Minotaur Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 had my undead app denied, apparently undead don't kill vampires. Fun times in nooby land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeva Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 keep at it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 had my undead app denied' date=' apparently undead don't kill vampires. Fun times in nooby land.[/quote'] Just in case you're wondering why... undead/vampires in FL are both avatars of the Death deity. They are chosen to serve that god. That god will not want his chosen servants to be killing each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aulian Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 My vampire, Armagoth, killed Vlad and Talex repeatedly... Oops. Fully my bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mya Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Just in case you're wondering why... undead/vampires in FL are both avatars of the Death deity. They are chosen to serve that god. That god will not want his chosen servants to be killing each other. Which creates a oximoron. Cycle is about perpetuating Death, the Flow of the Cycle from Live to Death. But their Avatars (undeads) elude death. IT took playng Neverwinter nights to notice this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNewGuy Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 They are already dead, Mya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minotaur Posted January 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Just in case you're wondering why... undead/vampires in FL are both avatars of the Death deity. They are chosen to serve that god. That god will not want his chosen servants to be killing each other. i can see why they denied it, but just kinda wish this stuff was out there for people like me, no harm done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 My vampire, Armagoth, killed Vlad and Talex repeatedly... Oops. Fully my bad. Mobs I think are fine. EDIT: Potential RP reason... not all undead are direct chosen creations of the Death deities, but all PLAYER undead are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minotaur Posted January 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Mobs I think are fine. EDIT: Potential RP reason... not all undead are direct chosen creations of the Death deities' date=' but all PLAYER undead are.[/quote'] mine was denied because i was killing the vampires west of valmiran. I honestly didn't know that evil chaotic undeads would care about killing anything that didnt directly serve under them. If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem, if you are not my friend you are my enemy, and those vampires were certainly not my friend, nor part of my RP... so i guess its all perspective from there. Either way i think it still sucks that i put three hours into a story and description only to make the character a dud. I really wish these kinds of things were selectable at character creation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-A Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 I really wish these kinds of things were selectable at character creation. They are rewards for a reason - that is, you actually have to put some effort into getting one rather than just waking up one morning and deciding 'Hey, I'd like a vampire/undead today.' This is not a bad thing - nor is making you play and gain some game experience before you one. L-A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-A Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Mobs I think are fine. EDIT: Potential RP reason... not all undead are direct chosen creations of the Death deities' date=' but all PLAYER undead are.[/quote'] I didn't think they were - I know players who were outright told not to kill undead of any kind when they were undeads/vampires. It could very well depend on the Imm..... L-A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minotaur Posted January 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 I didn't think they were - I know players who were outright told not to kill undead of any kind when they were undeads/vampires. It could very well depend on the Imm..... L-A malcheius (sp?) was the one who denied it, he was pretty clear that ALL undead are pretty much family. No undead of any kind should kill any undead of any kind. This is what i got from the note i was sent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
English lad Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Vamp killing a regular undead is one thing, undead killing vamps is different. In my mind at least there is a hierarchy of undeath, with Liches at the top, then Vamps, regular undead below them and i guess mindless stuff like zombies at the bottom. At least that was my take on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H&R Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Vamp killing a regular undead is one thing' date=' undead killing vamps is different. In my mind at least there is a hierarchy of undeath, with Liches at the top, then Vamps, regular undead below them and i guess mindless stuff like zombies at the bottom. At least that was my take on it.[/quote'] Then we have the low level gnomes, faeries and halflings dominating vamps in the tomb in ranking groups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 I didn't think they were - I know players who were outright told not to kill undead of any kind when they were undeads/vampires. It could very well depend on the Imm..... L-A Fair enough. My last undead was a Trib, which all the other undeads of the time hated, so I had some inter-undead crap to deal with either way, and the one before that was during the period where the restriction was completely removed. If modern undeads can't be fighting other undeads/vamps period, that's cool by me... though, it would be helpful if some of these things were more explicitly stated for newer players who aren't aware of such unspoken rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNewGuy Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Maybe add it to the helpfile. Everyone *should* read the help file for said race before they apply for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Anume Posted January 15, 2008 Implementor Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 It's funny how you were given several reasons as to why you did not get a class - align - race combi that you usually can't have and now come to the forum with a tiny part of it. If you really did not understand why it was rejected, read up on the reasons given again. If you have a problem with it, put it on prayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudder Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 I was going to talk about how Sirican repeatedly killed Talex/Vlad/Soulreaver, etc. Though Eshaine's post seems to shed some light on the situation and it makes a lot more sense. Though out of curiosity, is a Vamp wanna-bee looked down upon if he kills undead mobs? What about an already Undead/Vamp/Lich killing undead mobs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minotaur Posted January 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 It's funny how you were given several reasons as to why you did not get a class - align - race combi that you usually can't have and now come to the forum with a tiny part of it. If you really did not understand why it was rejected, read up on the reasons given again. If you have a problem with it, put it on