"That's why I kill people": A Retiree's Thoughts on Counterstrike-RP, FL, and more

[Evangelion]

Hence, the end of Markonus for me, as well as the end of Andraxus. I had multiple people with both characters willing to create clans with me, and in the end, I just got sick of waiting.

Most of the IMMs are in college, or have already been in college. Don't you understand that you don't want the majority of your already limited free time (the part that isn't devoted to whatever semblance of a social life you can muster) to be spent sitting around waiting for the IMMs to prove your application? I had people who were Veteran/Trusted in clans, willing to leave and join me, but I didn't have a clan to draft them into, so one by one, they stagnated.

[Valsgarde]

Raargant, everything you said is exactly the group of problems that I think stop FL from being the best mud ever and restrain it to being just pretty neat.

Let it be said that in the past couple years, I have not voted once for FL, and it is because these problems not only go unaddressed - but people cry and throw around excuses (Imms included) whenever said problems are brought into the light.

Grim Reefer and I are great buds in real life, and he and I found FL at my house 5 years ago, and we started playing it together ever since then, but I have left numerous -numerous- times from FL for months, sometimes even a year+ on end, because of the problems cited by Raargant.

I vehemently agree with every last thing said by Raargant in his post(s) in this thread.

On a moderately related note:

Something that I think took away from RP' date=' was the city-state cabals being taken away. I know they worked hard on bringing in Tribunals, but I really don't like the concept. I would rather have the Justice and the city-state cabals back. When I was in Rheydin, I could sit and RP ALL day, and people wanted to.[/quote']

I remember RPing with Branor and some Knight for hours and hours on end too. Didn't have where-check every 5 seconds because there wasn't the threat of my guts getting stomped out of my nose. Was neat.

[WagesofSin]

Damn Raargant. That was beatiful. So beautiful that you inspired me to come back to FL. Let's see some change folks.

[Malchaeius]

Excellent post Raargant. It was a joy for me to read, and it has allowed me to think about several issues. Although, I do not want to stop at just talk/thought; I want to take action, but before action is taken, I want to provide a response to your words. I do not seek to specifically defend any actions or policies, but a post as well thought-out as this does deserve commenting. So here are my thoughts on a couple of things I took from your post. If it is not commented about, then I most likely agreed with it.

FL is advertised as an ‘RP enforced PK MUD’. For all practical purposes though, it isn’t. It is, or has become, a non-OOC PK MUD. There is a difference between the two. In the former, you are expected to be a character. In the latter, you just can’t be yourself. The former enriches the MUD and the experiences of everyone who interacts with them, immersing them in the MUD. The latter, at best, simply does not un-immerse.

I concur. We as a community have to step up our actions. We have to really become the character - understand the motivation, react as they would. It is sometimes difficult for us to do this, but once it is accomplished, it does enrich our little world and ultimately our own fun.

The issue that comes into play for the staff is policing these things effectively. As you know from being a staff member, we try to minimize interference in "mortal affairs" unless it is during Roleplay or during punishment. Therefore, the best polices are those that are tailored for, as you referred to it so wonderfully, nurturing. Too much 'interference' from the staff takes away from the player to player immersion of the game. That is to say, if we are constantly bringing people up to ask them about their reasons for killing someone else, we are interrupting their gameplay. Hence, a policy that requires the staff to patrol every single interaction/kill of a player - while some may consider it ideal - is impractical at best and harmful at worst. At the same time, a policy that allows and even encourages silent killers is at best detrimental. We need a middle ground. It appears the policy of only talking to people who make it a habit is not working if it is a collective mindset – to be exact, one player may get killed by three different people who exhibit the same ‘silent-killer roleplay’, and therefore we will not get the report about one person specifically making a habit of it.

But to further complicate the problem, for every Korthian which the playerbase loves for his RP, there is a polarizing figure like Martineius - who is driven to deletion by those who constantly question his roleplay.

I've been told, in game, by caballed members, that my character

was 'tweaked' and 'twinked' by the IMM's (exact wording used).

