2??!?!
Jeez, 1 of those would be too much, and you wanna let them pick 2? :eek:
Seriously, you are joking, right?
Uhh. no offense. That is not constructive at all. WHY is it too much? What would a human/halfelf with 2 of those traits be better at then any alternative race/class combo? Ogre ranger vs. Human ranger? Halfer blademaster vs. human blademaster? Faerie invoker vs. Human invoker? I honestly cannot think of a combo with human that I wouldn't be better off having an alternative race.
Humans have their advantages already: no exp penalty' date=' no vulns, greater effects of magic.[/quote']
No exp penalty is irrelevant, once you get to 50 it won't matter anyway.
No vuln, meh, the other races with vulns have such good perks that with some experience you can learn to minimize your vulns.
The greater effects of magic are minimal as well since they dont seem to effect cast spells, but things like vials.
I honestly cannot think of a combo with human that I wouldn't be better off having an alternative race.
Which is exactly why the humans don't have exp penalties and the other races do.
EDIT:
No exp penalty is irrelevant' date=' once you get to 50 it won't matter anyway.[/quote']
Except that it has been said many times by the staff that yes, exp penalty is part of how races/classes are balanced. The game does not start at 50.
EDIT 2: You seem to be missing the basic point. Humans don't have anything very special... and THAT IS THE POINT OF THE RACE. Humans are the "average" race that can be anything. They aren't specialized at all, and they aren't MEANT to be specialized at all.
Uhh. no offense. That is not constructive at all. WHY is it too much? What would a human/halfelf with 2 of those traits be better at then any alternative race/class combo? Ogre ranger vs. Human ranger? Halfer blademaster vs. human blademaster? Faerie invoker vs. Human invoker? I honestly cannot think of a combo with human that I wouldn't be better off having an alternative race.
No offense taken, but have you looked at some of the traits you are suggesting?
25 Dex? Magic resistance? Doublesheath? That can SERIOUSLY unbalance some combos.
Lets take a monk with magic resitance and 25 dex. Good luck killing that.
I can even see a bard being overpowered here. Yep, you read right, a bard. Doublesheath + 25 dex.
Ranger you say? 25 dex + magic resistance again.
Human invoker? I will take pracs from 1 session and 25 dex.
Blademaster? Magic resistance and 25 dex again. I will eat you halfer.
What else? Cleric perhaps? Oh my...
PS. Don't forget that those beasts will be able to reach down to rank 42.
EDIT:
Except that it has been said many times by the staff that yes, exp penalty is part of how races/classes are balanced. The game does not start at 50.
EDIT 2: You seem to be missing the basic point. Humans don't have anything very special... and THAT IS THE POINT OF THE RACE. Humans are the "average" race that can be anything. They aren't specialized at all, and they aren't MEANT to be specialized at all.
Which relegates Humans to be nothing more than a beginner race. Good at nothing, compared to other races. Rarely played at 50(and generally at a disadvantage) and not as prolific as our fantasy game dictates. If this is the goal of the admins, so be it, they achieve it.
No offense taken, but have you looked at some of the traits you are suggesting?
25 Dex? Magic resistance? Doublesheath? That can SERIOUSLY unbalance some combos.
Lets take a monk with magic resitance and 25 dex. Good luck killing that.
I can even see a bard being overpowered here. Yep, you read right, a bard. Doublesheath + 25 dex.
Ranger you say? 25 dex + magic resistance again.
Human invoker? I will take pracs from 1 session and 25 dex.
Blademaster? Magic resistance and 25 dex again. I will eat you halfer.
What else? Cleric perhaps? Oh my...
PS. Don't forget that those beasts will be able to reach down to rank 42.
You misunderstood my post, please read again. The 25 dex is ONLY for armor mods. A monk will still have 21 dex, but his armor class will be enhanced to the level of a high dex race. I repeat, the original statistic stays the same, but all they get is an AC bonus. Again, 25 dex was just a proposition. We can make it 24 dex like drow, or even 23 dex like elves.
It seems your main qualms are with the magic resist, fine, let's change it, but don't be a chump and rag on the whole idea. Seriously, add an alternative. I propsed we can make it a weaker version. A halfer blademaster would still be better than a human with magic resist and the armor class mod.
The learning things in 1 prac skill is no big deal I think. Anyone can train from 1 prac and smart races learn in 1 prac anyway.
Why should a human invoker go through tedious work just to get the same hp and mana as an elf invoker? Does it make the game more enjoyable, I don't think so. And the elf still has MORE advantages.
Maybe english isn't your first language, so please read more carefully what I am saying.
You misunderstood my post' date=' please read again. The 25 dex is ONLY for armor mods. A monk will still have 21 dex, but his armor class will be enhanced to the level of a high dex race. I repeat, the original statistic stays the same, [u']but all they get is an AC bonus. Again, 25 dex was just a proposition. We can make it 24 dex like drow, or even 23 dex like elves.
