The Forsaken Posted June 4, 2013 Report Share Posted June 4, 2013 One example is cabals. Why is it so freakin hard to gain entry into the fl equivilant of an end game? Entry should be automated, encouraged, a nearly given thing and fluid. Once hitting 50 and decided upon by the player it should be as easy as paying a clan guard. FL requires you to become invested in your creation of life. Not by mandate of course...but by pushing you to actually 'try'. If they ever made a guard that you could pay and then be inducted into a cabal, whats the point of even trying? You'd have a string of 50's that were active for 3-4 days then deleted. And you know what? It's not actually 'freakin hard' to get into a cabal. It really doesn't take that much effort. You play this game because you enjoy it I am assuming. And if you are playing this game and in a clan, someone will notice it and eventually you'll get a chance. If you can't hold your horses and play a 50 for a week without being in a cabal, then maybe you should be playing something with instant gratification, like tetris, or that beach volley ball game with the anime chicks bouncing up and down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Voodoo Doll Posted June 4, 2013 Report Share Posted June 4, 2013 Burning gear when you die is asinine. +∞ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celerity Posted June 4, 2013 Report Share Posted June 4, 2013 FL's greatest problems and their solutions are still contained in this thread. Just a matter of fixing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Voodoo Doll Posted June 4, 2013 Report Share Posted June 4, 2013 or that beach volley ball game with the anime chicks bouncing up and down. Dead or Alive Volleyball baby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mya Posted June 4, 2013 Report Share Posted June 4, 2013 My opinion... Burning gear when you die is asinine. Full looting chases away anyone who puts the effort in. Either reduce the risk to meet with todays standards, or reduce the effort significantly to become an end game player. Make the required investment more in line with competing mediums off entertainment, by making lvling/training much easier and less tedious. Or reduce the sheer difficulty empodied by full loots, and punishing players for playing the game by burning gear on death yet having areas where exploration is a deadly practice. This is already covered by the moderate Tier. Most of the PB is just to embarrassed to play smurf. Cause it's the "newbie" tier... :tongue: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mali Posted June 4, 2013 Report Share Posted June 4, 2013 I think this thread could use more dead or alive volleyball pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyzarius Posted June 4, 2013 Report Share Posted June 4, 2013 FL requires you to become invested in your creation of life. Not by mandate of course...but by pushing you to actually 'try'. If they ever made a guard that you could pay and then be inducted into a cabal, whats the point of even trying? You'd have a string of 50's that were active for 3-4 days then deleted. And you know what? It's not actually 'freakin hard' to get into a cabal. It really doesn't take that much effort. You play this game because you enjoy it I am assuming. And if you are playing this game and in a clan, someone will notice it and eventually you'll get a chance. If you can't hold your horses and play a 50 for a week without being in a cabal, then maybe you should be playing something with insta sit nt gratification, like tetris, or that beach volley ball game with the anime chicks bouncing up and down. Hmm and whats happened to the fl pbase numbers by standing by the current formula? My play times rarely see more than four people. You cant keep swearing by the old ways, as if they will sustain the mud. When it is shrinking more and mkre each year. Sit aound you will get noticed is great when soapboxing a vet, but telling people ifnthey dont like it they should get out is the EXACT reason we see less and less players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Forsaken Posted June 4, 2013 Report Share Posted June 4, 2013 It's shrinking more and more each year because it's a TEXT BASED RPG. I mean come on. I think we are all mature enough to realize that our generation may very well be the last generation that will every play these games. Even if you streamline the process into cabals, give people free gear, and cater to everyone's needs and desires, you will still have a...text based rpg. We are a dying breed. You can't put Black Ops 2 in front of a kid next to FL and expect them to want to have to READ. Half the kids I do work with can barely read to begin with even though they are in highschool. We can advertise, do outreach, whatever...but when it comes down to it when we are gone MUDs will most likely be too. FL's pbase numbers are dropping because when some decide to quit, there are none to take their place. And sadly, I don't ever foresee the masses drawn into MUDs. Again, in my opinion it has nothing to do with the 'current formula', it has everything to