The word 'overpowered', in game, I have heard used directed

towards me more than ten times. I've been cussed at, insulted,

and believe me, I'm not referring to 'friendly' IC insults, but

the one you would punch someone for saying to you IRL.

A player who the staff reward for his roleplay with the first leadership of Tribunal (if memory serves me right) and even started planning a plot around the character. It is a very fickle thing - what is a good reason to kill someone? How can it be policed effectively? Perhaps we have not done a good job of policing it, and as an IMP, I will take the blame for that - but what is it the players want? Do you want a conversation before every attack? Do you want a conversation in between attacks? Do you want a conversation after the attack? What if you do not accept their reasons for killing you, but we do? Martineius, for example, received props for his role-play - but was also called everything from power-player, cheater, to 'IMM tweaked'. What do we make of cases such as those? Certainly we do not want mob rule, correct?

There are a plethora of cases where a player feels they have been wronged simply because things are not going the way they envision it. On the other side, there are cases where we may have been wrong in believing there was no injustice done. The pragmatic solution is to have policies that enable us to intervene when it seems that a player is constantly breaking their roleplay, or not showing any role-play at all.

I can best sum up these series of thoughts with:

"How do you (that is, the players) want us to police other players so that you feel satisfied that you are not being trash-killed; so that you feel everyone is truly role-playing?"

All in all, I would very much like to see players do as you have stated - and that is immerse themselves into their character instead of simply justifying their reasons for boosting their ego (id est, padding their Playerkill records) with on-the-spot 'Counterstrike-RP '.

Qrace restrings are another classic example. Although getting a restring isn’t even comparable to getting a clan in terms of difficulty, it’s still a much more cumbersome process than is necessary, with applications often sitting for days, and occasionally for weeks. Why? Someone is trying to RP something different, trying to bring something fresh. So long as the RP fits within FL and their description, why don’t we just give it to them as a matter of course, instead of whether or not they ‘deserve’ it? It only takes us seconds!

That is an issue of IMM presence. Most reasonable restrings are approved. It is really only a formality that you send an application. A system where restrings could be chosen at creation would only lead to unreasonable restrings - Angels, Demons, someone with a base class halfling choosing to be restrung as a giant rock monster, and so on and so forth. Applications are an extra procedure to test that reasonability. Else it would add the extra responsibility for Staff members of watching out for ridiculous restrings.

Outside of the times where a staff member or staff member(s) are absent that could approve them, I have never seen a reasonable restring rejected. Ever. Perhaps I fail to see how it hinders roleplay outside of "I am not getting what I want", but before restrings were available, there were those who roleplayed being something that they were "visually" not. I think it is along the same lines of why Virigoth removed aliases from the general public without an application being sent – the possibility for absurdity.

On a personal anecdote, I myself tried to create, in the distant past, a clan, and had at least ten people who were willing to join, and with whom we were communicating regularly in notes. It took a lot of hard work, and a lot of RP to get them to that point. I applied for a clan. The IMM’s refused, on the grounds that my clan hadn’t been around long enough. This was after spending dozens and dozens of hours. Discouraged, I simply let it die. I have never, ever tried to create a clan again.

Great point. I will definitely take that one to heart. Perhaps we will change the "been around long enough" and simply leave the part about "organization". If you can muster the players, there is no reason why you should not have the clan.

The same is true of non-standard ‘custom’ combos (ie, evil bards, neutral clerics, etc.). We gimp the hell out of them, even when there is no balance reason to, assuming we even grant them. Why? Is it truly necessary? Nowadays, knowing this, the vast majority of players don’t even try to go for one. Is this truly something which improves the MUD? I’m inclined to say no.

