"That's why I kill people": A Retiree's Thoughts on Counterstrike-RP, FL, and more

[Imoutgoodbye]

NAH HA! I knew I was right. Dey>f0xx

This calls for celebration.

I knew you were right!

Dispel, when I make people flee, I feel like I've won a small battle. Especially when they take off out of the area. I run in the opposite direction.

[f0xx]

Actually, in what you're thinking, you're right.

Dey

Well, theoretically he might be right, but that still doesn't change Mya's point though and I still can put my sanc up without fleeing using one mean or another.

[Deykari]

I know.

Dey

[Twinblades713]

Hush, f0xx. You're not invited to my "Hate on f0xx" party.

[f0xx]

Atleast the eye-in-a-mouth is back and we've deliver another EPIC derailment to a thread.

[English lad]

A vampire isn't actually too tough a fight for an invoker, once you figure out how to deal with certain things. You won't always win of course, but I did fairly well against valadar with my 'voker. Now my cabal choices helped a lot, but it was more about staying calm, and recognising when to change tactics, fighting vampires is all about preparation, and staying calm, one mistake can screw you over, so you have to have a game plan and stick to it.

[-Totenkopf-]

Geezus.

I don't think Vampires are that powerful. They have numerous very large weaknesses. I have never had any problem at all wiping the floor with them. It however comes with experience, you have to had played at least one to work out when they are most susceptible and what they can and cannot do. I had no problems against Messalantha, Cariousus, Vormav, Aciati etc etc etc. The only vampire that had ever given me problems was Seium, and that wasn't you're 'run of the mill' vampire, and from what I have heard was played by the man himself, Virigoth.

The character that has given me the most hassles as a vampire is probably Turnus, primarily due to his choice of weaponry as it royally screws me in the arse.

I got a utter arse kicking from Faye the other night (it was 3am, I wasn't planning on logging on but caught site of that elder not being around thread and felt guilty). I had forgotten all about thunderstorm, it was not since fighting Druggin in 1.0 as Ghaerk that I have been reminded of its arse kicking power, nor has Faye ever used it against me before.

Couple that with a stroke of luck from three consecutive bashes from the dragon (totally 10 rounds of lag, at which point I was dead. I got in opening attack, and no further commands. I am in general quite good at making myself quite lag resistant (and its duration), however, it appears that no matter what you do, you still take maximum possible lag from those dragon bashes. Good work to them though, first death in months, I was quite used to having no real dramas against Faye, and being able to get her on the run quite easily, so it certainly caught me a little by surprise! I got completely reamed!

I think a vampire could be played much better, I am very slow when it comes to chasing. Before this character I hadn't played in approx 6 years. There have been a myriad of new areas and changes in that time, I don't have the time to go about learning all the routes etc again, so I tend to just 'roughly spam' the right directions. I think this is vampire ~4 for me though, so its certainly not my first.

As to tactics I think you are talking about Mya. I do make use of them, where I feel they are necessary. Most of the time however it is unrequired, however, due to my above mentioned ****ty chasing skills, it certainly comes in handy at times, especially when coupled with being a Syndi.

Neewie, if you are who I think you are, you've done quite reasonably on occassion, keep on going at it mate, you'll be fine.

[Ex-D&Der]

Geezus.

I don't think Vampires are that powerful. They have numerous very large weaknesses. I have never had any problem at all wiping the floor with them. It however comes with experience, you have to had played at least one to work out when they are most susceptible and what they can and cannot do. I had no problems against Messalantha, Cariousus, Vormav, Aciati etc etc etc. The only vampire that had ever given me problems was Seium, and that wasn't you're 'run of the mill' vampire, and from what I have heard was played by the man himself, Virigoth.

What happened to this:

Played 5 or so vampires, in the correct hands, damn near impossible to die.

And yes, especially now that healers cant gate to them. Even then it was damn near impossible, if you had half a clue and weren't being stupid.

http://forum.theforsakenlands.org/showpost.php?p=12431&postcount=87

[f0xx]

Ah lol, wtfpwned.

[Twinblades713]

Nice.

[Kyzarius]

hahahah totally owned

[mya]

What happened to this:

Played 5 or so vampires, in the correct hands, damn near impossible to die.

And yes, especially now that healers cant gate to them. Even then it was damn near impossible, if you had half a clue and weren't being stupid.

http://forum.theforsakenlands.org/showpost.php?p=12431&postcount=87

Yes and no. Vampires are very hard to kill and very easy to kill with.

But they also die, like any other class, most times in (my view) lag locked to a superior melee opponent.

Or as in my case to uber Pawns. When i actually kill a Vamp its total obliterations style. With the right stars all aligned to form a highway of Vampire doom.

Vampires that somehow fails to saves vuln spells, caught by surprise sleeping and charged into death. Or in that time that he has been Fulllooted and has yet to had time to deck in uber gear.

That is why you don't wait for him to come to you. You give chase and hard.

