Mister E Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Hrm...Maybe harsher align policing. I think people stick to good/neut/evil for the most part but I think lawful/neut/chaotic are not played out properly. Just as an example: I have seen countless people break laws in town only to join the militia sometime later in their lives and eventually become Tribunal. I also attribute a lot of problems once again to pbase size. If there were more ppl to choose from when pking/rping then maybe better choices would be made. I think some people stretch their rp ultra thin to justify some IG action or grabbing that piece of eq they need from someone. I wonder if anyone has any ideas regarding something I suggested a while back which would make eq play a part but not be a reason for pk. I would love to see people with custom eq and I am trying ot think of a way it could work. Eq is wierd in the sense that we need it, want it, but often it doesnt even fit our chars descriptions or rp in terms of item names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRins Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 I'm not entirely sure how everyone will react to this, but I have a solution to ridding ourselves of mindless PK outside of getting rid of hard-coded vendettas in cabals...get rid of bounties. Yeah I said it. Syndies cannot in any way shape or form be actually "criminal masterminds" because they are all considered ruthless killers for hire. WRONG! Being semi-well versed in criminal activities (don't ask), murder is exceedingly rare compared to the various other and drastically more profitable methods of criminal gain. In my mind syndies are all about the bling-bling, but the only way for them to make a lot of cash is kill people when I cannot think of a single time when killing someone would make you enough cash to be worth the trouble. Now if a syndy or anyone else for that matter wanted to draw up a personal contract with someone else in a shadowy alley for someone's head, that would be not only more believable than a shop in a town...run by the friggin law who just lets it happen...dishing out contracts on people but it would actually require RP (think of that...amazing). Idea #2: I think we need more IMMs...not because I want to be one because I can't deal with a single person whining to me in person much less 20 whining through text that I would actually have to read instead of tuning out the noise of someone's voice. We need more IMMs to actually police the standards we hope to uphold...you want to axe CS-style PK malch? Make sure at least 1 IMM is on at all times, questionable PK goes down...pull their arses up to the great "You might get smote if you drop the wrong answer" temple in the sky and make them explain themselves...Anyone would isn't a gerbil should be able to see through a flimsy excuse for PK. Even if you don't drop the Slay bomb on them...a healthy dose of damnation or something will put the brakes on them killing randomly. Rebuttal: This will lead to a drastic increase of psychotic, uncontrolled evils roaming around killing the hell out of everything that twitches in the wind who will claim the voices in their head told them to do it or that they refuse to accept the existance of "lesser beings". Counter-Rebuttal: Pull them up...if they claim their are voices, what is the voice's name? What words did the voice use? Is their a visual hallucination associated with the voice? What triggers the voice or is it with you all the time? If they can't answer these quickly and with some depth than they are BSing you...and you know what to do. If they claim they are ethnically cleansing or whatever...they have to have a backstory for the reason why they need to exterminate entire races of people, hell even Hitler had his reasons. I mean in Bosnia the Serbs and Croats have numerous good reasons to kill each other (such as centuries of rape, murder, and generalized oppression but suddenly the oppressed are in power and fools are gonna pay.) I would claim that is 2 cents worth...but we all know my time isn't worth that much. Also Malch...if I was Minotaur and kept getting the boot to face treatment as it seems...I would damn well pick on the little guys too. The fact that he even mentioned that the other guy wouldn't be protected forever is considerably more RP than half the people running around these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangelion Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 The IMM should not have to police PK and RP every second of every day. Request that all complaints regarding PK/RP be accompanied by logs. Hire more IMMs to watch the place on a daily basis. Analogy: If you have a security system in your house, and you get robbed, do you keep your security system and call it a fluke? No. You upgrade, improve, and add three or four deadbolts to your doors. Hire more IMMs to police for cheaters and trash. Hire more IMMs to deal with description checks, restring applications, etc. Right now we've got an IMM for every cabal, plus two active IMPs and one MIA. Well, running a cabal, especially if it contains 4+ members, is a full-time job in this game. Dealing with everything else in addition to that is too much for any one person. In conclusion... hire more IMMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'tarako Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 'An idea for maybe making