I am definitely a fan of non-standard 'custom' combos. Truth is, I cannot name more than 5 people off of the top of my head who have applied for them. Sure there have been posts on the forum where someone asks why we do not make a certain non-standard combinations standard, but most do not apply for it within the game. A perfect example is Samaet, Deykari's faerie berserker, who I personally approved. The only things that were removed from the character (if I remember correctly) were things that simply did not make sense due to the diminutive size of the character (A faerie haymakering a giant? eh... no). They were Roleplay gimpings that affected player-killing power. Though my observation is this: most people do not even play the standard combinations well - dwarves marrying minotaurs and having children, Fire giants having deep philosophical conversations, Werebeast rangers killing nymphs in the forests - so what is their motive behind a non-standard combination? Furthermore, why does it matter to them if they are 'gimped' in the realm of player-killing? Is the purpose of getting a non-standard combination because of the desire to roleplay? Well, we never take anything that will make them non-survivable, but we do take things that limit their playerkilling prowess. If you are looking for a non-standard combination for PK prowess, then yes - you are in it for the wrong reason. If you are looking for a non-standard combination for the sake of being unique and adding depth to the MUD, then why would being 'gimped' matter to you? In this instance, I am inclined to disagree with you.

IMM’s, in terms of administration, are approaching these things in a totally wrong way. We have assigned ourselves the wrong role, in handing out these RP-related tools. Instead of treating ourselves as gardeners, who are supposed to nurture and grow the plants in our garden, we have situated ourselves as treasury guardians, grudgingly doling out little pieces of treasure, here and there, when we feel that the player has shown they ‘want it enough’ and pass our ‘tests’.

The foremost role of the IMM’s is not to make sure players ‘earn’ the scant RP-benefits which we can give them. It is to look out for the richness, diversity, and immersive-ness of the MUD. We should not judge the ‘worthiness’ of the players; we should judge whether or not something is being brought to the MUD. Our role, first and foremost, should not be that of arbiters. It should be that of gardeners. The focus should not be on the players 'worthiness'; the focus should be in making our garden flourish.

Perhaps you are right. Sometimes we may lose sight and accidentally taken the role of keepers of the vault - and for that I am sorry. Yet the line is very difficult to distinguish. When is it 'hoarding' and when is it 'rewarding'? When is it 'stinginess' and when is it 'responsibility'? Would giving everyone everything they wanted really improve the MUD? Making it so difficult also does not improve the MUD. Yet is it so black and white? I think what we have been searching for is the elusive gray. This is something that I will be thinking about – and I agree with you that a change needs to be made.

From the administration side, there are several issues that must be addressed as well. Has anyone ever wondered why some of our most respected Implementors leave in frustration/anger/loss of interest? Or why it seems that a majority of them seem to bear some sort of grudge against the players of the very game that they spent hours building/coding for? That they spent hundreds of dollars on server fees for? Even Virigoth, who was one of the most relaxed people I ever had the pleasure of conversing with, got to a point where he did not read the player section of forums. He got tired of it. Now please dont misinterpret my intentions. I am not trying to make you feel like you are bad people. However, this position makes one feel that you are locked in a constant lose-lose situation. Take Halloween madness for example, two years ago, it was missed and players complained. This year, it was put on, and players complained. After you do this for a while, you get a feeling that players will always complain. Then you start resenting that. Then you start resenting them. Then you leave. I am someone who loves compromise, but most of the time, I get a sense that people are not unified. We do listen. We do make changes. It takes time. Though sometimes, we cannot make every change, we cannot watch everyone. We cannot because we are humans. I assure you all however, we do make the effort.

[Goru]

Well put, especially that last bit.

I think that sums it all up.

[Aulian]

I wanted to play a psi, undead, vampire, deamon, lich etc. but i can't because i'm not an elite pker, i'm not willing to wait months for someones approval just to FIND OUT if thats really something im interested in, in the first place. New players like me get ran over by all of these classes/races because we dont know JACK about them. While the vets truck on with their guarded knowledge slaying us newbies.

I would have to say that:

1. There are quite a few race/calsses you can play that do not involve the application process. Hell, I dont know how many but it must be in the 70's or higher.

There are reserved classes, something that people must strive for to attain. These are only a few and require extra effort, something more for a player for the just reward of the class.. They are more powerful in some respects to other classes, and as such the reward must be worked for.

