at 25-30 level and get cabaled.I think that the game gets boring for the newbies because everything is now hard coded to start at 50 - cabal warfare, active PK, active RP.For the vets getting to 50 is very fast but it still requires around 20-30 hours to get to 50 and fully train your character.What about for newbs, getting to 50 is hard pain in the ***, with nobody around to hunt with, they cannot run errands for the guildmaster because they don't know the lands well.This is not newbie friendly, not at all.Please return the old application only process with the cabals, the quests are useless anyway.

[Kyzarius]

This is what Raargant posted:

The foremost role of the IMM’s is not to make sure players ‘earn’ the scant RP-benefits which we can give them. It is to look out for the richness, diversity, and immersiveness of the MUD. We should not judge the ‘worthiness’ of the players; we should judge whether or not something is being brought to the MUD. Our role, first and foremost, should not be that of arbiters. It should be that of gardeners. The focus should not be on the players 'worthiness'; the focus should be in making our garden flourish.

10000000% true.

Exactly.

The game doesnt need gate keepers who allow access to content based on an arbitrarily applied set of rules.

[Dead Voodoo Doll]

I agree with Anume on both statements.

I actually think that newbies and returning players are being catered to way too much compared to older players.

But f0xx you've admitted to leaving the game.

And more and more will leave the game.

[the_nightmare]

Exactly.

The game doesnt need gate keepers who allow access to content based on an arbitrarily applied set of rules.

I remember Raargant before leaving the game, he sent megayeah's an invitation to join knight with his crusader at 25 level , thus kept even megayeah (that we all know how emotional he is and how easily he rages) occupied for almost two-three months playing almost non stop.This is simply an example how an Immortal action can keep a player interested and occupied for months if the Immortal doesn't behave like ' the keeper of the vault' .

[Anume]

All cabals are open from rank 30 on.

[the_nightmare]

All cabals are open from rank 30 on.

Yeah just in the help file.

[Kyzarius]

Yeah just in the help file.

Truth here.

[the_nightmare]

Picture is quite clear, nothing is gonna change guys, have fun.

[Anume]

Of the last 5 chars I allowed to apply 2 were below 50, one 42, the other 38 I think.

If you do clan quests and make your Imm aware you wish to join pre 50 (a lot of people do not as it is harder to pinn then), you shouldn't have a problem getting in pre 50 unless you do not fullfil the cabal Imm's requirements.

[the_nightmare]

Of the last 5 chars I allowed to apply 2 were below 50, one 42, the other 38 I think.

If you do clan quests and make your Imm aware you wish to join pre 50 (a lot of people do not as it is harder to pinn then), you shouldn't have a problem getting in pre 50 unless you do not fullfil the cabal Imm's requirements.

Okay what is the big deal to remove the clan quests and do it old school?

[J.Twendrist]

If anything is going to stress a newbie out, it's playing an undead. Not that they shouldn't be allowed, just that you are a pinata for the pbase and when you die, poof, dust. It attracts people to come fight just to test them out. I do think you shouldn't have to wait more than a week or so for a qrace/class application. I have seen how Drokmar was handling Crusader applications, and I believe four or five got along the same lines of RP about Repentance, Philanthropy, and a Blood Sacrifice. It makes it so much more worth it than the actual Crusie quest. If all you had to do was pass the trials... lol. So ultimately, you want the characters to be "worth more" to the player with a qrace/qclass so I can see it not being automatic, but, I think the wait time shouldn't be more than a week. Just my opinion. Having a qrace/class does give you a much more in depth experience, but half of that comes from getting approved. It encourages these characters to be more than just a pk monster, because you have to demonstrate your rp to the imms. A lot of the time such an application process breeds rp because getting that specialty character is a reward of rp.

Half the people are saying there is no reward for rp, qraces/classes are just that. One of the few even. I might even go so far as to say pk shouldn't matter for an applicant. If they have good enough rp, screw it, let em in. And anyone can rp.

[Grimulfr]

When we let people in cabals pre-50, it doesn't take long for the Prayer Forum to start lighting up with:

"THIS GUY IS OUT OF MY PK RANGE BUT HE KEEPS TAKING MY STANDARD ... THIS SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED!!!!1111"

Do people even want to be in cabals pre-50? The last 3-4 people I have allowed to apply to Watcher before 50 have written me notes saying, basically:

"Thanks, but I am not applying until I hit 50, because ranking will be impossible if I have cabal stuff to attend to."

So... yeah. Even though the option is there, half the people don't want to be in a cabal before pinnacle, the other half are furious when they have pre-pinnacled people in other cabals.

[The Forsaken]

This is what Raargant posted:

The foremost role of the IMM’s is not to make sure players ‘earn’ the scant RP-benefits which we can give them. It is to look out for the richness, diversity, and immersiveness of the MUD. We should not judge the ‘worthiness’ of the players; we should judge whether or not something is being brought to the MUD. Our role, first and foremost, should not be that of arbiters. It should be that of gardeners. The focus should not be on the players 'worthiness'; the focus should be in making our garden flourish.

10000000% true.

Just to make sure this is in context, he was referring to restrings for RP, not quest classes.

[Pali]

When we let people in cabals pre-50, it doesn't take long for the Prayer Forum to start lighting up with:

"THIS GUY IS OUT OF MY PK RANGE BUT HE KEEPS TAKING MY STANDARD ... THIS SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED!!!!1111"

Do people even want to be in cabals pre-50? The last 3-4 people I have allowed to apply to Watcher before 50 have written me notes saying, basically:

"Thanks, but I am not applying until I hit 50, because ranking will be impossible if I have cabal stuff to attend to."

So... yeah. Even though the option is there, half the people don't want to be in a cabal before pinnacle, the other half are furious when they have pre-pinnacled people in other cabals.

Seriously?

In all the years I have played here, I have never once looked at an application approval and said "Nah, not until later". That blows my mind.