people roleplay more is assign a alignment code to everything. Like if a good kills a good, they get damned for it, and an exp penalty, ect. What if everything that could be killed in the game had a flag on it good, neutral, evil. and a good character has 20 good points or whatnot, a neutral 20 neutral points, ect. then as characters kill things, the points go different directions. it would make neutral characters have to work hard to stay neutral, and maybe make it so if a good character kills two good creatures they get dropped to neutral or somesuch. and of course outcasted until they either apply to the immortals, or do a quest for a good temple cleric to raise their points back up. or something like that. Idk about coding, and this is only vaguely thought out. ill post more in a few somethings. but it would help control roleplay a little. i mean that neutral that kills only evils becoming good, or a good that slays to many neutrals becoming neutral. with an atonement quest from the appropriate temple healer to take you back to where you were. could also change ethos. like for every hour your in the city unsheathed, persaym you lose a law point and move closer to chaotic. or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted January 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Thanks for the response, Malch! As far as limiting/culling out CS-RP, and as far as your question of how we can police PK/RP, I believe that ultimately, we can't, for many of the reasons you brought up. We cannot easily discourage it, simply because we can't just go around pulling up everyone who PK's someone else, with the victim feeling it was unfair. We have to look at trends, as you said. BUT. I believe there is a way for us to make CS-RP style PK less prevalent. Even if we can't negatively reduce it, we can reduce it nonetheless through positive reinforcement of the opposite. First, we should make it easier for players to explore RP opportunities, such as with clans, and assist them more with their own ideas and plots. Second, we need to remove things which actively aid and abet the mindless-PK style, such as hard-coded vendettas. Third and perhaps most important, but we should make deep, quality RP more rewarding. I believe in intelligent markets, and they apply in FL as well. People will go where the rewards/profit is. If we want to encourage RP, we have to make it 'profitable'; imagine how few people would be interested in PK, if there was little profit and was supposed to be 'fun for its own sake'! (no looting, no getting CP's, etc. etc.). We can't just leave RP to the domain of 'it's something that people should do for its own sake'. So often, many PK-focused characters ignore RP interaction/plots, major or minor, whether IMM started or mort. started. Perhaps, if certain people who participated in RP plots, large or small, began to get some credible, cool rewards that have some serious PK mojo (read: no more freaking 'tomes of infinite knowledge'), then people might realize that RP is worth their time as well. For example, if while snooping in on a Savant/Warmaster conversation, we find a brilliant debate on the merits of battle knowledge versus that of magic knowledge, that should be rewarded. If we see an neutral attack a Knight, get beaten, but the Knight spares him, that should be rewarded. And of course, when there are RP plots, player run or IMM run, the people who really throw themselves into it should receive serious, credible rewards. And, on the other side, we need to tone down rewards, be it in cabal promotions or otherwise, for PK alone, no matter how high a level it is. There is plenty of 'hard-coded' rewards for PK in the game already. It isn't really necessary to add to it. It's difficult to negatively undermine CS-RP style PK, but we can undermine it if we positively reinforce and reward deep, immersive RP'ers instead of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted January 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 PS: I took the liberty of deleting posts that really are non-pertinent to this thread. I hope you gentlemen understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wayward Knight Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 I love you Raargant. The thing that drove me away from playing for a year, and now for good, was your first point, silent pk. I would happily come back if FL were the bastion of enforced roleplay among other muds of simpletons and pk-kiddie mindsets that it's supposed to be, but it's not. If it ever becomes that, though, I'll be glad to spend what few hours of my week aren't dedicated to medical school on it. (Edit) I'd also vote for the mud if that happened, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRins Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Holy crap...it just came to me while I was eating pancakes at 4:30 in the afternoon. You know why people get insanely pissed and rage-delete or completely leave the game all together? Because in one second of error, literally hours of work are snatched away. This doesn't happen in other MMORPGs or even some other muds that have PK. Why do people kill other people with little or no reason whatsoever? Because they want the shiny thing the other person has, but can't come up with a half decent way to RP "seeking" out a reason to kill that other person. ANSWER: take out looting! I don't mean completely take