I'd have to say that these classes actually provide a PLATFORM for RP. Some of the greatest RP's have come from characters who have been working to achieve these race/classes.

They arent handed out, they are earned.

2. The knowledge isnt guarded. We have had a Rat Queen Vampire handing out advice on what you should be doing to kill her.

We have heralds and healers and goods handing out information about anything.

Neutrals will aid where they can too..

Evils may pose a bit of resistance but earn their respect and gain the knowledge that way.

Things should NOT/NEVER be handed to you like a child screaming for a toy. It should be earned - be that through self experience or asking someone who has that experience.

[Malchaeius]

Um. Not to insult you Minotaur, because I understand your frustration, but I was snooping you the other day, and you threatened a berserker who was below level 20 with certain death because he looked at you. I believe you typed 'murder player' followed by saying "It wont be that way forever".

:confused:

Finally someone who sees it my way. There is no end to the frustration when a gnome, or halfling runs over another neutral class or ANY class for that reason doesn't rollplay and its shrugged off. ALL of the CABALS rotate around killing. If you want to roleplay DO NOT join a cabal. I'm SO glad you said this, because I didn't want to be that guy, but it had to be said. Sure a cabal SHOULD be the elite of an idea, but that doesn't mean that the RP should end as soon as you join the CABAL.

I have told people hundreds of times that I get frustrated with the way things are, and peoples thirst for blood. I understand that winning a fight is exciting, and it should be. But that doesn't mean you have to steamroll everyone you don't get along with, or you hear a rumor about.

I spent a year in Iraq, and honestly there was less killing going on in Iraq than there is in this game. If this were D&D the DM would destroy half the people who play this way. But NO, this isn't real life, this isnt D&D this is the FORSAKEN LANDS!

Honestly I'm tired of re-equipping every twenty minuites. I'm tired of haveing to type where, who pk, every time i take a few steps. I'm tired of peoples, just shrug it off attitude.

People come to games like this because they are tired of the real world, they are tired of the new games out there, and they want to immerse themselves in a world that allows them to roleplay, and play out the characters their minds can draw up.

I wanted to play a psi, undead, vampire, deamon, lich etc. but i can't because i'm not an elite pker, i'm not willing to wait months for someones approval just to FIND OUT if thats really something im interested in, in the first place. New players like me get ran over by all of these classes/races because we dont know JACK about them. While the vets truck on with their guarded knowledge slaying us newbies.

I'd really like to see a change, and i hate to say it but hes right about the majority of this. If things are always this way I'd rather just find another mud. I like the way it was coded, and I like the playerbase for the most part. I just cant stand the dog eats dog mentality.

[mya]

I think that is my fault.

Minotaur, as an evil you can pass with the you are considering me and preparing to attack, so i attacked you first. But as a Neutral is a bit more hard.

Another thing as we are on this. Virigoth once said that if someone went into his area (where) and did not say something that he would automaticaly assume that they where there for him, and he would attack them.

This is so very true. If you enter the area with someone who can PK you, you should great him or expect hostility. After all we all walk on full armor suits with weapons on hand. Not a friendly image.

[TheNewGuy]

I'd say we need to change cabal warfare also. CTF just sucks. Completely. I don't know what we could replace it with though.

[Tyorik]

I wanted to play a psi' date=' undead, vampire, deamon, lich etc. but i can't because i'm not an elite pker, i'm not willing to wait months for someones approval just to FIND OUT if thats really something im interested in, in the first place. New players like me get ran over by all of these classes/races because we dont know JACK about them. While the vets truck on with their guarded knowledge slaying us newbies.[/quote']

