"That's why I kill people": A Retiree's Thoughts on Counterstrike-RP, FL, and more

[Celerity]

Me too! Just curious about this topic and it seems to be derailing rapidly...

[Raargant]

Posts moved and thread pruned as appropriate.

When I have some free time, I'll post my final thoughts on things.

[The Wayward Knight]

Free time is a precious commodity.

[The Wayward Knight]

Apparently more precious than I thought it was. Raargant?

[Minotaur]

This post will be for my suggestions. But first' date=' I'd like to hear some discussion, thoughts, and suggestions of your own.[/quote']''

hm... any thoughts yet?

[drood]

Posts moved and thread pruned as appropriate.

When I have some free time, I'll post my final thoughts on things.

Great thread! Found it while doing a search for something completely different.

Did we ever get those final thoughts in another post?

[HouselessRogue]

Heheh... I forgot about this post. Raar's the man.

[Mudder]

I just re-read it. I forgot all about this. Thanks for resurrecting it!

It feels like some of these problems have been addressed already. Though it does still feel like many cabals are still promoting mindless PK. I would LOVE to see heavy restrictions on those who have a PK centered RP approach within Cabals. To hit T(and especially beyond), force them to have more development.

It does feel like better RP is found at lower levels than within lvl 50 cabals. I would say it is likely because rewards for cabals at lvl 50 are tied more to PK than RP. I agree, for E/L you SHOULD have the PK ability. Yet there should be an equal amount of RP tied to it also.

I guess what I propose here is that we perhaps tone down our PK rewards system and replace it with RP rewards for a little bit. See what happens. The powergamers will still powergame, but they will be very limited in progress unless they pick up the RP game.

Similar to laughter, RP is contagious. The more RP going around, the more everyone will RP. I say it is win, win.

[Ali_gmud]

I just read over most of the opening few posts of this thread. Here's what I go through. I love being the underdog, I love being challenged, and I love challenging myself, I also like/try to keep my RP up. I am constantly rolling under powered combo's and often fighting monsters. But what happens more than often is, because I'm in a cabal "generally" I'm subject to cabal warfare.

So If I'm not fighting the opposing fraction/retrieving standard, then I'm getting armor and weaponary to fight certain characters that I've found I'm fighting the most. There is almost no time RP in those sort of situations.

I roll under powered combo's to force me to RP because If I don't have a PK machine, then I'm getting chomped, and the only other way to make a name for myself/character would be to RP my guts out.

what I've found... maybe it's just me, and my strange ways.

edit: I've been here since, 3rd form..13.... 7 years ago, I'm 20 now and I can safely say, I've never been given custom title "tear drop"

[MadCowDisease]

i creamed my pants when i read that post raargent.

my frustrations with this game. the reason reaching pinn annoys me so much.

[Mmm Coffee]

Very well stated in a theoretical sense, Raargant but we need solutions vs. theory. Everyone plays for mildly different reasons but generally speaking, we all like the thrill of PK.

As a long-time on/off player of his mud and previously Abandoned Realms, I knew a handful of the original IMM staff (in game only) when they were players on AR. I believe a lot of the content Raargant mentioned was the foundation for building FL. Now, RP issues aside, what I've seen happen over the course of time is a gap in overall PK balance, mainly due to equipment availability but also due to things like cabal skills, Qrace/class availability to evils (not so much to goods). It has always been my opinion that the game mechanics favor evils over goods in almost every case.

How about this for some real solutions in toning the balance:

1) ALL qraces/qclasses can not proceed beyond Trusted in cabals

2) A couple badass "goodie-only" weapon additions

3) Tone other classes so they are able to be competitive against the more recent additions (blademasters and liches) to avoid this scenario:

where pk

Rogue (me)

Lich

quit

4) More IMM restrictions on Quest apps and cabal inductees in the spirit of preserving some sort of balance.

5) Introduce another good-aligned Qrace/Qclass (Angels perhaps) to help with diversity in the good-aligned pool. I'm sick of every blessing I get from another character being Irumeru's.

.......meh, it's late and I'm running out of steam but the problem is not solely in the counterstrike-RP scenario. If the game was more balanced from a PK perspective, you'll see more diversity and, hence, more enrichment.

[jibber]

I understand your frustration with the above.. but I can assure you that just because someone is a Blademaster, or a Lich or Vampire, it requires a certain skill to play them successfully. I've seen some very unsuccessful blademasters, some unsuccessful liches who never hit 50, and a lot of unsuccessful vampires.

And yes, I've seen rogues kill all three.

[jibber]

As for a suggestion to the above, I wish people would care less for equipment while caring more for the RP of the PK they're part of. I've seen so many people in cabals log on, see a few enemies, and log right back out because they're afraid to lose their equipment. (Or just afraid to fight period because of little, little time -- which in that case they shouldn't be in a cabal anyway...)