out looting (which some people can already protect themselves against) but make a lot more objects owner only. I know for a fact that it isn't very difficult to make items drop as owner only. I also know that with a pretty simple formula, damage done by each party member can also be determined and the likelihood of a serious (rare, unique, not crap non-rare) drop can be altered based on performance. Now should something like a certain sword or polearm be owner only? No, because technically anyone who is strong enough could swing a certain sword. Should boots or armor be owner only? Hell yeah! Can your fire giant fit in the same boots as my human or halfling? nope. Can your fire giant even fit in the same armor as my fire giant? maybe, but most likely not as the desparity of sizes in any race is generally pretty large. Shields are more general like swords and should be lootable, belts...eh pushing it, but I'll let it slide since you can just knock another hole in a belt if it is too big. Pretty much anything that would touch your skin or hair if you thought about it should be tailored in such a manner that it cannot fit someone who isn't damn near the same size as you in just about every way. Hell, a girl shouldn't be able to wear the same steel chestplate as a guy...I hear they are pretty sensitive in that region and wouldn't go into battle already scrunched up if you follow me. Pants or leggings are much the same way...the boys have to breath right? I think that numerous armors, particularly high end gear, would have a magical component that will alter its size to its wearer, but a flipping plain chain shirt isn't gonna stretch to cover a giant if it is made for a human and a poor halfling would drown in it. Now some of you will say it takes all the danger out of PK...ummm...no? you still only have x number of lives, don't want to piss them away. As a matter of fact, I think it would make PK all the more dangerous because the issues of people getting kicked in the head while naked because they have a bounty or because they are evil and you are good who cares if they only have a loincloth on would be nipped in the bud because everyone would still have at least a small amount of armor left to them. Random Killing would tail off because while you still might get a few things, the rewards would be a lot better balanced to the risks to both involved. That and the rival you have acquired isn't likely to get pissed and delete when you full loot, sac everything you can't hold, butcher their corpse, laugh at them, and steal their mother's handbag. This would immediately deepen character interactions, foster RP...especially RP between mutual haters, and take the soul crushing aspect out of a loss while still leaving a sting to defeat. The flames may now begin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minotaur Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Holy crap...it just came to me while I was eating pancakes at 4:30 in the afternoon. You know why people get insanely pissed and rage-delete or completely leave the game all together? Because in one second of error, literally hours of work are snatched away. This doesn't happen in other MMORPGs or even some other muds that have PK. Why do people kill other people with little or no reason whatsoever? Because they want the shiny thing the other person has, but can't come up with a half decent way to RP "seeking" out a reason to kill that other person. ANSWER: take out looting! I don't mean completely take out looting (which some people can already protect themselves against) but make a lot more objects owner only. I know for a fact that it isn't very difficult to make items drop as owner only. I also know that with a pretty simple formula, damage done by each party member can also be determined and the likelihood of a serious (rare, unique, not crap non-rare) drop can be altered based on performance. Now should something like a certain sword or polearm be owner only? No, because technically anyone who is strong enough could swing a certain sword. Should boots or armor be owner only? Hell yeah! Can your fire giant fit in the same boots as my human or halfling? nope. Can your fire giant even fit in the same armor as my fire giant? maybe, but most likely not as the desparity of sizes in any race is generally pretty large. Shields are more general like swords and should be lootable, belts...eh pushing it, but I'll let it slide since you can just knock another hole in a belt if it is too big. Pretty much anything that would touch your skin or hair if you thought about it should be tailored in such a manner that it cannot fit someone who isn't damn near the same size as you in just about every way. Hell, a girl shouldn't be able to wear the same steel chestplate as a guy...I hear they are pretty sensitive in that region and wouldn't go into battle already scrunched up if you follow me. Pants or leggings are much the same way...the boys have to breath right? I think that numerous armors, particularly high end gear, would have a magical component that will alter its size to its wearer, but a flipping plain chain shirt isn't gonna stretch to cover a giant if it is made for a human and a poor halfling would drown in it. Now some of you will say it takes all the danger out of PK...ummm...no? you still only have x number of lives, don't want to piss them away. As a matter of fact, I think it would