prayer. All of the reasons were: you must apply for a seperate race/align/religion each separately, and tribunal doesn't have treants, ( got the cabals mixed up in my app.) and finally i shouldn't be killing vampires if i want to app for undead. is an undead bard really that big of a threat to the balance of the game?!? Not to be rude but im not going to write 1 undead app, one evil app, and one religion app, plus a description just for one character, thats alot of apps. I thought i pretty much covered it as well as i could in the app, im not the best writer, an I'm not that fluent on the rules. The fact that I'm constantly talked down on like I'm a moron for posting about things is a bit ridiculous though. If you really want new players you should probably treat them a little better, sorry to hurt your pride, but you wont have to worry about new players expressing their views if they don't stick around, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudder Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Minotaur, chill dude. From Eshaine's perspective it looked like you got denied and decided to go for sympathy votes on the forum and not tell the whole story, making them look bad. A lot of miscommunication it looks like. I know the Imms here, they wouldn't intentionally talk down to anyone let alone a new player. Though if you do have a problem with them or what they do, take it to the prayer forum. Otherwise their responses will just be negative. It's policy that you apply for each thing individually. They don't always have to be big or awesome (Unless it is a quest application), but they need to be decent. Also, if you want to turn undead why not choose the correct alignment and religion from the start? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minotaur Posted January 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Minotaur, chill dude. From Eshaine's perspective it looked like you got denied and decided to go for sympathy votes on the forum and not tell the whole story, making them look bad. A lot of miscommunication it looks like. I know the Imms here, they wouldn't intentionally talk down to anyone let alone a new player. Though if you do have a problem with them or what they do, take it to the prayer forum. Otherwise their responses will just be negative. It's policy that you apply for each thing individually. They don't always have to be big or awesome (Unless it is a quest application), but they need to be decent. Also, if you want to turn undead why not choose the correct alignment and religion from the start? align not available, religion not available... and this is as a human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-A Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 I'm not renowed for my 'soft touch' when it comes to the forum, but I'll try to put this nicely: No one minds you being here or being a new player. However, if you want to play this game there are rules and conventions that must be abided by - just like any other game. Complaining will not change this reality. On the subject of multiple applications - well guess what, if you don't want to write more than one app then get used to NOT getting your own way. Furthermore, acting like a spoilt brat on the forum (which is how you are coming across to me) isn't going to get you what you want either. I've been here a number of years and I've seen players act like this before. They either changed their attitude or are long gone. Ask some of the other long term players if you don't believe me..... L-A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-A Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 You're gonig to find undead bards aren't allowed more through RP I believe. To be honest, evil bards are not allowed due to the nature of the bard class AND the nature of evils. As far as I know, its not a balance issue. You may be able to get one but it will be a lot of work.... L-A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudder Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 We've had a Demon bard in the past, though that was an RP event and was also a lot of work. Though, L-A is right. If you want something special, get ready to work your butt off for it. AND, 3 hours in total writing apps? How long did you wait before you received a response? This whole process seems pretty quick to me, compared to what most people experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minotaur Posted January 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 I'm not renowed for my 'soft touch' when it comes to the forum, but I'll try to put this nicely: No one minds you being here or being a new player. However, if you want to play this game there are rules and conventions that must be abided by - just like any other game. Complaining will not change this reality. On the subject of multiple applications - well guess what, if you don't want to write more than one app then get used to NOT getting your own way. Furthermore, acting like a spoilt brat on the forum (which is how you are coming across to me) isn't going to get you what you want either. I've been here a number of years and I've seen players act like this before. They either changed their attitude or are long gone. Ask some of the other long term players if you don't believe me..... L-A Qrace restrings are another classic example. Although getting a restring isn’t even comparable to getting a clan in terms of difficulty, it’s still a much more cumbersome process than is necessary, with applications often sitting for days, and occasionally for weeks. Why? Someone is trying to RP something different, trying to bring something fresh. So long as the RP fits within FL and their description, why don’t we just give it to them as a matter of course, instead of whether or not they ‘deserve’ it? It only takes us seconds! The same is true of non-standard ‘custom’ combos (ie, evil bards, neutral clerics, etc.). We gimp the hell out of them, even when there is no balance reason to, assuming we even grant them. Why? Is it truly necessary? Nowadays, knowing this, the vast majority of players don’t even try to go for one. Is this truly something which improves the MUD? I’m inclined to say no. IMM’s, in terms of administration, are approaching these things in a totally wrong way. We have assigned ourselves the wrong role, in handing out these RP-related tools. Instead of treating ourselves as gardeners, who are supposed to nurture and grow the plants in our garden, we have situated ourselves as treasury guardians, grudgingly doling out little pieces of treasure, here and there, when we feel that the player has shown they ‘want it enough’ and pass our ‘tests’. We need to do everything in our power to attract, but more importantly, retain new players. If the cost is to lose a few veterans who are more interested in maintaining their own advantage than the health of the MUD, then I think the trade off is worth it. Of course, the forum information isn't the only issue; it just happened to be a prominent to me, because of PK logs. If you cool with just booting folks out the door who aren't hardcore, then thats fine. I'm not, I'm not the best at anything and i never will be. I find alot of the time in pk type games you run into the "Get on board, or get out" type. Didn't know or think that would be the case here. Like i said before, sorry to offend, but i think the guy above said it best, so I'll leave it at what he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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