Just my two cents

[Ex-D&Der]

I understand your frustration with the above.. but I can assure you that just because someone is a Blademaster, or a Lich or Vampire, it requires a certain skill to play them successfully. I've seen some very unsuccessful blademasters, some unsuccessful liches who never hit 50, and a lot of unsuccessful vampires.

And yes, I've seen rogues kill all three.

I think the problem isn't the skill required, it's what happens if you have skill.

[f0xx]

I think the problem isn't the skill required' date=' it's what happens [i']if you have skill.

A dream comes true. That's what happens.

[I've Killed for Less]

where pk

Rogue (me)

Lich

quit

OMG, I know your pain ALL too well. I had the WORST time fighting a certain lich as Zryrgryra. It was pretty much a lost cause.

[Mmm Coffee]

OMG' date=' I know your pain ALL too well. I had the WORST time fighting a certain lich as Zryrgryra. It was pretty much a lost cause.[/quote']

I'm not saying this is me specifically, it was just an example how there are now certain classes that are completely gimped from taking down other classes (and sub-cabals). This was just the easiest example I could think of.

There are a handful of overpowering features I can think of off top of head (and everyone who plays the classes that have these features will deny):

1 Strength-damned Traven zombies

2 The way powerword kill is based on a certain stat

3 The way spell-turning currently works (I think there should be a lag time of a couple rounds before it can be re-cast)

4 Cabal powers, mainly once you hit T and above, are way too buff IMO

5 The 8-rank maximum PK advantage (mainly due to point #4)

6 Held items not being able to be disarmed by more classes

Also a list of gimps that I've noticed...

1 A lack of better good-only weapons

2 Lack of goodie Qclass/Qrace options (compared to evils)

3 Monks/BLMs not being able to cancel their stances (why not make mana the limiting factor here instead of what stance they're in: "Clearing your mind of the battle, you step out of XYZ stance" -75 mana)

4 The penalty/duration for a failed BMG field-dressing (combined with the often paltry return on HP when it does work)

5 A certain cureable that requires a strength of 19 to use (if being good-aligned is about having more survival options...this should be tweaked)

6 Held items not being able to disarmed by more classes

Obviously, none of these are be-all/end-all features but when combined with the already evil/neutral/cabal'd PK advantage....it makes for a serious uphill battle if you are good-aligned, new, or not cabal'd.

[Tantangel]

I'm bumping this so I can read it later, it seems intriguing and I haven't been on the forum actively in the past month or so because I'm too busy trying to RP my *** off and train and it's annoying.

[Dale]

Honestly this should be placed in the essays or stories or some sort of special forum and then sticked, permanently.

[sarcon]

This is true within an aspect. One must remember that to belong to an organisation that so STEEPLY follows its beliefs and ideals will often bring its members into conflict with those who have opposing ideals and beliefs...

Cabal's are supposed to signify the chosen of those particular beliefs. The people who are bound and willing to fight beyond all reasonable position to uphold and defend what they believe in.

However the fact that this should limit RP/PK balance to being majorly PK orientated is perhaps not being in the best interest of the mud. Especially seeing as the more 'advanced' players ussually end up in the cabals or atleast sticking with them.

However:

One must remember that it also LARGELY depends on the way that a character wants to be played. I can offer an example of two of my recent characters:

Ghadryn - Werebeast druid - I played him like the father figure of Gaia, the person you can come to to talk about problems, Im pretty sure you'd agree that he was a more RP oriented character whilst still fulfilling my PK duties in the Watchers (and I was pretty well ranked in there too.)

Dumela - Halfling ranger - I'm playing him as a tiny terror. A combatant and a soldier. Someone who will deal with the running and the problems of the cabal, but mainly wants to slay our enemies, make candle holders from their skulls and whilst stealing the family jewels making an effort to swoon your wife.

These are two completely different characters in the SAME cabal, but they are different because thats the way I want to play them. Its the way I want them to develop and behave.

I mean, I have had Brendyn (in my opinion the #1 threat to my cabal) ask me to leave him alone so he can do things, RP things AKA: propose to Elesa the other day. There is no point in being unreasonable when the opportunity for RP presents itself, even if you are not directly involved.

Whilst we can blame the institution (cabals or the mud in entirety) for our problems this singular point remains: Its the the PLAYERS whom create this world, whom offer and decide their OWN level of involvement. If any of this is to change it is up to US. You and I, the players.

On another note:

Your decisions are based on your character and your ability to make them.

My cabal immortal told me to kill a paladin the other day and I refused. I told my cabal immortal that I would not do it. (Its not right for neut to just randomly kill a paladin in my mind anyway)

I could of lost my position, the leadership, the cabal could of kicked me out, the whole thing.