do with the ancient (but loved by us nutjobs) chalkboard it's written on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyzarius Posted June 4, 2013 Report Share Posted June 4, 2013 It's shrinking more and more each year because it's a TEXT BASED RPG. I mean come on. I think we are all mature enough to realize that our generation may very well be the last generation that will every play these games. Even if you streamline the process into cabals' date=' give people free gear, and cater to everyone's needs and desires, you will still have a...text based rpg. We are a dying breed. You can't put Black Ops 2 in front of a kid next to FL and expect them to want to have to READ. Half the kids I do work with can barely read to begin with even though they are in highschool. We can advertise, do outreach, whatever...but when it comes down to it when we are gone MUDs will most likely be too. FL's pbase numbers are dropping because when some decide to quit, there are none to take their place. And sadly, I don't ever foresee the masses drawn into MUDs. Again, in my opinion it has nothing to do with the 'current formula', it has everything to do with the ancient (but loved by us nutjobs) chalkboard it's written on.[/quote'] Incorrect, other muds have sustaining or even growing numbers. Fl just has a we wont change screw you attitude that you just espoussed in your condescending reply to my suggestion. I mean comeon, I poi t out it is a huge time sink, with tedious mechanics, and you tell me to go play something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iyorvin Posted June 4, 2013 Report Share Posted June 4, 2013 Yeah, text based mudding is making a come back actually. Surprisingly, but if you do a quick google search you'll see more and more reported numbers. It's a matter of capturing those people trying new muds, and he's right to a point. We grew up on muds, and these hard *** rules. Newer players will be looking at being able to ease into the game, but moderate tier has it's place and people are encouraged that way. Our biggest issue right now is presentation. We have very weak branding right now, both on our website and forum. With a coder and changes, we just need to work on a steller website and keeping it current. The changes with code will come and we will evolve. Have to keep positive though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyzarius Posted June 4, 2013 Report Share Posted June 4, 2013 Cabals should be an automated process. Current format spurns people on off play hours. promotions should be automated all the way to L with the questing and realm exploration requirements added. Make it about exploring the game, not about pandering to an imm. Quest class, races should be available just by meeting req and taking on the quest. Remove the long tedious vetting period. Again, explore discover, replay, gain. Cabal alliances should be completly player controlled. With no hard coded vendettas aside from those that defy align restrictions. No more, you can do anything here...except this, and that oh and tht will get you demoted. Leveling/training should be ten times the pace it is now. It is boring, tedious, and a detractor from player interactions pk and rp which is the meat of Fl. A new player falls asleep at their kb before they even begin to experience the best part of the game. You still have to explore, you still have to read lore, you still can fail quests, you can still be full looted. But you dont have to spend hours sending carriage returns desperatly waiting for someone to talk to on the off chance an invisible person is watching you to build on your character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killfiend Posted June 4, 2013 Report Share Posted June 4, 2013 This is already covered by the moderate Tier. Most of the PB is just to embarrassed to play smurf. Cause it's the "newbie" tier... :tongue: Moderate tier only limits the amount of rares to just a few. Putting you at a major disadvantage anyways. That only causes you to suck at such a level to never contend against the power houses at all. So to say that a fix to full looting is the moderate tier, is asinine. The point of it is that no one should be able to just full loot you because they feel like being an *** that day. Because it makes new people look away at the idea of really getting better at the game, enough to roll a ruthless. Sure, you can roll smurf, then hate the game even more because you cannot have the gear that will make you even close to being a contender. Full looting is just stupid. There is no reason power houses or even lucky newbs should be able to say hey, I just got lucky screw them and all their gear, or a power house to be a dick and throw you the middle finger and strip you of every thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Forsaken Posted June 4, 2013 Report Share Posted June 4, 2013 Incorrect' date=' other muds have sustaining or even growing numbers. Fl just has a we wont change screw you attitude that you just espoussed in your condescending reply to my suggestion. I mean comeon, I poi t out it is a huge time sink, with tedious mechanics, and you tell me to go play something else.