make PK all the more dangerous because the issues of people getting kicked in the head while naked because they have a bounty or because they are evil and you are good who cares if they only have a loincloth on would be nipped in the bud because everyone would still have at least a small amount of armor left to them. Random Killing would tail off because while you still might get a few things, the rewards would be a lot better balanced to the risks to both involved. That and the rival you have acquired isn't likely to get pissed and delete when you full loot, sac everything you can't hold, butcher their corpse, laugh at them, and steal their mother's handbag. This would immediately deepen character interactions, foster RP...especially RP between mutual haters, and take the soul crushing aspect out of a loss while still leaving a sting to defeat. The flames may now begin. I fully agree, this is why i wanted to delete most of the time. I finally got a set that put my saves over -50, and my hitdam at 40/40 on my warrior, and someone ran up on me when my kid was asking me a question, i died ofcourse and all that time spent was lost. That is a PHEONOMINAL set for a newb, and it took me three days to set up, to loose in a matter of seconds. not worth it. You want to know the real secret to survivability in FL? Wear crappy gear. Thats right... don't wear anything shiny and nobody will ever have a desire to kill you except for the people who actually have an rp reason. I tested this. With crappy gear i got killed 3 times while running around. With good gear i got steamrolled a whopping 17 times, each one silent pk or with a little sentance afterwards like, die syndicate sum, or thats what you get criminal. The ones who killed me with crappy gear actually roleplayed with me and i had a firm understanding of why it is they killed me and it made my character more personable to me, because i could understand not only how i percieve my character, but how others do as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 If you take away looting, you HAVE to take away rare/unique items. Else you get people who quite literally will never, ever worry about losing their super-sets (two or three pieces of eq? Huge loss there, yeah), and others who are incredibly frustrated about not having the ability to get them ever. And if you stop stuff from being limited, then all characters can run around in uber-sets, and classes will need to be reworked to compensate for this, and the entire POINT of eq (improving your character's strength through work) goes away. May as well just give everyone nearly identical sets at the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Anume Posted January 10, 2008 Implementor Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Just going to toss in a couple thoughts, unfortunately do not have the time for a full comment. 1) If you don't apply for something you won't get it. We're not good at reading minds just YET and if you don't apply for a vamp we don't know you want one. We've had a couple qclasses/races who SUCKED at pk but had good/brilliant rp. They got approved. Some of them deleted soon after, some kept with it and got good. 2) We can't punish what you do not report. A gnome you never before interacted with attacks and kills you without a word. Report it? Ask US to look into it? If you don't tell us people, we can't do anything. 3) Several of the issues that were adressed as problems in this and other threads are currently worked on. 4) Clans: I've told the last two people who applied for one to get THREE people to send support notes to Immortal (As in, hey, I want to join this clan). Neither of them managed. 5) Duration on getting a qclass/race. We've had people who got approved in 2 - 4 days. How? They did not rank to 30 silently and then suddenly start rping. They rped from the very start, they caught our attention through notes, though interaction with other mortals, through having a rp plan from level 1 on. If I see a char rp HARD from the very start I don't have to wait to actually catch them online to snoop them and then wait if they are just sitting around waiting and log off again or actually do something. 6) Hireing more staff. Have you played at all lately? Might comment more later if I have the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minotaur Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Just going to toss in a couple thoughts, unfortunately do not have the time for a full comment. 1) If you don't apply for something you won't get it. We're not good at reading minds just YET and if you don't apply for a vamp we don't know you want one. We've had a couple qclasses/races who SUCKED at pk but had good/brilliant rp. They got approved. Some of them deleted soon after, some kept with it and got good. 2) We can't punish what you do not report. A gnome you never before interacted with attacks and kills you without a word. Report it? Ask US to look into it? If you don't tell us people, we can't do anything. 3) Several of the issues that were adressed as problems in this and other threads are currently worked on. 4) Clans: I've told the last two people who applied for one to get THREE people to send support notes to Immortal (As in, hey, I want to join this clan). Neither of them managed. 