But basically it comes down to YOU and YOUR convictions and decisions. How well are you BOUND to your character? How strong do you cling to your beliefs? Is it worth a moment of immortal interaction to sacrifice a character you have put hours and hours into it?

The lure of such things can often force people to do things with their characters that they shouldnt. Again its up to you to REALLY consider how these will change your characters. As a neutral you really need to have a good reason to be killing another neutral or a good or even an evil. You're neutral - you're supposed to just be chilled with everyone right?

Give it some thought.

<3 A

I would have to agree 100%.

[sarcon]

Now, with regards to Cabal Wars being mindless.. Some have basically said it is mindless pking and an endless capture the standard scenario.

Me personally I don't mind that to much.. I can probably get the standard 10 times within a few hours and I am happy. However, for those that wish more I have a few ideas that I will just spit out. (Keep in mind it is 4:30am and my brain is kind of mush and I have not pre-wrote this)

Lets take a stab in the dark..

1.) Introduce a way to actually invade the other cabals halls, I am talking like a full invasion. Introduce a system where you can actually position yourself and your cabals to take over there camp. Thus, once there camp is taken over they are left with no home. They must rebuild somewhere else in the meantime and try to take back there home. (I could go for ever on how to actually make this happen but I rather leave it to the imms and you all)

2.) Army's - Perhaps find a way to make these armies more real... Almost like raids are to cities. Even maybe 3 or 4 mobs within a room guarding a post and when you send your troops they attack it. Also, in doing this perhaps introduce some Cabal quest that will actually give you special army characters.. long lost soldiers and what not. (Yet again I am sure imms and you all can elaborate on this if you choose)

3.) You say people are mindless Pkers right? Well.. If that is the case why don't we try to introduce a more interactive fighting Arena tournament. I remember we did this a few times a couple years ago and it was AMAZING!! Probably the most remembered times I have ever had playing this game.. oodles of fun. There was like 10 of us in there and only one Victor. That Victor one a piece of armor or weapon.

I honestly would love to elaborate more on these points but I am about fall asleep in my chair.. So, I figured I get this out before I forgot.

[Dead Voodoo Doll]

..

[Twinblades713]

OMG' date=' I know your pain ALL too well. I had the WORST time fighting a certain lich as Zryrgryra. It was pretty much a lost cause.[/quote']

[mya]

1 Strength-damned Traven zombies

2 The way powerword kill is based on a certain stat

3 The way spell-turning currently works (I think there should be a lag time of a couple rounds before it can be re-cast)

4 Cabal powers, mainly once you hit T and above, are way too buff IMO

5 The 8-rank maximum PK advantage (mainly due to point #4)

6 Held items not being able to be disarmed by more classes

Also a list of gimps that I've noticed...

1 A lack of better good-only weapons

2 Lack of goodie Qclass/Qrace options (compared to evils)

3 Monks/BLMs not being able to cancel their stances (why not make mana the limiting factor here instead of what stance they're in: "Clearing your mind of the battle, you step out of XYZ stance" -75 mana)

4 The penalty/duration for a failed BMG field-dressing (combined with the often paltry return on HP when it does work)

5 A certain cureable that requires a strength of 19 to use (if being good-aligned is about having more survival options...this should be tweaked)

6 Held items not being able to disarmed by more classes

Powerword being based on a certain stat is quite good. This aids a Necro fight the Elite characters that have played their characters for a long time and have achived high positions inside cabals.

Anyhow this was probably changed with the new Powerword code Malch put in.

Spell Turning is quite Balanced. You can land stuff through spell turning. You can drop spell turning with low cost spells. Invockers have easy on This.

Only main problem is with Shamans, but you can work around it with skill.

Clerics with high saves disregards meele, and a Shaman can attrition them for a win by no mana. If he is meele based and low saves, land blasphemy.

Hoo and lag time is a Couple of rounds.

Held items should not be disarmable. They are a fall back for Invockers that cannot use a staff, cause it goes. Or a long shot strategy that involves using ofensive wands (which i never seen).

Monks/Blademasters Stances change difficulty is a hard coded vulnerability of the class. They would be to powerfull otherwise.

Battlemages field dressing definitively needs a tone up. They should also receive TELEPORT. Only mage with no teleport. (DK,INV,Necro)

19 STR healing item is uber. It is quite good that it is limited to Humans or Avian Mages. Imagine a Elven Battlemage with that thing ? To buff.

Avians have Vulnerability and Humans are well ... Humans.

Weight is also a strong Balancing factor.

Hoo... Faerie invocker with that item.... Not.

[f0xx]

Well done for ruining yet another good thread.