[/quote'] I apologize if you think I was trying to belittle your opinion. I was merely stating my own. I don't have a 'screw you attitude', I just happen to be an opinionated person. If other muds are growing I'd love to know if they are actually new to mudding or just hopping over from another. As far as it being a 'huge time sink with tedious mechanics' you're right. But again in my non condescending personal opinion, that's what a game is. A time sink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Forsaken Posted June 4, 2013 Report Share Posted June 4, 2013 Cabals should be an automated process. Current format spurns people on off play hours. promotions should be automated all the way to L with the questing and realm exploration requirements added. Make it about exploring the game, not about pandering to an imm. Quest class, races should be available just by meeting req and taking on the quest. Remove the long tedious vetting period. Again, explore discover, replay, gain. Cabal alliances should be completly player controlled. With no hard coded vendettas aside from those that defy align restrictions. No more, you can do anything here...except this, and that oh and tht will get you demoted. Leveling/training should be ten times the pace it is now. It is boring, tedious, and a detractor from player interactions pk and rp which is the meat of Fl. A new player falls asleep at their kb before they even begin to experience the best part of the game. You still have to explore, you still have to read lore, you still can fail quests, you can still be full looted. But you dont have to spend hours sending carriage returns desperatly waiting for someone to talk to on the off chance an invisible person is watching you to build on your character. If qclass/qraces were just an automated quest we'd never see any 'normal' classes. I mean, why would I just play an ogre warrior when I could do a quick quest and play an avatar warrior? As Festorvian has pointed out in other posts, there are people who WILL power rank a counter-class/race just to kill another player out there. Why make that easier by speeding up training and being able to have a fully trained vamp in two days? Am I the only one seeing that this would be a bad idea? Maybe I'm just an old fart who thinks the best things should take time and effort in life AND in games. Anyone ever play FF7? Come on you're all nerds like me I know you have. Knights of the Round anyone? How many DAYS did you spend trying to get that? Was it necessary to have that to beat the game? No. Did you have to have it to even be competitive with the bosses? Nope. But wasn't it a GREAT feeling when you actually got it? You're absolutely right it was. Just like it was a GREAT feeling when I finally got my first Avatar and Undead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyzarius Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 If qclass/qraces were just an automated quest we'd never see any 'normal' classes. I mean, why would I just play an ogre warrior when I could do a quick quest and play an avatar warrior? As Festorvian has pointed out in other posts, there are people who WILL power rank a counter-class/race just to kill another player out there. Why make that easier by speeding up training and being able to have a fully trained vamp in two days? Am I the only one seeing that this would be a bad idea? Maybe I'm just an old fart who thinks the best things should take time and effort in life AND in games. Anyone ever play FF7? Come on you're all nerds like me I know you have. Knights of the Round anyone? How many DAYS did you spend trying to get that? Was it necessary to have that to beat the game? No. Did you have to have it to even be competitive with the bosses? Nope. But wasn't it a GREAT feeling when you actually got it? You're absolutely right it was. Just like it was a GREAT feeling when I finally got my first Avatar and Undead. So what if every goodie was an avatar? its just another layer to the game that promotes interaction. Ya know, every human can be undead too, and all those avatars can have all out melees with all the undead. Vampires and liches frozen in the sunlight by petrifying psions.. I never have understood the omg everyone would be special point of view. The richest most origional parts of fl are in the cabals and their lore, the quest races and quest classes and their lore as well. This is also so out of the realm of obtainable for a new player that most enter the game, and leave it, without ever experiencing it. Imagine a cadre of vamps, undead and liches actually being able to rp the masquerade and continuum lore. And you know what if we end up with ten vamps and just a small clutch of avatar knights and crusaders, then that is when the imms step in...empowering their followers all to promote balance through godly weapons or buffs that are then retracted when no longer needed. I also disagree that nobody would play something normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mya Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 Moderate