I've been gone for about a year or two so take my opinion for whatever it's worth, but what Minotaur said up there is something that I've had personal experience with, and that was almost 2 and a half years ago so it's certainly not NEW thing. When I played Subjucant's pre-Demon Human (Afigocrid) at level 30, I literally, no joke and no exaggeration, sat at level 30 for about 2 months. I logged on every day for atleast an hour, usually more. It's very deterring sometimes when you have experiences like that: "why should I bother? I don't have the kind of time for that." even if you know you could play the character and play it well, there's still that hesitation because it's such a grab bag. Maybe it'll take a week. Maybe it'll take 2 months. People who are strained on time just don't have the time for creativity when you have to put up with that. I know IMMs are busy. They're Human too. That's just one of the fatal flaws I notice. I haven't tried for a Qrace since then because that was so discouraging; by the time I got it, I was like "Great... Well... This is alright I guess... How much of my life did I waste? Oh, 210 hours? Oh... Sweet... "

I know there's alot of Qraces around right now so maybe it isn't like that anymore, but Psi's are a rarity, so are Crusader's and Vamps. Maybe no one's applying, or maybe apps are sitting in limbo.

I'm not trying to harp on the staff, you guys are awesome for even putting up with us douchebags and we likely don't deserve it and should be paying for your vacations in Honolulu (But since most of us are too poor to afford that, else we would be there right now, and because we need you to maintain the drug we call FL).

Let it be noted that to all prior posts to mine, I reply with,

"I concur."

[Evangelion]

The only real thing that I found in Malch's post that bothered me is this:

That is an issue of IMM presence. Most reasonable restrings are approved. It is really only a formality that you send an application. A system where restrings could be chosen at creation would only lead to unreasonable restrings - Angels' date=' Demons, someone with a base class halfling choosing to be restrung as a giant rock monster, and so on and so forth. Applications are an extra procedure to test that reasonability. Else it would add the extra responsibility for Staff members of watching out for ridiculous restrings. Outside of the times where a staff member or staff member(s) are absent that could approve them, I have never seen a reasonable restring rejected. Ever. Perhaps I fail to see how it hinders roleplay outside of "I am not getting what I want", but before restrings were available, there were those who roleplayed being something that they were "visually" not. I think it is along the same lines of why Virigoth removed aliases from the general public without an application being sent – the possibility for absurdity.[/quote']

If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times (and I'll post links to prove it, if need be). Hire more IMMs, Hire more IMMs, HIRE MORE IMMS.

Players that have been here for 6+ years, that are offering to step up to the responsibility should be given a chance. What is the harm in placing someone at level 52 for a week and giving them a chance? Nothing. Why? Because guess what. You're the only ones with shell access, and I can pretty much guarantee that anyone who has been here for that long isn't going to cause any problems (at least not intentionally).

This is just a pet peeve of mine, and I'm not trying in any way to make this personal, because I love Nick to death, and he would be the first one on my call list if I make my way back to England. However, Deykari has been here for three years (approximately). I've been here for 8 years. EIGHT years. That's longer than Virigoth, Bryntryst, and half of anyone else who everyone misses and adores from 1.0. I've also built an area for the MUD, and offered to build as many more as you can implement. And yet Deykari gets offered an IMM position before someone like myself (note: in the same boat as me, not necessarily me).

So what is my problem? We all make excuses for the IMMs when they are busy, or not around. But the real heart of the matter is that you have tons of willing candidates that should, for the most part, be given a shot. You can't keep using both sides to defend your action/inaction. Either the IMMs are working diligently and everyone is happy OR the IMMs are just at a busy point in their lives right now, but we're going to hire some more IMMs. If you want to keep players here, especially new ones who get stuck at level 15 for days or weeks, then that's the way it's got to be.

[mya]

Yes, i totaly hate CTF thing. With a Passion. And would not care about it if that did not mean me to be expeled from Cabals.

CTF should have a timer of some sort at the very least. Chasing your own flag back and forth is quite ... awfull....

An Alternative would be Cabal Quest.

For example, Knights and Nexus get the same quest at the same time:

They have to go to Winter and perform a ritual of some sort by the XYZ mob at 25 hours from now.

At the schedual hour they get a "point" for each tick ended on that room for the next 24 hours.

If they kill an enemy cabal player in the AREA (where) they get 5 points.