[-Totenkopf-]

Played 5 or so vampires, in the correct hands, damn near impossible to die.

Its not a cake walk, you will see more sucky vamps then good ones. You will however probably never find me in a compromised position. Nor would you find a vamp played by the likes of Despiser etc, when we don't want to be found.

All my deaths have been due to getting laglocked, not being found the the day, on the other hand, I have found and staked even quite capable vampires over the years.

I have had alot of difficult fights (especially early on in the piece), if it were not for my cabal I would not be half way as successful. I think some things have been changed since I last played vamps, cause I can no longer land spells worth a damn, previously, even on dwarves etc, you were more then capable.

[Mali]

Bump.

[EyeSeeU]

I tear up a little every time I read this. It brings me back to when I played Lathander Gullykin a halfling bard. I spent hundreds of hours with other people not pking, thats right folks we were rping and creating the birth of Heralds. Sure Virigoth and Crypticant, and Athaekeetha, helped us out, but the players involved created something beautiful. I think a lot of people (and even I am guilty at times when I do decide to play) have lost this creative mentality. They/We/Whomever decided that it was better to get the code and interworkings of the game and then try to master it, forsaking the exploration of discovery for the best race/class/cabal combo. Now the elite players are tyrants and are almost god like, and the more I think about it now the more I feel lost, because it didn't start this way. I have wasted too much time in my life experiencing the vastness of a world such as this to then only sit by idle while it withers and dies. It shouldn't end this way, this is disgraceful.

[J.Twendrist]

Point one: FL takes a lot to learn. It's not easy by any means, especially if you want to be pk viable. Which is both a positive and a negative. If you look at video games today, they aren't designed like fl where you can lose everything and go back to start. Now-a-days video games are designed to easily recover, and barely get set back at all. People do not have the attention span they used to have to put forth the energy to learn such an in-depth game.

Point two: The raw number of games catering to creative minds have increased dramatically, and with the growing of graphics, broadband speeds, and technology, a game like fl to stay viable has to do one or two things. We have to get back the players who loved fl and have left for one reason or another, or take players from other muds. Now, personally, I won't go to another mud. If fl were ever to die, that'd be it. I put too much time into learning the game to try and do it again. My current character has managed to kill a few big name people, but a good deal of time time I get rolled over. Years and years I've played off and on, only to get to this point. So, I feel taking players away from other muds will be an uphill fight. New players, in this day and age are going to be super rare, and even the ones who do try are unlikely to stay around because they have no hope of even fighting the vets we have here now. Hell, I don't consider myself a vet by any means, I have the love of the game, and I still feel like it is a pointless waste when someone can eat my face no matter what I do.

That being said, I feel like the truly great players, who are at what I would call epic level pk status (Xylth, Garacci, Thulgan) to name a few, I find that they have both the superior rp, pk, and the knowledge of when to be ruthless and when to be merciful. Then you got people who can pk at an epic status that are going to cut you down to size via full loot even after being killed every time (Tertius is one that comes to mind but there are others).

Now, I'm not against looting, you should be able to take things you want or need and not be forced to make excuses why you did it, its your right. That being said, as far as looting goes, destroying stuff that you do not need/can't use/ against someone who can barely touch you is absolutely pointless. I haven't played a character since Kyris, and regretfully, I flipped out at fox after a particularly bad experience, something I regret. I will use Kyris as an example because I can't speak for other people, but that was the very first time I'd ever gone ape**** on the forums like that. I was *incredibly* pissed off, and it made me leave this game until about four months ago. I left because I refuse to get that angry about a game. Thing is, fl is a game where you pour your heart, soul, and hemmorage your time into the world in an effort to make a lasting impression. I love fl, I love the fact that it is a living book. As Kyris I took defeat after defeat after defeat. I rarely won a match, and it wasn't even a big deal. Hell, even losing stuff that was shiny wasn't a big deal. I get that, a hundred and ten percent, losing the life is worse to me because I always condie so fast. What really, really, really, pissed me off was the complete destruction of things only I could use. It wasn't by someone I had killed over and over again. It wasn't by someone who I was a threat to. Saccing everything in a kill against someone who isn't even a threat to you does two things. It is a slap in the face to the player, not the character (providing this is not a situation where that character HAD to be knocked down a peg or they would continue rolling over everyone, like Thulgan or Tertius). Also, to anyone, new or not, who gets completely sac'd by someone they couldn't even touch... it's so damn disheartening that it isn't even funny. It's like "Man, I couldn't even touch that dude, didn't pose a threat to them, and they still destroyed things they couldn't even touch? Screw it. Why both re-equiping, why bother trying? Eyeseeyou hit it right, the current elite players know the code, they know each and every little trick, and nothing short of equal knowledge is going to be enough. A lot of us don't have the time or will to learn every single freaking detail. It really pisses me off when people scream "give me the code give me the code" because it's like, great... the jerks who have brought us to this point are going to get even better(not all of you are jerks, some are quite helpful, but one helpful elite does not equal 5-7 who will screw everyone), might as well find a new game to play.