tier only limits the amount of rares to just a few. Putting you at a major disadvantage anyways. That only causes you to suck at such a level to never contend against the power houses at all. Those few is more than half the available slots. And yes, your maximum power will be lower, but your minimum will be a lot higher. The strength of a Moderate is to break the idea that EQ = PK power, and to show them the truth. That PK power = ( SKILL x EQ ). The Moderate allows you to get that skill to a more competitive level. By reducing downtime. You can get killed every half hour and always be on the same PK power. In fact increasing, because you are learning from each death. People who think EQ is all, just fool themselves. They get a god suit and steam roll all the regular players. Then here comes someone with a lot more skill on a naked evil cleric with a summoned shield and reequips of them. There are tricks that EQ cannot teach you. In fact it will only hinder you from learning them. Necessity is the mother of invention. I have fallen to some very cleaver things created by people who where lacking eq. Like the very basic curse + fly dispel in a fly only room. That sort of thing can catch a new player completely by surprise. Of course players pull plans a lot more complex than that, but I won't share cause I don't want to start giving out ideas. Of course that playing a Moderate requires some thinking. You can no longer cover all field of saves and hit/dam unless you are a Dwarf. You have to make choices. Have to think who are your enemies, and what to bet on. For example a Watcher would most likely get ~50 mental saves and full on hitroll. With a magic axe + shield vs the Ogre Warrior, a light whip to dual vs the Psi and a vuln mace for the monk. A nexian facing a Knights cabal full of meeles, would just go pure Hit/dam. Of course some combos are better for moderate. A gnome warrior would be horrible. But a Avian Battlemage would rock on. A Dwarven Blademaster would be sick. A faerie Invoker would also be quite powerful. Thieves and DK's are also good choices. Shamans to. So would be some cleric combos. Like Dwarf Combat. Drow discord. I bet that Thulgan would do great even in a Duergar Warrior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Voodoo Doll Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 Knights of the Round anyone? damn that golden chocobo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iyorvin Posted June 5, 2013 Report Share Posted June 5, 2013 FF7 upset me because of how limited the end game got. After I had farmed master magic/command/summon materia for all of my characters, and their ultimates, and then the stat morphs from the sunken plane.......I could solo the ultimate weapons with one character. And the chocobo racing had great potential if the difficulty kept increasing. Eventually I had a chocobo so fast I just afk won. I miss that game though. I've never played a game as hard core as that. I just loved it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyeSeeU Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 Besides Skyrim no console RPG game has touched my heart quite like FF7 I still can see Cloud in those commercials that ran a little before and after the games debut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mya Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 Come on, FF7 is not that good. FF8 or FF6 a superior by a mile. Although I did like the snow board thing, but the story just makes no sense. It's like they decided to add a random number of cliches but forgot to make the proper link story wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyeSeeU Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 I'm not super smart, but I understood the storyline very well. FF7 4 LIFE! We will agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inscribed Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 FF6 was the best by far. FF7 was decent but no where close to FF6 in terms of story. FF8 was good too but sad, since the story is essentially a time loop that ends with young Squall/Rinoa killing old Squall/Rinoa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mya Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 I'm not super smart' date=' but I understood the storyline very well. FF7 4 LIFE! We will agree to disagree.[/quote'] I did FF7 3 months ago. The story is very powerful if you are a child or a teenager. But for an adult... it's ... lacking. In this aspect FF8 has a more grown up story. This is somewhat depicted in the cartoonist avatars of FF7 vs the more anatomic FF8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyeSeeU Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 Yeah, but FF7 did come out when I was a kid so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celerity Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 I think this thread has a lot more important things to talk about than Final Fantasy... Let's not give the staff any reason to ignore the good parts of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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