If they kill and enemy cabal player in the room with the mob they get 10 points.

Victory goes to the cabal who reaches 12 points.

After 24 hours if no single player has 12 points it is a Draw.

Victory rewards in the form of:

Cabal Points

Less cabal points/reward if no oposing cabal person attended the event.

Armies.

Armie warfare could also have a tweek. Areas can change owner to fast, to easy to spawn armies.

We should an alotement of 10-20 armies max per real day.

If you for some chance you win a cabal quest, you should get more armies that day. 5 ???

[Kyzarius]

I have had a trusted or elder now in every single cabal except Warmaster and Herald.

I agree 100% with the comments regarding hard-coded vendettas. Nothing is more destuctive to character development to be having a conversation and have it disrupted because you have to go kill that warmaster/knight/nexian/tribunal/watcher. Not to mention that it allows very little chance to RP with your foes other than tells.

In the current FL universe in order to be able to RP you have to have PKill skills proficent enough to fight and dig out a bit of space. Only after you have established a sense of fear from people, fear that you will just roll them over like roadkill, fear for their items (which most poeple vlaue more than their life!) do you get a chance to really RP. Only when that silent-pker assualts you only to get three rounded by your retaliation does the RP increase and opportunities present themselves.

The best thing we can do as players is ease the pain on new people as much as possible. You know who they are people I know you do...people like Ayramus who most vets can slay like nothin else do not deserve full loots, do not deserve their eq sacced. If your standing there with vlads armlets an ethereal radiance, titanium full plate and void leggings..and these things arent hard for you to obtain then leave dude his doube plated leggings! :eek:

As a veteran player (those who are called that by others or self crowned ) it is your responsibility to try nd set an example...yeah as it stands now you might have to get that bounty, and you might have to catch that criminal but at least try and think outside the box.

This mud has evolved into a Kill first RP later, we need to try and shift it back..back to a RP first, Kill as a result. Read the Rp log with Stytnlye and Jistanius...that imho is a good example of RP and PK meshing to the point that both parties came away from it with something...even Jistanius who died.

[Guest emp_newb]

RE: Minotaur.

I do apologize your having such a rough time, but your tired of typing who pk/where pk every few steps? If you talk to anyone who has been here, or similar muds, for any period of time, thost are probably the two most used commands by FAR. I hit where pk who pk aff and inventory at LEAST 3 times a tic, and thats if I am moving somewhere. If I am sitting I easily hit where pk/who pk/who/aff/inv ten 6 to ten times

[Kyzarius]

When I first started I found I was lookin in my inventory habitually..so I aliased "I" to be "where" and my surviviablitly improved 200% heh.

[Guest emp_newb]

RE: Evangelion.

This simply sounds like a case of sour grapes man. Your trying to veil your I deserve this/that post by tossing in an italisized like. If someone spends weeks telling you they deserve whatever, are you gonna feel inclined to give it to them?

I think a large part of why Dey got a coveted imm spot, is never once did Dey ever blow up and whine on forums, no flame covered deletion posts, the guy was here, win lose or draw he was here to improve the quality of this mud. And I highly doubt dey spent any time on the prayer forums asking to be an imm. The immortals more than likely decided that deykari, who has never ever been found guilty of flaming, cockwaving, or tom foolery, deserves what he has been given, and I REALLY stand by that as well.

[smallman]

A system where restrings could be chosen at creation would only lead to unreasonable restrings

[...]

Angels, Demons, someone with a base class halfling choosing to be restrung as a giant rock monster, and so on and so forth. Applications are an extra procedure to test that reasonability. Else it would add the extra responsibility for Staff members of watching out for ridiculous restrings.

I should clarify what I said earlier. I meant a qrace customization option at character creation, to be checked with the desc at level 15 as per usual. The restring option would be available to people at any time, if not only after level 30 or something. Like the 'title' command on other games. I think being able to call yourself whatever you like would be a perk of being an especially powerful and famous hero. Whether it's absurd or not is up to the character. With this sort of restring system, I think the only thing that should be policed is inappropriate or OOC content. Maybe use a days-long timer to limit abuse. And, of course, the command should be taken away from characters who abuse it repeatedly.