5) Duration on getting a qclass/race. We've had people who got approved in 2 - 4 days. How? They did not rank to 30 silently and then suddenly start rping. They rped from the very start, they caught our attention through notes, though interaction with other mortals, through having a rp plan from level 1 on. If I see a char rp HARD from the very start I don't have to wait to actually catch them online to snoop them and then wait if they are just sitting around waiting and log off again or actually do something. 6) Hireing more staff. Have you played at all lately? Might comment more later if I have the time. 1) valid point 2) erronious argument, i have reported things like this three times now and i didnt even get a, we'll look into it. 3) which issues if you dont mind me asking? Its one thing to say yea we got this, and another thing to say im working on a,b,c,d, and in the future we can try and resolve e. 4) most people think starting a clan is a mood point, see priar statements about starting clans by other members. It may not be the reality however it is the general consensus we have heard thus far. 5) I think this depends alot on the player and the immortals but i agree with rag when he says it should not be a contest. I came to this game to play those classes in specific, only to find out that they are not available to everyone, only a select few people. They should be available at creation and punished accordingly if abused or misplayed. 6) This is a valid point in my opinion, i havent logged one once at a decent hour and saw less that 2 imms visible, who knows how many were there but not visible. I would disagree with the hire more staff idea, the staff has been more than helpful to me and im new, which means alot because i dont have a biased opinion yet. ( the only complaint i have is covered in statement (2). ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Qclasses/races ARE available to everyone, they just take work to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minotaur Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 something i forgot to say in my origional post... Want a prominent example of how this game is more concearned with pk then rp? Show me the help guide for bards... This class is so ignored and its the one with the most rp flavor. Every other non qclass has one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Twendrist Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 We are all still waiting for HB to publish one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The End Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 http://www.forsakenlands.org/forum/showthread.php?t=11163&page=12 If you would, read my post in the link above before you read this. IT only shows that nothing new has been said, only ignored. Does everyone forget this thread so quickly? I think it was a great idea that was just that, an idea. The idea was never brought to light and I think that is the main problem. Let me say this before I start, I am Dobson. Yeah, some of you know, some of you don't. My point in that? I made this name because most of you are so bitter that you wouldn't listen to people no matter how much sense they made. I proved my point because I actually got a few of you to listen when it wasn't the same ol dobby talking. Staff included when I got player backing. I love Eshaine, I love Valganti, I liked Roykagh but I have to say that I don't agree with Malchaeius OR Chayesh. This is not meant to be offensive, but it is my opinion and I don't think it should be held back. The simple fact is, the MUD is a single person. Because in the end, one person makes the decision. He has the power to, or not to. Personal issues aside, you took over the seat when Irumeru basically abandoned us. You basically did the same thing, as much as I hate to say it. You had the power too promote eshaine (or someone else) and tell her hey, I am in some RL trouble I need you to take over while I am gone. But it didn't happen, for the very reason that there are not many IMM's, power. It's not your fault, it is human nature to do so. To promote someone is too open yourself and no one likes to do that, but it's the job. You have a group that depends on you and, IMO, you failed. There have been little to no changes over the past year, hundreds of problems needing fixed have not been. Code is bugged to high heaven in places and for whatever reason, it has not been fixed. You have the right mind set, but don't follow through. That is not to say everything was bad, it wasn't! I LOVE your dedication to RP. As much as people complain about it, they can't look your way. You helped several plots to see the day of light and even more on a massive scale, when you worked with them. Myself included with Moquir and the Carnival, so I am told. I never once talked to you, though. But what is my point in all that about Malch? It is simple, that he, as well as all of us, have things to work on and that is OKAY. The Black and White attitude of the majority of the players is horrible. I think ANY player who says the bit "Toughen Up" Needs a vacation, because that is disgustingly immature. We should encourage not embarrass. Why would anyone allow that to be said on an open forum? Especially to someone who just started playing? We are supposed to be a community of friends, more than friends, family. I have known people here for the majority of my coherent life. You shouldn't discourage ANY new player no matter how much you don't agree with them. How many times does it