All in all, the reason we have so few players now is an inherit lack of self control. A lot of people play to feel like they are a bad ***, and they impose themselves on others via pk which is fine. Lack of self control comes in when someone goes further and ****s on the player. It's not the equ or things that's the big deal, sure losing stuff sucks, but what really makes people mad is the lack of power to prevent it, and then furthermore, the fact that it is pointless to regain the stuff. When it is pointless to regain the lost items, it's pointless to play, and you may as well go to another game.

We need self control in our player base to know the difference of ingame and outgame actions. Doing something just to be a dick drives people away. You can win a war with class, what we all need to realize is where as sometimes having a little class might take away from your "win" or your "good feeling" you get from being a bad *** in the sense you might not completely curb stomp someone, or you might let them live when you see they are disconnected, in the end it will retain players. Some people might turn this in to pro and con about full looting, but that's not the point... its when someone gets sooo defeated that it is pointless to continue, we lose people, and having class in the game will inspire more people to come back.

[J.Twendrist]

I guess my point is, you can kill, you can deck yourself out in the items taken from your enemie's bodies, and you can feel like a bad ***, all without stomping on the players will to go on. The fact that most of the powerful people don't get this is what is driving people away. Now you got 10-15 top line vets, and less than ten people who do not qualify to be called such. That is incredibly disproportionate, and that alone shows the problems. A healthy fl would have 2 or 3 times the new/less experienced people that it would vets/elites. When you only have vet's and elites, theres no room to grow, the new people can only fight them and will get tired and quit.

[Kyzarius]

Amazing how much of this is still applicable today 4 years after the initial OP.

I still believe and will stick to the concept that the reason the game is in decline or not rising from previously depreciated numbers is time invested vs reward.

FL just requires to much time and effort. With the reward fleeting at best.

[J.Twendrist]

I think combinations of rewarding classy players, making equipment less important (a great step was made with cabal outfit), and having new things to do and areas to explore (also great steps have been made here). Also, the integrated paths idea suggested by Celerity would be a great step forward. If every class was as customizable as a crusader is, you would have a lot more people come back just to check it out. All in all, with a game like fl, the reward has to be to a large part being involved with the world itself, leaving lasting marks on the world, and just being able to play a character in this living book that we know as fl.

[Kyzarius]

FL doesnt let you keep any reward though.

You spend 10x the amount of effort, for a fleeting payoff.

The game tries, and succeeds at being so extremely hard. Requiring a huge time investment. Now if you had thousands of players, a rich graphical environment, an innovative pk system, original scores then make the game that hard.

Otherwise though you're putting your carrot on to long of a stick, and poisoning it.

[Dead Voodoo Doll]

Don't die, you'll have to start over!

[Kyzarius]

Don't die, you'll have to start over!

In that game, if you died, you did have to start over, true. However, you didnt lose the damage from your attacks plus take more damage until you spend hours getting your pants back.

Double dragon was easy compared to fl.

[J.Twendrist]

Well if it's a game, the reward should be playing the game. Unless it's gambling and you win money. Trick is making it fun to learn the game, followed by keeping it fun once you learn the game.

There needs to be a reset button that levels the playing field for everyone. It would take a complete overhall to bring everyone back to close to equal knowledge. I am a strong supporter of every class being like Crusaders. That level of selectability would make every character different, and would change up the current rock paper scissors that we have. Also, letting players build estates, expanding the world, leaving little tidbits in the world so years from now people will see stuff about your character.

[Kyzarius]

Well if it's a game, the reward should be playing the game. Unless it's gambling and you win money. Trick is making it fun to learn the game, followed by keeping it fun once you learn the game.

There needs to be a reset button that levels the playing field for everyone. It would take a complete overhall to bring everyone back to close to equal knowledge. I am a strong supporter of every class being like Crusaders. That level of selectability would make every character different, and would change up the current rock paper scissors that we have. Also, letting players build estates, expanding the world, leaving little tidbits in the world so years from now people will see stuff about your character.

My opinion...

Burning gear when you die is asinine.

Full looting chases away anyone who puts the effort in.

Either reduce the risk to meet with todays standards, or reduce the effort significantly to become an end game player.

Make the required investment more in line with competing mediums off entertainment, by making lvling/training much easier and less tedious. Or reduce the sheer difficulty empodied by full loots, and punishing players for playing the game by burning gear on death yet having areas where exploration is a deadly practice.

[Kyzarius]

One example is cabals.

Why is it so freakin hard to gain entry into the fl equivilant of an end game? Entry should be automated, encouraged, a nearly given thing and fluid. Once hitting 50 and decided upon by the player it should be as easy as paying a clan guard.

When you have developers like the Dark Souls folks talking about cutting "tedious fat" from their product, yet a text based experience still requires weeks of pandering to make progress..one should think about the product being marketed.