They were Roleplay gimpings that affected player-killing power. Though my observation is this: most people do not even play the standard combinations well - dwarves marrying minotaurs and having children' date=' Fire giants having deep philosophical conversations, Werebeast rangers killing nymphs in the forests[/quote']

It's your prerogative to judge RP, but I must disagree with you here. Player characters are exceptional beings who rise far above the norm for their race. Just because fire giants are typically idiots doesn't mean one of them can't occasionally know what they're talking about. And neither rangers nor werebeasts are held up as protectors of nature, only closer to it than others. I don't believe those examples in themselves show a lack of RP ability, only that the character doesn't play to type (and thank goodness for that).

From the administration side, there are several issues that must be addressed as well. Has anyone ever wondered why some of our most respected Implementors leave in frustration/anger/loss of interest? Or why it seems that a majority of them seem to bear some sort of grudge against the players of the very game that they spent hours building/coding for?

snip to end

Because this is the internet and many people here are immature, ungrateful snots. I don't like it either, but it comes with the territory. On the bright side, people of quality tend to stand out from the crowd.

For what it's worth, you guys have been a good crew, and I'm glad some of these self-destructive traditions are finally being thoughtfully questioned and considered. Just because things have always been a certain way doesn't mean they couldn't be better.

[Zrothum]

Can I b IMM? kkthx.

I actually did read this entire thing and Raargant pretty much took everything I've said over the past several years and said it all at once and alot prettier and nicer than I've ever conveyed.

Cheers to you.

Almost makes me want to start playing again.....hrmm....

[smallman]

Dey's an IMM? Awesome!

RE: Evangelion.

This simply sounds like a case of sour grapes man. [...]

It may sound like it, and you post a worthy argument, but I agree with his points. People who have been here for years deserve the opportunity to serve.

I applied for IMM status once, long ago, and -- over a few weeks -- offered several detailed outlines for new areas I'd been willing to do the gruntwork on. It was all ignored, and that made seeing the game's decline even more frustrating. I didn't waste my time designing another area, because I expected to be ignored again. I lost confidence in the staff, and in the application system.

I would like to see IMMs offer to promote trustworthy players who are smart and willing to work. I've been here about five years. I've never been a PK machine, though I know how it works, and I still don't know every corner of the lands. I don't believe that a (soon-filled) knowledge gap should keep passionate, literate people from helping make the place better.

And no, I don't want to be an IMM.

[Mister E]

Tons of food for thought here, thanks for that Raargant.

I would primarily love to see the eq changed a bit. I am all for rares and uniques the way they are except with more frequent purging times and a compliment of slightly better non rares.

I also think there should be more imms but from what I see this is happening at a good rate. You do not want every vet here with an imm, why? Because then you will log on to 8 imms and 8 players at any given time. You have to be careful with the ratio.

I am a strong advocate of abolishing the "secrets". Even though it took me years to find stuff out and in some ways it felt great to discover on your own I have to agree with Raargant. These days there are a lot of choices for gaming and people do not have the attention spans they used to. I figure if someone shows legitimate interest in a MUD they should (like every other game) have a place where they can gather info about races/classes/equipment/cabals etc.

Waiting times for restrings/qstuff. I think people should have to wait, but not as long as they do now. I have had two qraces and a qclass and my two qraces took 160 hours each to be accepted. My qclass was a crusader and by the time I pinned and was accepted it had been almost 200 hours. That is a LOT of time. Maybe make people wait like 50 hours and then have a higher rejection rate...I feel in my case it is almost like the imms felt obliged to give it to me since I spent 160 hours on it. I would almost rather get rejected after 50 hours and move along then hear nothing for so long and then resubmit over and over until I guilt the imms into giving it to me

As for silent pk, lack of rp, repetitiveness of cabal wars, I think these are all problems which stem from the lack of a pbase. We SERIOUSLY need to round up new players and then keep them. We dont need to make people imms to achieves this, maybe we could start a thread specificaly for this topic and brainstorm our butts off until we see an increase, or we could create some kind of group whose purpose is to find ways to increase the pbase.