have to be pointed out that we were all there at one time, get off your freaking high horses. Post 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The End Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 PK vs RP There is no question as too which one is rewarded more often than the other. PK is so much easier to judge than the quality of ones RP. Thus how it shifted and has settled to the point where it is now. What can be done to fix it? A complete overhaul of every single quest anything and cabals. Do I think this mud will ever get to that point, not without a coma and 6 months. Now that is not to say that it can't get there, it can, but the amount of work needed will not seem worth it but to the absolute most dedicated. The Advanced Role player Discretion Act I have had SOOOO many chars who were completely dedicated to RP that were STILL able to maintain PK prowess. I am no Elite when it comes to PK but no one can say that I am not there with RP. I can handle both, but can you? Can the majority of the player base say that they have the ability to hold their own against the best of RP's? Yes, you can. You choose not to. Everyone has seen enough of what can be done to get to the level within ONE character. You may not match, but you can compete. The people who can't? Newbies because they don't know the mechanics, but there are VERY few who can't. I have seen players who can't walk from Val to Rheydin give me a run for my money with RP. What needs to change with PK PK records need to go with all players EXCEPT Warmaster. Give mercy to EVERY single character and let that give them their PK Prowess. Let malforms eat their essence instead of soul, same for necromancers. Give death a freaking meaning other than because you can. Want to monitor PK but don't want the hassle of watching every fight? Have notes automatically sent when someone is killed VIA PK saying who won, who lost. THEN, both parties are given the option to give RP reason for the attack. Wham BAM you can tell exactly WHO killed WHO and how many times. There are no if ands or buts, it's recorded regardless of IMM interaction. There is no reason that a player should clear their PK range in a sitting. NONE. But guess what, it happens EVERY DAY. There are PK monsters that kill everyone they see regardless of reason because they want to RP it that way. Phhht. Lame excuse and lame player. There is no skill in that at all. Now don't get me wrong, I think there should be titans, but titans are wise and do not kill needlessly. People should come before games people. This is not a first person shooter, it is a community. If you see someone suited in crap, recently dead and upset. BE A HUMAN BEING, be a person who can go on to bigger and better things. Secrets, Rares and Cabals Qclass, Quests and clan locations should NOT be revealed on the Forum. This should be done IG and not openly discussed but hinted and lectured on. There is no reason why a class in the Academy can't go over the prowess of a Vampire, why should they not? It should be a part of the lesson plan, why would you not tell your students everything you know about them. Same reason for clan members etc. etc. Rares, cabal abilities and so forth should be openly discussed as it will ONLY LEAD TO A MUCH BETTER PLAYER BASE. Some people don't have to time to hunt eq, if they see you with an awesome set you should be able to tell them exactly where to get them and what it does so they know what is available. How in the hell are they supposed to know a mob has RARE OR UNIQUE equipment when it's not on the mob? Seriously, that is stupid. Either remove the rare/unique flags or let it be open knowledge. It is already hard enough to get there, no sense in doing all that work for no reason. The entire cabal system needs to change completely. All of it. The ranking system needs to go or needs to be changed drastically. As it is now, you have to play 35+ hours JUST TO GET THE CHANCE for Trusted member. That's GAME TIME, not all the time you spent in the clan, all the ooc time you spent with notes, apps, descs, blah blah blah blah blah. Come on, get over yourselves. It takes well over 120 hours to get Leader. If you are the one of 2 in the cabal and you are doing well, promo. Possible Leader. There should ALWAYS be a leader of a cabal if there are more than 3 members. There is no reason not to. IMM's need to stop treating the cabals as their own little toys and see them for what they are, goals for people to work for. If they get maimed as an I because they are new, they have shown dedication and should be rewarded for it. Not meant to stay low and continue to get it handed to them. Also, get rid of CTF, have armies extended to a more useful position. Have it more than just sit and wait. Okay, I think that is enough. No, I don't play anymore, and I won't be playing any time soon. I have found a better game and I see no reason to come back here. Bluntly but plainly. I do however, still consider you ALL to be friends which is why I am giving you this advice. I want you to keep going, I want this place to be what I had back when I started. You can listen, or you can disregard. The choice is yours. I hope this didn't offend anyone too much, but it needed to be said and I have no reason not to say it. Post 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinblades713 Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Some suggestions. How