It seems your main qualms are with the magic resist, fine, let's change it, but don't be a chump and rag on the whole idea. Seriously, add an alternative. I propsed we can make it a weaker version. A halfer blademaster would still be better than a human with magic resist and the armor class mod.
The learning things in 1 prac skill is no big deal I think. Anyone can train from 1 prac and smart races learn in 1 prac anyway.
Why should a human invoker go through tedious work just to get the same hp and mana as an elf invoker? Does it make the game more enjoyable, I don't think so. And the elf still has MORE advantages.
Maybe english isn't your first language, so please read more carefully what I am saying.
Hm... well you are right, I did misunderstand your original post. Overall I like the idea, but it needs tweaking AND 2 traits is too much, no matter how you look at it.
So Wage. You converted me. I like the essence of this idea but the perks would need tweaking.
How are you going to balance this with monks? Obviously this would give monks an edge they don't need. What about DKs?
A possible solution is that they don't pick these at creation (Which can already be complicated enough for a new comer) let these perks be given through quests. It could easily not allow monks or other certain classes(like Adventurer) partake in the quests.
These quests would add much RP value to the race and they could be hidden and scattered, encouraging exploration.
umm. no matter how you look at it.. humans are a building block race. they have nothing special. no tricks. no gimmics. that is how they were designed. you have to have a race with nothing to give meaning to the races with something, if you catch what im saying. the only thing that giving humans anything extra would do... is lower the experience penalty of every other race. why? obvious. because xp penalties are a marker for how strong the stats and abilities possessed by that race are in relation to races without them. namely human. you see? giving humans anything defeats the entire purpose.
the things that you are mentioning are things covered with perks too. increased size, nimble, (maybe not 1 practice trains, but lets face it, thats lolwtfpwnage). i would suggest if anythingseperate perks into two categories. say, physical and psychological/spiritual. an either...
get one from each category if half elf
get two from either category (or one from each if you desire)
as said before, humans are a building block race. they arent going to be as strong. thats how its supposed to be.
you have that backwards dale.
Humans get better magic effects from consumables only.
Don't make me prove it...
Having played 42209843280921-09438120983401239324198423 level 30 app rejects, you of all people should know that humans do get this bonus.
Come on cycling pants. You know what I say is true.
I just know that my elf gets a larger bonus from vials than any body else I have ever played. I don't know about any other artifact.
And I've only had 2 rejections, a demon warrior and my avatar elf cleric.
So Wage. You converted me. I like the essence of this idea but the perks would need tweaking.
How are you going to balance this with monks? Obviously this would give monks an edge they don't need. What about DKs?
A possible solution is that they don't pick these at creation (Which can already be complicated enough for a new comer) let these perks be given through quests. It could easily not allow monks or other certain classes(like Adventurer) partake in the quests.
These quests would add much RP value to the race and they could be hidden and scattered, encouraging exploration.
Sorry for the delay, trying to respond when I get the chance.
I really like the idea of making these traits questable. Maybe make quest mobs spawn randomly around the game world and when a human approaches them they ask for help. After doing a few tasks for them, the mob gives you a "You have successfully aided in . You have become !".
You can make it even more interesting by just making a single random quest mob spawn during each shift, making finding these quests mobs a kind of easter egg hunt.
As to monks and DK's being over powered, I still don't see it. Monks are not the most powerful of classes out there, and DK's well, I can't say much about DK's because I have no idea how they play now with all those changes. Of course, if it has to be done, we can just make them unable to get the traits.
Avatars should lose the traits upon becoming an avatar and the same can go for demons. (though undead(non-vamps) could use these since they seem underpowered as is)
Undead are not underpowered, they are just underplayed. 
Undead are not underpowered' date=' they are just underplayed.
Agreed. Certain combos, as undead, are incredibly strong... undead monk, for instance, is probably the ideal lag machine.
Agreed. Since when were undead underpowered? News to me. Might have to make one and see...add it to my list of projects. Have enough at the moment though.
Well ok, I dont have much experience with undead other than having an insanely easy time of killing them.
The fact that there haven't been any decent undeads these days is kind of telling of their power potential. They have a lot of issues that make playing them at 50 a pain.
I wish my undead blm would not have gotten zrothumed because I am a retard 
Well ok, I dont have much experience with undead other than having an insanely easy time of killing them.
The fact that there haven't been any decent undeads these days is kind of telling of their power potential. They have a lot of issues that make playing them at 50 a pain. You see less and less undeads(MoP
) around because experienced players don't typically make them.
Why? Because they make Vampires, Liches, Psionicists, etc.
Not to say they don't make them at all, but they're relatively mundane in the "undead" world. Many players would rather get the more exciting (and more powerful) vamp/undead.
Though I always did want an Undead DK since my newbie days. Though Mephisoleer took that away from me. So I probably won't make one any time soon.
Yeah, at the same time, vamps come with even more weaknesses then undead, and with all the same weaknesses as well. Though possibly powerful (I don't really know what makes them powerful, their skill set doesn't exactly scream it, must just need the right hands). Certainly not for the faint hearted.