In a nutshell IMO we need to fix the things that deter new players and then find ways of getting new players.

[Kyzarius]

you guys need to go around logging in characters beyond the rare limit.

I havent seen some pices of eq in over a month

[Evangelion]

RE: Evangelion.

This simply sounds like a case of sour grapes man. Your trying to veil your I deserve this/that post by tossing in an italisized like. If someone spends weeks telling you they deserve whatever, are you gonna feel inclined to give it to them?

I think a large part of why Dey got a coveted imm spot, is never once did Dey ever blow up and whine on forums, no flame covered deletion posts, the guy was here, win lose or draw he was here to improve the quality of this mud. And I highly doubt dey spent any time on the prayer forums asking to be an imm. The immortals more than likely decided that deykari, who has never ever been found guilty of flaming, cockwaving, or tom foolery, deserves what he has been given, and I REALLY stand by that as well.

My personal desire (or present lack thereof) to be an IMM really has nothing to do with this.

The fact that out of the last five characters I've played, three have sat for at least five days without a description approval (even after sending a note to the IMMs IG), goes to show that there aren't enough IMMs.

In short, I really don't care whether or not you think this is simply "sour grapes" or my unveiling a deep-seated desire to be an IMM here. I made my post, and said what I wanted to say, even the stuff about Nick. Yes, Nick is an awesome RPer, a great sport, and deserves everything he got here and more. But there is no way that every IMM can be someone who has had a faerie berserker avatar nexus with an owner only sword restrung to "Vorpalis the Tittie Tickler". It just can't be done, and I really think that there is some merit to the notion that the IMMs are too elitist in their choosing, because when 5-8 year veterans haven't been offered IMM positions, there's something wrong.

Like I said, there's no harm in giving anyone who wants to a try, because the worst you can do is fire them.

[Minotaur]

Um. Not to insult you Minotaur, because I understand your frustration, but I was snooping you the other day, and you threatened a berserker who was below level 20 with certain death because he looked at you. I believe you typed 'murder player' followed by saying "It wont be that way forever".

:confused:

there was actually alot more than that then you quoted... perhaps you may not have seen it all, but i will explain. I had interacted with the minotaur immortal and i was trying to overthrow the rule of mahn-tor and become the leader. That minotaur kept making reference that i was weak and that i should follow mahn-tor, he was the one who mocked me in my pk log, and he was constantly challenging me with his words. Any minotaur who went through that would have done the same in my eyes, it was all part of my role play, I'm really kind of sad that you didnt get to see it all.

[Malchaeius]

there was actually alot more than that then you quoted... perhaps you may not have seen it all' date=' but i will explain. I had interacted with the minotaur immortal and i was trying to overthrow the rule of mahn-tor and become the leader. That minotaur kept making reference that i was weak and that i should follow mahn-tor, he was the one who mocked me in my pk log, and he was constantly challenging me with his words. Any minotaur who went through that would have done the same in my eyes, it was all part of my role play, I'm really kind of sad that you didnt get to see it all.[/quote']

I was watching all of it, and I am certain I know what I saw. But let us not get carried away into this conversation as it is not relevant or constructive to the discussion of this thread.

As to the questions that I asked, I have not yet received any comments. We can talk and discuss, but I am personally curious as to how the playerbase believes that playerkilling motive and other such percerptions can be pragmatically policed.

[Mali]

EIGHT years. That's longer than Virigoth.

Dude, you havn't been here longer than Virigoth.

Raargant, you make some cogent points.

Malch, don't take these posts to heart. The MUD is more than one man.

The community seems to be picking up. I've had more fun on the mud lately than in a long time.

If there was one thing that could bring alot of newbies in, I'd say it was a fresh website. That takes time and patience. I know a specific person who has a little of both though (it's not me).