about a pk switch? Imms implement this and you can only pk if you have your pk switch turned on. This is monitored by the imms. If you start silently killing everyone, you get to join the Heralds. And only when you've pulled your head out of your *** can you pk, again monitored by the imms. I would tend to suggest people start with it on. Perhaps hire an imm with the sole purpose of this. Invisible all the time. We don't need people complaining about why they got switched or what. The other suggestion that may or may not go with #1 is a style of rp points. Each person has a number of points, or some system of points of rp. Maybe the player can only pk once reaching a certain amount of rp points. Or, since it's obvious most in FL like to pk anyway, and some reward for rp to complement pk. Like Instead of cabal points for buying LI, make it rp points. Make certain things accessible through rp points that nothing else is. This in no way nullifies pk as you will have you're titans in pk, but if they're that good in pk, it should reflect their prowess with rp. Meaning, you know that Nexus Leader that slaughters everybody is actually rping, or he wouldn't be doing so well. Just throwing ideas into the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mali Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 There sure is alot of negativity in this thread. I'm just happy the mud is still up and running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRins Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 If you take away looting, you HAVE to take away rare/unique items. Else you get people who quite literally will never, ever worry about losing their super-sets (two or three pieces of eq? Huge loss there, yeah), and others who are incredibly frustrated about not having the ability to get them ever. And if you stop stuff from being limited, then all characters can run around in uber-sets, and classes will need to be reworked to compensate for this, and the entire POINT of eq (improving your character's strength through work) goes away. May as well just give everyone nearly identical sets at the start. I never said we should get rid of rares/uniques. As a matter of fact, I addressed top end gear. Take away the owner only flag, give it a resize flag...or even better, make it rot on death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 As a logical consequence of removing looting, you HAVE to remove rare/unique items limits. Else, that eq STOPS circulating. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valsgarde Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 There sure is alot of negativity in this thread. I'm just happy the mud is still up and running. There is a lot of negativity because there is a lot negative. All points have been accurate and constructive regardless of which side of the fence they're on, so I don't see what the problem is. This thread is the best thing to happen to FL in a long time. In addition to agreeing with all problems cited by Raargant, I also totally agree with Dobson. Maybe it's because what little reputation I have here is of an antagonist and I can sympathize, whatever - but the validity of what he says is sound as a pound. I think he's a bit idealistic and unrealistic regarding PK, but I think leaning towards not being so unbelievably dickish is definitely a step in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Forsaken Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 you guys need to go around logging in characters beyond the rare limit. I havent seen some pices of eq in over a month Pshaw a month? The thin-bladed polearm hasn't been there in over a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRins Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Pali I have no clue how you are missing that I am not saying to completely get rid of looting. What I am trying to say is that I think the vast majority of items (lets say for items below lvl 35 or whatever.) should be owner only, and maybe not even all of those. I would think the shiny, and generally magic in nature items should be lootable like weapons since it is semi-believable that such magical qualities would make the item suit the wearer instead of the wearer suiting the item. Basically what I am trying to do is create a decent pool of objects, with varying stats though none as rediculously powerful as the super-rares we all fight over (those of us who actually know where they can be found..see other posts for that argument), that people could maintain after a death but not be completely decked right out of the grave. I mean, you would still need weapons, shields, belts, and considerably better armor than what you reanimate with if you want to take down a top dog but at least the pissant that wants to kill you silently, when you are naked, just because people like to win regardless of who they actually beat won't have a very easy time of it and you might actually get away...though considerably doubtful since you still don't have any weapons or shield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Ah, my mistake KRins... you simply want people to be assured a basic set after deaths. I figured lockers took care of that, but... *shrugs* Note to self: Do not play CoD4 Live while forum reading. It causes mistakes in both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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